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  1. #166
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    I did a little looking regarding Mimms.

    “There were six or seven plays in training camp where he ran the wrong route. It wasn’t dramatically wrong, not a total bust, but slight imperfections in his route running that caused the coaching staff to get on him. I don’t think he handled it well and he feels like he is being penalized for mistakes that some of the other receivers are making as well”

    “He wasn’t our starter going into [Week 1] and when you’re not a starter, this whole league, you have to have versatility within the different positions,” LaFleur said.

    Saleh on Mimms-
    “You roll with your top three guys and if they need a break, that’s where the other guy’s step in. Mims, he’s been doing a good job getting himself a little bit better every day but, he’s got to know, when you’re not one of the main guys, you got to know all three spots and you’ve got to know it at a high level so you can step in and take advantage of all those opportunities.So, if the Z, the F or the X needs a break, you’re the first one that goes in because you know all three spots, you can execute at a high level and you can roll.”

    Corey Davis on Mimms

    “Mims is really talented man, it’s really up to him, coming out here and doing the work every single day. The grind gets hard, it’s tough at times, even for me there are days I don’t want to come out here, but in order to get better you’ve got to do the things you don’t want to do. So for him it’s just that mental block and pushing past that, because he has all the physical attributes, mentally, I think that’s where his battle is”


    It sounds to me like his work ethic has a question mark. His ability to be coached has a question mark.
    His ability to adapt has a question mark. Question mars aren't a negative. They are just an unknown.

    Mimms isn't a starter right now, so he needs to learn all three spots. He's not doing that to the standards these coaches want. I find zero wrong with making him work. If other guys are outworking him and know the system and the routes better than he does, they should play and he should watch.

    Would guys who want him on the field rather the coaches put him out there just because he was a talented, second round pick? Or do you want your players to be accountable and work to earn their way?
    Remember, this is a young team trying to build an identity. To build that, people have to be accountable.

    I have zero issue with Mimms being asked to work harder and play better.



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  2. #167
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    I have a problem of where this is heading

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I did a little looking regarding Mimms.

    “There were six or seven plays in training camp where he ran the wrong route. It wasn’t dramatically wrong, not a total bust, but slight imperfections in his route running that caused the coaching staff to get on him. I don’t think he handled it well and he feels like he is being penalized for mistakes that some of the other receivers are making as well”

    “He wasn’t our starter going into [Week 1] and when you’re not a starter, this whole league, you have to have versatility within the different positions,” LaFleur said.

    Saleh on Mimms-
    “You roll with your top three guys and if they need a break, that’s where the other guy’s step in. Mims, he’s been doing a good job getting himself a little bit better every day but, he’s got to know, when you’re not one of the main guys, you got to know all three spots and you’ve got to know it at a high level so you can step in and take advantage of all those opportunities.So, if the Z, the F or the X needs a break, you’re the first one that goes in because you know all three spots, you can execute at a high level and you can roll.”

    Corey Davis on Mimms

    “Mims is really talented man, it’s really up to him, coming out here and doing the work every single day. The grind gets hard, it’s tough at times, even for me there are days I don’t want to come out here, but in order to get better you’ve got to do the things you don’t want to do. So for him it’s just that mental block and pushing past that, because he has all the physical attributes, mentally, I think that’s where his battle is”


    It sounds to me like his work ethic has a question mark. His ability to be coached has a question mark.
    His ability to adapt has a question mark. Question mars aren't a negative. They are just an unknown.

    Mimms isn't a starter right now, so he needs to learn all three spots. He's not doing that to the standards these coaches want. I find zero wrong with making him work. If other guys are outworking him and know the system and the routes better than he does, they should play and he should watch.

    Would guys who want him on the field rather the coaches put him out there just because he was a talented, second round pick? Or do you want your players to be accountable and work to earn their way?
    Remember, this is a young team trying to build an identity. To build that, people have to be accountable.

    I have zero issue with Mimms being asked to work harder and play better.
    I've already outlined the worst-case scenario.

    So how does this coaching staff avoid that, because we are certainly headed in that direction?

    Mims is the young guy in the room who needs some guidance.

    LeFleur and Saleh are supposedly the adults in the room who need to not pissaway a talented high draft pick. The adults need to make this right. As of now, all I see is them making this wrong and ending up with a marginal discard on the club rather than a likely stud. I'm not excusing them for their coaching inexperience. We don't need them learning the hard way on the job by stepping over talent due to their naivety.

    They've already got Mims one foot out the door. I also see it as a big red flag that what appears to be something fairly minor is blowing up into a major stink. There are better ways of handling this than all but giving up on Mims and then making bull-- excuses to the press. Good coaches need to figure out a way to get the top talents to produce without making a mess of it. Right now LeFleur has turned a small issue with a big talent into Braxton Berrios.

    At this point I'd rather lose LeFleur than Mims. LeFleur has shown us nothing so far. Maybe he can coach. but he's off to a pretty bad start. Not only that, he hasn't shown any skill in handling his top talent. Any schlock can go kick guys to the curb at the drop of a hat. Doesn't seem like a sustainable policy to me - running top talent off of the roster.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    I've already outlined the worst-case scenario.

    So how does this coaching staff avoid that, because we are certainly headed in that direction?

    Mims is the young guy in the room who needs some guidance.

    LeFleur and Saleh are supposedly the adults in the room who need to not pissaway a talented high draft pick. The adults need to make this right. As of now, all I see is them making this wrong and ending up with a marginal discard on the club rather than a likely stud. I'm not excusing them for their coaching inexperience. We don't need them learning the hard way on the job by stepping over talent due to their naivety.

    They've already got Mims one foot out the door. I also see it as a big red flag that what appears to be something fairly minor is blowing up into a major stink. There are better ways of handling this than all but giving up on Mims and then making bull-- excuses to the press. Good coaches need to figure out a way to get the top talents to produce without making a mess of it. Right now LeFleur has turned a small issue with a big talent into Braxton Berrios.

    At this point I'd rather lose LeFleur than Mims. LeFleur has shown us nothing so far. Maybe he can coach. but he's off to a pretty bad start. Not only that, he hasn't shown any skill in handling his top talent. Any schlock can go kick guys to the curb at the drop of a hat. Doesn't seem like a sustainable policy to me - running top talent off of the roster.
    Look, if there were multiple players sticking up for Mimms or voicing any sort of unhappiness with this coaching staff, I would agree.
    What if Mimms is just not a good fit? What if Mimms is a head case?

    What if Mimms was given specific things to learn and asked to perfect them and he hasn't made the effort to do so?
    Corey Davis's comments lead me to think that Mimms may not like to put in the work he needs to put in, in order to get a starting job.

    Maybe this staff is just pushing a young, talent player, more than he has been. I find zero wrong with that. I applaud a coaching staff for doing that. I applaud a coaching staff for holding players accountable.

    I find it odd that you are ready to throw an entire staff under the bus because of a disgruntled, second year, player. I find it odd that because that player is unhappy, you think the entire staff is doing something wrong.
    You spoke of maximizing talent? Expecting a guy to put in the work to be the best he can be, is maximizing talent. Saying, ok, we will just use you like this, so you don't have to work hard, would be the opposite.
    How can you justify as a coach, the entire team working hard to get better, while you play a guy who doesn't because of his draft status?
    I agree with your comment about it but it's a two way street. If a player is unwilling to maximize his own abilities why should he be afforded playing time?

    I don't think they have handled this badly or made any BS excuse. They straight up said, he needs to learn to do certain things to earn playing time. There is no BS in that. BS would be, "well we will see, we should try to get him more involved... he's a little behind after being sick... he needs more reps with ZW..."
    They straight up said, he has to work harder. I don't think there is a comment that has less BS than that.
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 09-17-2021 at 09:41 AM.



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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    It’s pretty funny in prior years, fans complained about the less talented players being out there because of their salary or draft status or coach’s pet. Now they’re not out there and we’re complaining again

    I think Mims is disciplinary, as in not doing it the Saleh way (i.e. not being prepared to play all 3 WR positions). I don’t like it because I believe Mims can be really good, but I can respect Saleh wanting his players doing things the way he wants. I think Mims will be gone soon

    Moses I’m lost on. My only thought is they felt Fant could handle the Carolina speed better than Moses. Clearly they were wrong because Fant was abused in the first half
    I also think that when building a culture in a young team, you can't afford to let guys slide. Especially when you hear about the work ethics of Davis, Crowder, Cole, Moore, Berrios.

    With Gase, it was his way in the sense that he knew better. With Saleh, I feel like his way is all effort based and if you show it, you will be rewarded. I agree with you, I think Mimms probably came in presuming he was a starter. He isn't. What he does about it is up to him. I am fairly certain that the staff would love him to show up and work. I think he will be given opportunity to do that.
    You may be right and he may be gone. He may be a great WR for another team.
    To me, Oh well. It happens.
    I still think you give the coaches the shot to build this. I thought Gase should have the shot and I detested that hiring from the start.

    Moses? I think they wanted to roll with a certain crew before using him. But he wasn't the only one getting owned by that speed. It's his job now.


    I think this staff deserves more than a game. lol



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  5. #170
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    We're Speaking in `hypotheticals Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Look, if there were multiple players sticking up for Mimms or voicing any sort of unhappiness with this coaching staff, I would agree.
    What if Mimms is just not a good fit? What if Mimms is a head case?

    What if Mimms was given specific things to learn and asked to perfect them and he hasn't made the effort to do so?
    Corey Davis's comments lead me to think that Mimms may not like to put in the work he needs to put in, in order to get a starting job.

    Maybe this staff is just pushing a young, talent player, more than he has been. I find zero wrong with that. I applaud a coaching staff for doing that. I applaud a coaching staff for holding players accountable.

    I find it odd that you are ready to throw an entire staff under the bus because of a disgruntled, second year, player. I find it odd that because that player is unhappy, you think the entire staff is doing something wrong.
    You spoke of maximizing talent? Expecting a guy to put in the work to be the best he can be, is maximizing talent. Saying, ok, we will just use you like this, so you don't have to work hard, would be the opposite.
    How can you justify as a coach, the entire team working hard to get better, while you play a guy who doesn't because of his draft status?
    I agree with your comment about it but it's a two way street. If a player is unwilling to maximize his own abilities why should he be afforded playing time?

    I don't think they have handled this badly or made any BS excuse. They straight up said, he needs to learn to do certain things to earn playing time. There is no BS in that. BS would be, "well we will see, we should try to get him more involved... he's a little behind after being sick... he needs more reps with ZW..."
    They straight up said, he has to work harder. I don't think there is a comment that has less BS than that.
    This is all conjecture.
    It's only the first game and I'm probably just way overreacting.

    On the other hand, maybe not.
    I find it curious how sports fans knee-jerk reaction is to support whatever management says and never support the players in things like this.

    In sports fans eyes, It must be the authority figures that are right and the lowly player that must be the bad guy. Weird psychology I've noticed with fans.

    Given the `jets management's long history of screwing things up and being totally wrong, one would think that fans would be a bit skeptical of the latest coaches to come down the pike.

    I see a couple of neophyte managers stomping around like a bull in a china shop. Fans don't want to give a young, immature player a pass, but they seem all too willing to give management a pass - until the day comes when the damage that's been done is too expensive to ignore. Let's not be enablers.

    Like I said, it's early and I could be wrong, but on the other hand, we're seeing some red flags from these two and it's only week one

  6. #171
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    Week 1: NYJ @ The Darnolds

    Personally I feel like Mims should be one of our Top 3 guys. He fits perfectly opposite Davis. Put Crowder and Moore in the slot. Moore and Berrios should be a fill-in guys, not Mims. Mims is best working on the outside and making big plays downfield.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Personally I feel like Mims should be one of our Top 3 guys. He fits perfectly opposite Davis. Put Crowder and Moore in the slot. Moore and Berrios should be a fill-in guys, not Mims. Mims is best working on the outside and making big plays downfield.

    Stuna!

    100%.

    The crux of my argument is and was, do you still want him handed the job if he isn't doing what the coaches ask and expect him to do, to become the best player he can?
    I think it's a great test for him. I hope he succeeds because if he does, he's not only earned it but he's also bough into what they are selling and that makes the Jets a better team.

    They commented on reliability. Maybe Mims isn't giving that to the young QB? Running the route even a bit off, not aggressively catching the ball.

    These were the knocks on him. The bolded to me, have a theme behind them, lack of effort. They can all be improved by working on them.

    Lacks release quickness to slide past press jam
    Early push upfield is dull and lacks urgency
    Slow gather and break from a normal stride
    Routes lack focus and salesmanship
    Too tall into stems, with modest burst coming out
    Competitive nature is lacking in many phases
    Allows coverage to crowd routes and contest catches
    Needs to become more physical at the top of his route
    Despite size, gets bullied at the catch point
    History of drops and poor success rate on contested catches

    There is no doubt the kid has a ton of talent. Hopefully over the next few weeks, he gets into a groove.
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 09-18-2021 at 07:52 AM.



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  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    This is all conjecture.
    It's only the first game and I'm probably just way overreacting.

    On the other hand, maybe not.
    I find it curious how sports fans knee-jerk reaction is to support whatever management says and never support the players in things like this.

    In sports fans eyes, It must be the authority figures that are right and the lowly player that must be the bad guy. Weird psychology I've noticed with fans.

    Given the `jets management's long history of screwing things up and being totally wrong, one would think that fans would be a bit skeptical of the latest coaches to come down the pike.

    I see a couple of neophyte managers stomping around like a bull in a china shop. Fans don't want to give a young, immature player a pass, but they seem all too willing to give management a pass - until the day comes when the damage that's been done is too expensive to ignore. Let's not be enablers.

    Like I said, it's early and I could be wrong, but on the other hand, we're seeing some red flags from these two and it's only week one
    Conjecture by me too, 100%.

    I do see what you are saying. I guess I don't see them as red flags because of Saleh's reputation among players but base on the last two years, anything like that can set off alarms.

    Regarding supporting a player or the staff., I couldn't stand Gase. I don't believe I ever sided with him on a single thing. I wanted to but he was a twat of epic proportions.
    With this situation, my read is simply, they want him to work harder and he hasn't been.
    Maybe there is something to be said for fit and maybe Mims for whatever reason can't find his fit on the team. That would suck but I don't think you can blame either side for that.

    Hopefully all of this is a non issue and he gets good reps tomorrow.
    Last edited by Kinkotheclown; 09-18-2021 at 07:53 AM.



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  9. #174
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    Go Mims!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Conjecture by me too, 100%.

    I do see what you are saying. I guess I don't see them as red flags because of Saleh's reputation among players but base on the last two years, anything like that can set off alarms.

    Regarding supporting a player or the staff., I couldn't stand Gase. I don't believe I ever sided with him on a single thing. I wanted to but he was a twat of epic proportions.
    With this situation, my read is simply, they want him to work harder and he hasn't been.
    Maybe there is something to be said for fit and maybe Mims for whatever reason can't find his fit on the team. That would suck but I don't think you can blame either side for that.

    Hopefully all of this is a non issue and he gets good reps tomorrow.
    Agreed.

    Mims looks like he can be a real playmaker to me and Berrios isn't.
    I'm hoping that they're just giving Mims some tough love and it will all work out soon.
    After watching management fail over and over in New York with the Jets, Knicks and Yankees (not to mention the Mets who I don't root for), I've grown quite skeptical of GMs, managers and coaches around here. At this point, my default position, mainly because it's always accurate, is that the new management team shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt because they never succeed around here. Some people point out the Yankees and Cashman as some sort of success. Considering the Yankees history, resources and the fact they're in the biggest sports market in the world, they've only won one title in twenty years. Why the Yankees have retained a loser like Cashman for the past two decades is a mystery to me. But I digress. I like Douglas, but I don't have a good reason why at the moment. Saleh and LeFleur are going to have to show us something. They haven't yet.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Stuna!

    100%.

    The crux of my argument is and was, do you still want him handed the job if he isn't doing what the coaches ask and expect him to do, to become the best player he can?
    I think it's a great test for him. I hope he succeeds because if he does, he's not only earned it but he's also bough into what they are selling and that makes the Jets a better team.

    They commented on reliability. Maybe Mims isn't giving that to the young QB? Running the route even a bit off, not aggressively catching the ball.

    These were the knocks on him. The bolded to me, have a theme behind them, lack of effort. They can all be improved by working on them.

    Lacks release quickness to slide past press jam
    Early push upfield is dull and lacks urgency
    Slow gather and break from a normal stride
    Routes lack focus and salesmanship
    Too tall into stems, with modest burst coming out
    Competitive nature is lacking in many phases
    Allows coverage to crowd routes and contest catches
    Needs to become more physical at the top of his route
    Despite size, gets bullied at the catch point
    History of drops and poor success rate on contested catches

    There is no doubt the kid has a ton of talent. Hopefully over the next few weeks, he gets into a groove.
    Not sure I agree with all the bold items, but I do agree something is broken and it’s mostly up to Mims to fix it. Saleh gave us a small portion of the problem, but very telling at the same time.

    Bart Scott was very supportive of Mims, calling for Lafleur to maximize his talents. I do agree that coaches need to maximize what you have and I’d like to see Mims out there more

    I’d say 80% Mims, 20% coaching

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    Not sure I agree with all the bold items, but I do agree something is broken and it’s mostly up to Mims to fix it. Saleh gave us a small portion of the problem, but very telling at the same time.

    Bart Scott was very supportive of Mims, calling for Lafleur to maximize his talents. I do agree that coaches need to maximize what you have and I’d like to see Mims out there more

    I’d say 80% Mims, 20% coaching
    I stole those comments from the NFL draft site. . I don't know which I agree with but there is a theme.

    No doubt. It is up to the coaches to get the best out of players. It's also up to the players to two the same.



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  12. #177
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    Blame Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    Not sure I agree with all the bold items, but I do agree something is broken and it’s mostly up to Mims to fix it. Saleh gave us a small portion of the problem, but very telling at the same time.

    Bart Scott was very supportive of Mims, calling for Lafleur to maximize his talents. I do agree that coaches need to maximize what you have and I’d like to see Mims out there more

    I’d say 80% Mims, 20% coaching
    It really doesn't matter what the percentages are.
    If Mims fails, they all fail - and we, as Jets fans, lose in the process.

    It's imperative that Saleh and LaFleur get Mims productive - it's part of their job descriptions, maximize the talent on hand. It's what's best for the organization, certainly in the longer term.
    If Mims is immature, they, as the adults, need to address that and help him man up.

    If this were Parcells and Parcells kicked Mims to the curb, then I would say that Mims was a lost cause. But these guys aren't Parcells. We don't know who they are and with the track record of most coaches that have been foisted upon us not only as Jets fans, but New York sports fans in general, we, as fans, need to put these guys on a short leash. Show, in no uncertain terms, our displeasure at them taking the easy way out and washing their hands of Mims, if that's indeed what they're doing.

    If this were an undrafted free agent, or even a third rounder, I wouldn't be saying this.
    But Mims has big time talent and this, of all organizations, cannot go around squandering that kind of talent. We hardly have any to begin with.

    I thought the Jets may have wanted to keep Darnold and then trade the number 2 overall pick for a bunch of high picks so that the Jets could add some real talent to this talent barren organization.
    I backed off my thoughts because I think Wilson is potentially a lot better than Darnold.

    That being said, it would have been nice to bring in a bunch of young studs into this organization.
    Look around the league, the successful teams all have a bunch of high picks performing at high levels. We don't. And we shouldn't let a couple of neophyte coaches off the hook if they cavalierly toss Mims aside. These guys have got to know that Jet fans will be very unhappy with them if they do and we won't let it go.
    Last edited by ortforshort; 09-23-2021 at 11:30 AM.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortforshort View Post
    It really doesn't matter what the percentages are.
    If Mims fails, they all fail - and we, as Jets fans, lose in the process.

    It's imperative that Saleh and LaFleur get Mims productive - it's part of their job descriptions, maximize the talent on hand. It's what's best for the organization, certainly in the longer term.
    If Mims is immature, they, as the adults, need to address that and help him man up.

    If this were Parcells and Parcells kicked Mims to the curb, then I would say that Mims was a lost cause. But these guys aren't Parcells. We don't know who they are and with the track record of most coaches that have been foisted upon us not only as Jets fans, but New York sports fans in general, we, as fans, need to put these guys on a short leash. Show, in no uncertain terms, our displeasure at them taking the easy way out and washing their hands of Mims, if that's indeed what they're doing.

    If this were an undrafted free agent, or even a third rounder, I wouldn't be saying this.
    But Mims has big time talent and this, of all organizations, cannot go around squandering that kind of talent. We hardly have any to begin with.

    I thought the Jets may have wanted to keep Darnold and then trade the number 2 overall pick for a bunch of high picks so that the Jets could add some real talent to this talent barren organization.
    I backed off my thoughts because I think Wilson is potentially a lot better than Darnold.

    That being said, it would have been nice to bring in a bunch of young studs into this organization.
    Look around the league, the successful teams all have a bunch of high picks performing at high levels. We don't. And we shouldn't let a couple of neophyte coaches off the hook if they cavalierly toss Mims aside. These guys have got to know that Jet fans will be very unhappy with them if they do and we won't let it go.

    The bolded was my first choice.
    They would likely be going into next year with their own, Seattle's and another first and second and the following year have another first and second + another first or second the following year. (I figure that pick was worth 3 first and some seconds and thirds).

    The argument was, the next QB class isn't good. My rebuttal is, so you trade a first next year for a first the following year and you have 3 that year and could easily trade up if needed.

    What's done is done. I hope Wilson is the guy the FO believes him to be. He will need time and patience. That isn't an easy get in the NYC market.



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