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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    not just that though tbh... he never won mvp... harper could win 2 and could have 500 plus home runs and 70 war plus... he also could be terrible and fall off a cliff...

    that being said he should win his 2nd mvp this season. He is getting 0 help and the fact people think tatis should get the nod because playoffs is dumb... Tatis has the luxury of seeing pitches
    I don’t think anyone is saying Tatis because of playoffs… heck as of right now they aren’t even in the playoffs.

    Tatis winning over Harper wouldn’t be a Harper snub. I think Tatis deserves it as much.

    Like wolf said, lineup protection is a myth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I don’t think anyone is saying Tatis because of playoffs… heck as of right now they aren’t even in the playoffs.

    Tatis winning over Harper wouldn’t be a Harper snub. I think Tatis deserves it as much.

    Like wolf said, lineup protection is a myth.
    Is it? Just because one player has more pitches in the zone does not mean it's a myth. Perhaps one player is going against significantly worse pitching.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I don’t think anyone is saying Tatis because of playoffs… heck as of right now they aren’t even in the playoffs.

    Tatis winning over Harper wouldn’t be a Harper snub. I think Tatis deserves it as much.

    Like wolf said, lineup protection is a myth.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSA_...ab_channel=MLB


    its def not... not when we are batting Didi behind him at times.

  4. #34
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    Even if you go against the numerous studies that say it is, you CANNOT refute the FACT that Harper sees significantly more pitches in the zone this year than Tatis and just because Joe Maddon publicly declared that he didn't believe Ryan Zimmerman could beat their pitching doesn't prove you right.

    There's also bwar and bsr where Tatis leaves Harper in the dust which you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

    There's also this Corbin Burnes guy who leads all of baseball in fwar and your own guy Zach Wheeler who leads Harper on both war leaderboards as well.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Even if you go against the numerous studies that say it is, you CANNOT refute the FACT that Harper sees significantly more pitches in the zone this year than Tatis and just because Joe Maddon publicly declared that he didn't believe Ryan Zimmerman could beat their pitching doesn't prove you right.

    There's also bwar and bsr where Tatis leaves Harper in the dust which you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

    There's also this Corbin Burnes guy who leads all of baseball in fwar and your own guy Zach Wheeler who leads Harper on both war leaderboards as well.
    If you have a link to any of the numerous studies, I'd love to read up on it. TIA
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Is it? Just because one player has more pitches in the zone does not mean it's a myth. Perhaps one player is going against significantly worse pitching.
    Maybe not a myth and I could believe batters are pitched to differently but more so because of the type of hitter they are opposed to the surrounding hitters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSA_...ab_channel=MLB


    its def not... not when we are batting Didi behind him at times.
    So the pitchers save all their meatballs for the players around him?

    I think pitchers just pitch to players differently based on this individual batters skills more so than who’s around them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    If you have a link to any of the numerous studies, I'd love to read up on it. TIA
    Just Google lineup protection in baseball. They are aplenty.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    So the pitchers save all their meatballs for the players around him?

    I think pitchers just pitch to players differently based on this individual batters skills more so than who’s around them.

    While I do think protection in baseball is greatly exaggerated, I don't necessarily think it's a Myth.


    I'll give you 2 examples.

    Both examples in the bottom of the 9th, tie game.

    Example 1

    1. Upper HOF Hitter comes up such as Bonds, Ruth etc.

    2. The next Hitter is a below average hitter


    Example 2

    1. Manny Ramirez

    2. David Ortiz


    In example 1, player 1 has a high chance of being walked (and usually sluggers are not great on the basepaths) due to Player 2 likely being an easy out or better yet, a double play. Player 1 is more a threat getting to 2nd or worse a walk off home run.

    In example 2, Player 1 is much less likely to be walked and will probably be pitched to as Ortiz himself can not only do a walk off home run but also can get Manny to third base by a hit or better yet, to home plate with a double.
    Until they prove the fans wrong again


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Maybe not a myth and I could believe batters are pitched to differently but more so because of the type of hitter they are opposed to the surrounding hitters.
    I am just wondering if perhaps the best pitchers aren't always facing the guys like Tatis/Harper
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Just Google lineup protection in baseball. They are aplenty.
    Got one you can recommend? I ask as you said there are plenty and I have a feeling any problems with said studies you'll counter with a bad source.
    My Ignore List: bklynny67, nastynice, OhSoSlick, spliff(TONE), zmaster52

  12. #42
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    last 30 games

    harper 104 at bats/22 runs/36 hits/11HR/27RBI/24walks 346/457/760

    tatis 112 at bats/17 runs/31 hits/8HR/23RBI/13 walks 277/362/580

    sorry i dont know what to tell you if you think tatis is seeing better pitches. Harper has had an insanely low number of men on base all while hitting 350 against the fastball... the phillies as a team are last in baseball against the fastball this season even though he is destroying them. Once Hoskins went down and JT got hurt harper was ****ed. We are putting brad miller/didi/mccutchen behind him the majority of the time.... look at that compared to what is protecting tatis on top of the guys that get on in front of tatis compared to harper. Why would you pitch to a guy that has nobody on base in front of him and trash behind him? sorry your metrics dont tell the story

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Shut up with this ****. I already showed you that he sees 2% more pitches in the zone than Tatis but you ignored that entire post. These things are tracked, you know? Only 4 hitters see less pitches in the zone than Tatis, who's also possibly going to steal 30 bases while playing the most demanding position on the field.

    TBH Harper will probably finish 3rd behind Burnes.
    Tatis Catches? he's in the OF now and wasn't a particularly good SS when he was playing that position.

  14. #44
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    He sees MORE STRIKES. Sorry if you don't watch every AB in baseball like those confusing metrics do.

    Harper and Tatis are having comparable offensive seasons. The Phillies and the Padres are almost neck and neck in offensive production. Stop with this nonsense that the Padres are running some kind of murderers row out there every night. The teams are 16th and 17th in wRC+.

    And don't you believe bwar and bsr should count for something? Tatis has twice as many steals and has produced 10 runs above the average player on the paths. That's huge.

    You basically should be arguing who's the best hitter in the NL.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    Tatis Catches? he's in the OF now and wasn't a particularly good SS when he was playing that position.
    Oh jeez, he only played 80% of the year at SS. And I guarantee you he played better there than Harper would. And now he's playing better in the OF than Harper is. Who woulda thunk.

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