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  1. #226
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    today is the perfect example... tom bradys team would have been the 49ers where he is trash most of the game only for every other area to carry him through for the win.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I think a lot of that "Brady willing his team to victory" has nothing tangible to it. He won his first SB by throwing 1 TD pass the entire postseason. He threw 2 TD passes in his entire SB run in 2019. He won a lot of postseason games on amazing defense, clutch kicking from 2 HOFers , and the best head coach in NFL history.
    Handling pressure matter in sports. Some guys bend under the pressure and perform substandard. Take Madison Baumgarner, we all know Kershaw is the better pure thrower and pitcher. But Madison was basically unbeatable in his prime, and Kershaw was pretty chokey or at the least performing below par for a guy of his talent in the post-season. Same with Peyton Manning, he can't block out the pressure and expectations like Brady can and perform consistently. the QB in football is like the starting pitcher in MLB, how he fares will basically dictate half the game, in the playoffs in a one and done theres even more pressure to win in football and the starting pitcher needs days to rest as well so he can only control a series so much. Sports psychology isn't everything but it is a big factor when you consider the pressure and stakes/odds and who will succumb to it. Rodgers, Manning, and Marino all have more arm talent for sure, but I would take Brady over all of them in a do or die high stakes game. His track record has proven it, every year every team needs some kind of luck to win it all. The difference that separates Brady is he makes the most of his luck relative to his peers. Brady takes what the defense gives him better then some of the other goat candidates, sometimes surviving is all you need to do in some grind it out low scoring cold weather/defensive struggles in the playoffs. Brady and the offense also done their share to win games when the defense faltered in do or die games in the post season. I think his preparation and mental game deserves more credit then some will give him. To each their own.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    today is the perfect example... tom bradys team would have been the 49ers where he is trash most of the game only for every other area to carry him through for the win.
    Wow the disrespect. Tom Brady's team would've been the Packers where they give up the blocked punt but with 4 minutes left, he leads them down the field for a game winning FG.

    Give the guy the credit he deserves. 4 minutes left, down or tied. Brady will put his team in a position to win it.

    Guess you can say he's like the 49ers and Jimmy G when they got the ball with 3 minutes left and prevented Rodgers from touching it again

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  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Chiefs had some obvious holes last year that bit them in the *** in the SB. It happens. The Giants defense in 07 and 2011 may have found Brady's one kryptonite. A gap pressure. If you can find a way to put pressure on Brady without blitzing, then he is beatable because he has no mobility. That's a big reason why people think the Rams have a chance tomorrow. Mainly its Donald, Floyd and Miller.

    They might have been underdogs in last year's playoffs but their rosters were better than any of their competition including the Chiefs. I think a lot of that "Brady willing his team to victory" has nothing tangible to it. He won his first SB by throwing 1 TD pass the entire postseason. He threw 2 TD passes in his entire SB run in 2019. He won a lot of postseason games on amazing defense, clutch kicking from 2 HOFers , and the best head coach in NFL history.
    Heavy disagree. Brady leads his teams to wins because he puts his team in position to win. Don't look at the stats and definitely not TD. Look at the actual game and what he does. He's shown throughout his career that he takes the ball down the field for a game winning TD or FG many times already. FG aren't exactly 100% on the kicker/special team. Someone had to get them in a position to kick it

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  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    How can you say he's not the GOAT when statistically he is top 2-3 in every QB category and has all these championships?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I feel like Gronk could have continued playing at a high level when he retired. He wasn't prime Gronk but had he joined a team with a very good to great QB, I'm sure he would have put up good numbers. And I don't think it took Brady much convincing to be honest. I will give Brady credit for his ability to recruit and lead but those guys have talent on what was already a talented roster.

    Yeah, I'm not faulting Brady for joining a great situation. I just think its underestimated how good of a situation it was. I mean look at that offense from last year. Evans, Godwin, Gronk, Brown, Howard, Fournette, Jones, a very good offensive line, etc. Give Rodgers, Allen, or Mahomes that roster and they win the SB too. There are other guys I would make the case could win the SB with that offense as well.
    Couldíve but didnít. He came back to play with his buddy on a good team. He wasnít coming back if it wasnít Brady.

    And no one is underestimating it. It was obvious before Brady joined that they were a solid team that needed good QB play. Itís possible these other QBs couldíve won with that Bucs team too but itís already been laid out how stacked teams have lost. Brady was on one of those.

    Also, you just said the team is stacked but then listed the other elite QBs as being able to win a SB. If you were making an argument why wouldnít you list a more average QB? Maybe like Dak? Oh wait, heís had stacked offenses too and continues to fail.

    All youíve done is listed that Tampa was/is a stacked team and that any other elite QB could win with it.

    Ok?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #232
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    What 90% of people use to determine greatness. Stats wins longevity........ Best stats most wins still playing after 20 years. I don't get the argument

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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Couldíve but didnít. He came back to play with his buddy on a good team. He wasnít coming back if it wasnít Brady.

    And no one is underestimating it. It was obvious before Brady joined that they were a solid team that needed good QB play. Itís possible these other QBs couldíve won with that Bucs team too but itís already been laid out how stacked teams have lost. Brady was on one of those.

    Also, you just said the team is stacked but then listed the other elite QBs as being able to win a SB. If you were making an argument why wouldnít you list a more average QB? Maybe like Dak? Oh wait, heís had stacked offenses too and continues to fail.

    All youíve done is listed that Tampa was/is a stacked team and that any other elite QB could win with it.

    Ok?
    Sure, you're adding 2 HOFers and a potential one in Brown (if he wasn't such a nutcase) to an already stacked team. That goes a pretty long way in putting the Bucs in the position they've been in the last 2 years.

    I think people are underestimating it. It wasn't just a good situation. It was an ideal one. I mean the thing is only HOF QBs win SB nowadays. In the last 20 years, you've had 2 non HOF QBs win a SB. Nick Foles and Joe Flacco. I include Mahomes because the dude will be a HOFer assuming he doesn't have his career shortened by injury.

    If I told you I think Wilson, Herbert, Burrow, Stafford, etc could win with that team would you buy it? Maybe not but I hardly think its a stretch.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-23-2022 at 11:34 AM.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Sure, you're adding 2 HOFers and a potential one in Brown (if he wasn't such a nutcase) to an already stacked team. That goes a pretty long way in putting the Bucs in the position they've been in the last 2 years.

    I think people are underestimating it. It wasn't just a good situation. It was an ideal one. I mean the thing is only HOF QBs win SB nowadays. In the last 20 years, you've had 2 non HOF QBs win a SB. Nick Foles and Joe Flacco. I include Mahomes because the dude will be a HOFer assuming he doesn't have his career shortened by injury.

    If I told you I think Wilson, Herbert, Burrow, Stafford, etc could win with that team would you buy it? Maybe not but I hardly think its a stretch.
    I never argued it was a good situation or even an ideal one because it absolutely was.

    Adding those players has more to do with Tom than anything. The surrounding talent was still good but outside of Tom, what changed that Gronk or Brown didnít go there the year before? Gronk couldíve came back. Brown hooked on with the Pats but why didnít he go to be with Winstonís Bucs? Any team couldíve picked up Fournette when he was cut but he joined a really good team (again who could blame them).

    Maybe they could because those are still top level QBs. It was a great team, no one is disputing that but let me reverse it. Are Gronk, brown, and Fournette coming to Tampa if itís one of those QBs instead of Tom?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
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  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    today is the perfect example... tom bradys team would have been the 49ers where he is trash most of the game only for every other area to carry him through for the win.
    Brady is 3-8 when scoring less than 20 points in the playoffs.

    List of playoff games Brady has won when scoring 10 or less points:

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I never argued it was a good situation or even an ideal one because it absolutely was.

    Adding those players has more to do with Tom than anything. The surrounding talent was still good but outside of Tom, what changed that Gronk or Brown didnít go there the year before? Gronk couldíve came back. Brown hooked on with the Pats but why didnít he go to be with Winstonís Bucs? Any team couldíve picked up Fournette when he was cut but he joined a really good team (again who could blame them).

    Maybe they could because those are still top level QBs. It was a great team, no one is disputing that but let me reverse it. Are Gronk, brown, and Fournette coming to Tampa if itís one of those QBs instead of Tom?
    I've given Tom credit for recruiting and playing part time GM. He did it in New England as well and I get its the equity he's built that allows him to do those things. It also says to me that other GMs around the league have done a **** job putting together rosters for their star QBs. Rodgers is one of those guys. He should have more than 1 SB win and appearance on his resume. Yeah, some of that is on him but a lot of it is on the Packer's inability to put together a SB caliber roster and its been that way for years. Its complete ineptitude.

    At least I give the Rams their due. They're all in because they know their window is small with Stafford. That's how the Packers should have been with Rodgers in recent years. Instead they trade up in the first round to draft his replacement when the dude is still one of the best QBs in the league. Did that happen in New England with Tom Brady?
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-23-2022 at 01:01 PM.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I've given Tom credit for recruiting and playing part time GM. He did it in New England as well and I get its the equity he's built that allows him to do those things. It also says to me that other GMs around the league have done a **** job putting together rosters for their star QBs. Rodgers is one of those guys. He should have more than 1 SB win and appearance on his resume. Yeah, some of that is on him but a lot of it is on the Packer's inability to put together a SB caliber roster and its been that way for years.

    At least I give the Rams credit. They're all in because they know their window is small with Stafford. That's how the Packers should have been with Rodgers in recent years. Instead they trade up in the first round to draft his replacement when the dude is still one of the best QBs in the league. Did that happen in New England with Tom Brady?
    There are a lot of QBs like that. Took Manning forever and although he has two rings he really had nothing to do with his second. Brees. Those two teams were pretty well run. Thereís something I posted months back that thereís been like 2 QBs that were top 10 in cap hits for a QB in a season where they won a SB. Brady did it once I think and Manning once as well.

    I know people like to knock Tom for having a wife that makes a lot so he can take less, but there is really zero reason he canít also take money. Itís a testament to him that heís almost always willing to take less to improve his surroundings.

    Iím not sure if they traded up for him but the Patriots took Garappolo in the second as the obvious heir to Brady. Patriots have been pretty bad during Bradyís time there at drafting WRs. They usually went defense and lines heavy in the early rounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  13. #238
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    At what point do people just give it up and acknowledge that Brady having 7 - SEVEN - Super Bowls isnít a fluke. Like why are we doing here people lol


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    At what point do people just give it up and acknowledge that Brady having 7 - SEVEN - Super Bowls isnít a fluke. Like why are we doing here people lol
    I don't think its a fluke. I just think his role is overstated in some of those SB wins.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I don't think its a fluke. I just think his role is overstated in some of those SB wins.
    So itís overstated in ďsomeĒ of the super bowl winsÖ then itís not overstated in ďsomeĒ of the others. Thatís how many damn rings he has lol


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

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