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  1. #16
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    That's the thing though, the RBI doesn't tell you how often they player bat with players on base, what there AVG, OPS is, or even take into account how many batters are on base when you are up to bat.

    If you want something like that than dig deeper and don't rely on a stat that's reliant on your teammates getting on base and their speed.

    The RBI stat doesn't measure clutch.
    You're right that the RBI stat doesn't indicate when hitters hit with runners on base. I guess it's sort of a fill in the blank mentality there. If a player has 100+ RBI it's safe to assume he gets the job done with runners on base more so than the average hitter. Positioning in the order also comes into account. Your 3/4/5 hitters ideally have the most opportunity to drive in runs. Take the Blue Jays for example. Marcus Semien has hit 1 or 2 all year and has 81 XBH for 97 RBI whereas Vlad Jr has hit 3 or 4 all year and has 73 XBH for 105 RBI.

    In the end driving in runs is what wins games for the offence. Yes, there are better stats to indicate how a hitter does individually but I still see a high RBI total as a testament to being a good hitter. Mainly because in order to achieve that total you almost have to be hitting in one of the premier spots in the lineup.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    The funny thing is that you're kind of arguing against your own point here. If hitting with RISP matters more, then shouldn't pitching with RISP matter more? Closers are brought in when the 9th inning begins most of the time, and not at the most crucial part of the game. If a closer is your best pitcher, then he's the guy you should bring in when there are RISP and you need an out to preserve the game, not the guy you bring in at the beginning of an inning when a team's run expectancy is at it's lowest point.
    Hitting with RISP = tense situation
    Closing out games = tense situation

    Preserving a lead that's 3 runs or less in the final inning of a game will always be a tense situation. Sure, there will be moments in the 6th, 7th or 8th where the tying or go ahead run gets on base. It could very well be more tense than the end of the game but closing out a game will always be a tense situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  3. #18
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    Jan 2008
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    Illinois
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    10,595
    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post

    A triple crown should NOT dictate who wins the MVP or the Hank Aaron Award. Blame the people who vote, not an unrelated award.
    Iím with you DaveÖ seems pretty neat to me. Doesnít mean you should necessarily win the MVP but itís still an achievement worth of recognition

  4. #19
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    Oct 2011
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    Eh the triple crown has value imo. If Shohei wasn't a god who beasts both at the plate and on the mound, you could make a legitimate case for Vladimir Guerrero Jr being the AL MVP while leading in 2 of the 3 triple crown categories. He's not going to catch all of the 5 AL players ahead of him in RBIs but its hard to argue how great he has been.

    The funny thing is you could make a case for Vlad even with how good Shohei has been in both departments. His 6.8 fWAR is close enough to Ohtani's 7.5 fWAR (combined for pitching and hitting). Not to mention if the Blue Jays make the playoffs that could sway some voters. The thing is Ohtani's accomplishments are so unique its hard to see anyone else winning AL MVP.

    I don't think the feat is outdated either. Its a very unique offensive accomplishment that is incredibly difficult to pull off. Should it determine who is the MVP? In some years, yeah it should.
    Last edited by metswon69; Yesterday at 11:01 PM.

  5. #20
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    Jun 2004
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    46,429
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Eh the triple crown has value imo. If Shohei wasn't a god who beasts both at the plate and on the mound, you could make a legitimate case for Vladimir Guerrero Jr being the AL MVP and leading in 2 of the 3 triple crown categories. He's not going to catch all of the 5 AL players ahead of him in the RBIs but its hard to argue how great he has been.

    The funny thing is you could make a case for Vlad even with how good Shohei has been in both departments. His 6.8 fWAR is close enough to Ohtani's 7.5 fWAR (combined for pitching and hitting). Not to mention if the Blue Jays make the playoffs that could sway some voters. The thing is Ohtani's accomplishments are so unique its hard to see anyone else winning AL MVP.

    I don't think the award is outdated either. Its a very unique offensive accomplishment that is incredibly difficult to pull off. Should it determine who is the MVP? In some years, yeah it should.
    I had this discussion with a friend the other day. If Ohtani produces like this every year and no player has an otherworldly season, is he the MVP every year, even on a losing team? If he can win the MVP on that trash team, should Soto be getting more recognition?

  6. #21
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    I had this discussion with a friend the other day. If Ohtani produces like this every year and no player has an otherworldly season, is he the MVP every year, even on a losing team? If he can win the MVP on that trash team, should Soto be getting more recognition?
    The thing is if the values are a fraction of a difference, the player who leads his team to the playoffs or close to it is probably going to win. Ohtani's uniqueness will help him with those honors this year but I don't know if that carries over into subsequent seasons unless he really outpaces the rest of the field which is unlikely. Vlad will win a MVP in the next 3 years imo.

    Its really just a 3 horse race in the NL (considering SP almost never win MVP). Its Soto, Harper and Tatis. Harper and Soto are deadlocked in terms of value but Harper and Tatis have had more team success. Harper is going to win but Soto has a legit case. He should get more recognition but there isn't enough of a gap between him and his competition to justify giving him the award when Harper is such a big reason as to why the Phillies can possibly win the NL East.

    That just seems to be how it goes.

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