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Thread: Education

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Is that actually true for enrollments in the last year? And the fact that women, who make up 20% more college enrollments than men don't choose STEM fields is a very different issue than men choosing to not go to college.

    Medical school has more women than men enrolling for the last 3 years and that I would call a STEM field. Computer engineering enrollment is down in general, but I don't know the gender split there.
    Listen to women's stories in Tech companies and you'll understand why so few choose it.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Listen to women's stories in Tech companies and you'll understand why so few choose it.
    No, that sounds Ike a terrible time


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  3. #18
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    We do need to stop painting this as a men vs women thing though. We can simultaneously try to help men problems and women problems. We dont have to choose one or the other.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Listen to women's stories in Tech companies and you'll understand why so few choose it.
    It's one of those things that is true at every point in the process. Girls are going to choose different things because of environment or nature at every point in their lives. The "toxic environments" have some impact, though anecdotally those same things happen in fields that women do choose at a higher rate like medicine.

    I like that girls are being encouraged from elementary school in STEM areas, but it's going to take a generation to see the effect of it in the outcome.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's one of those things that is true at every point in the process. Girls are going to choose different things because of environment or nature at every point in their lives. The "toxic environments" have some impact, though anecdotally those same things happen in fields that women do choose at a higher rate like medicine.

    I like that girls are being encouraged from elementary school in STEM areas, but it's going to take a generation to see the effect of it in the outcome.
    Anecdotally the toxic environments they experience elsewhere are nowhere near what they experience in the Tech world. Itís not only going to take a generation to see the effect, itís going to take dealing with the pervasive toxic environment in such fields as well.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's one of those things that is true at every point in the process. Girls are going to choose different things because of environment or nature at every point in their lives. The "toxic environments" have some impact, though anecdotally those same things happen in fields that women do choose at a higher rate like medicine.

    I like that girls are being encouraged from elementary school in STEM areas, but it's going to take a generation to see the effect of it in the outcome.
    Anecdotally, I attended an NHS induction ceremony this week and 80+% were females.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Anecdotally the toxic environments they experience elsewhere are nowhere near what they experience in the Tech world. Itís not only going to take a generation to see the effect, itís going to take dealing with the pervasive toxic environment in such fields as well.
    Do you not think the toxic environment is being dealt with already?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Do you not think the toxic environment is being dealt with already?
    Not effectively no. Half of women under 35 will leave their tech jobs. The number 1 reason is no inclusive company culture.

    Do you think the problem has been solved?

  9. #24
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    Scoots,
    Why do you care about the sex breakdown?
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Not effectively no. Half of women under 35 will leave their tech jobs. The number 1 reason is no inclusive company culture.

    Do you think the problem has been solved?
    How do they know 50% of women under 35 WILL leave their tech jobs? I can understand that they DID leave, or that they PROJECT they MAY leave. But WILL is a bit of a stretch.

    What percentage of men under 35 leave their tech jobs?

    When I was in big tech there was no "inclusive company culture" it's a grind that is brutal and demeaning. I (and many of my co-workers) left because the hours were insane, I was underapreciated, and I was being made to do the same thing over and over and over and it was boring. I went to a much smaller company where I could do more and have a larger impact.

    No, but I think it IS being solved, and it's going to take time.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    Scoots,
    Why do you care about the sex breakdown?
    In colleges? Historically when communities populations get twisted significantly to one gender or another it often gets unhealthy.

    Why are men not choosing college at so high a rate?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    How do they know 50% of women under 35 WILL leave their tech jobs? I can understand that they DID leave, or that they PROJECT they MAY leave. But WILL is a bit of a stretch.

    What percentage of men under 35 leave their tech jobs?

    When I was in big tech there was no "inclusive company culture" it's a grind that is brutal and demeaning. I (and many of my co-workers) left because the hours were insane, I was underapreciated, and I was being made to do the same thing over and over and over and it was boring. I went to a much smaller company where I could do more and have a larger impact.

    No, but I think it IS being solved, and it's going to take time.
    The will is because thatís what the data says. So Iím glad you can understand that they DID leave, because thatís what is happening.

    How do you think the problem is being solved? Because I donít believe that for a second.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The will is because thatís what the data says. So Iím glad you can understand that they DID leave, because thatís what is happening.

    How do you think the problem is being solved? Because I donít believe that for a second.
    Yeah but the data also shows that womems highest % in tech jobs was in the 80s.

    I dont doubt that women have hard times in tech. I just doubt that its harder in tech than other jobs.

    And also i feel like you arent including a lot of other advantages women have in the field. Including fast pace gender exclusive programs that get you degrees in 1/4th the time (although these arent constant). They have a MUCH higher rate of getting hired when interviewed.

    Again im not saying woman cant be mistreated but they also have some huge advantages that shouldnt be ignored.

    And i doubt the industry has gotten more sexist since the 80s. And I dont think stats on how women feel when they quit is as solid of data as you are saying.
    Last edited by MRSpock; 09-19-2021 at 12:51 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Lets not go as far as to call college a scam.

    These vocational schools are not just a coincidence in their affordability and earning potentail.

    Truth is we need as many programmers and people to fill tech jobs as possible. You are seeing the same thing with medical. As many community colleges and vocational schools now are adding nursing programs. Its not because "college is a scam" its because these job markets desperately need more labor and it forces companies to be less picky on their hirings.

    The tech industries only bottle neck is skilled labor. While other less needed jobs dont go to trade schools because it would only flood the labor force of that sector.
    I have a friend who is managing a data science department of a major company's logistics division... not because he's the best data scientist it's because, as his boss puts it, "you are the only one I trust to actually talk to people." His educational background was philosophy major, German minor.

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I have a friend who is managing a data science department of a major company's logistics division... not because he's the best data scientist it's because, as his boss puts it, "you are the only one I trust to actually talk to people." His educational background was philosophy major, German minor.
    Thats probably kind of strange though.

    In my experience and others ive talked to. Tech is the hardest job to BS your way into a job. Ive seen guys with masters never make it anywhere. Meanwhile one of my best friends has made it from a 1 year tech certificate to 150k/yr microsoft to Space Ex working with 20 year old prodigies.

    Most competent bosses are going to at one point say "what can you do?" Then "ok show me".

    Again not saying there arent women who get pushed out of a job or are made to feel uncomfortable. Just saying ive never worked at a job where your degree is less important.

    If you can program. If your a problem solver. People will do whatever to accomadate you.

    If you have a masters but cant wipe your *** without having your hand held? Youll be left behind.

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