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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    I have often wondered how shaq would do in today's game. on one hand he would have to do a lot more defensively, but on the other he could completely change the landscape of the NBA when he would be giving you 30 points on good efficiency. teams couldn't do all this 5 out stuff if Shaq was just getting a layup on the other end.
    it depends on his teammates... Would he have a kobe in todays game or a ben simmons? Also Shaq with orlando could make it work in todays nba but shaq when he was 325-390 would destroy his team.... There is a reason why joel/jokic cant just bang in the post all game in todays nba.. Shaq would need to develop a 15-18 foot shot or something or have a full on team of shooters around him and even then they would have to be amazing shooters. I dont think people understand how different the nba is from 01-now. Shaq in that detroit finals was gassed bad and had to rely on kobe more instead of dominating and it killed them.

  2. #17
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    I canít take seriously a game that values Curry more than Durant.
    Iíd say you need at least a few volume shooters who can hit around 40%, two in the starting lineup and another to power the bench. There should be several other guys above 35%.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    Iíd say you need at least a few volume shooters who can hit around 40%, two in the starting lineup and another to power the bench. There should be several other guys above 35%.
    Two 40% shooters in the starting 5 and another on the bench.
    Then several around 35% in the rotation.

    Sounds about right if you assume those 35% guys are in the starting lineup too. I don't think any contending team is throwing out a starting 5 with 3 non-shooters. I just showed that about 95% of the rotation players in the last 2 title teams could hit 3s.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    it depends on his teammates... Would he have a kobe in todays game or a ben simmons? Also Shaq with orlando could make it work in todays nba but shaq when he was 325-390 would destroy his team.... There is a reason why joel/jokic cant just bang in the post all game in todays nba.. Shaq would need to develop a 15-18 foot shot or something or have a full on team of shooters around him and even then they would have to be amazing shooters. I dont think people understand how different the nba is from 01-now. Shaq in that detroit finals was gassed bad and had to rely on kobe more instead of dominating and it killed them.
    I agree your teammates have a huge impact and Ben Simmons is a great example. In Philly they surrounded him with 4 shooters and people still lost their mind that he didn't shoot. Is talent enough without shooting?

    Ben Simmons / Demar Derozan/ Zion Williamson / Rudy Gobert.

    TON of talent there. Passing. Defense. Huge contracts. Can that core 4 win with a 3 and D guy?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    I have often wondered how shaq would do in today's game. on one hand he would have to do a lot more defensively, but on the other he could completely change the landscape of the NBA when he would be giving you 30 points on good efficiency. teams couldn't do all this 5 out stuff if Shaq was just getting a layup on the other end.
    Shaq would absolutely dominate this era or any era just as he did his own era.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Shaq would absolutely dominate this era or any era just as he did his own era.
    Yup. This is common sense. Especially if Shaq is playing at his Orlando weight this guy was 290 and so explosive. He would play under on the PnR just like Gobert, Whiteside, and every other shot blocker does. On the other end he probably averages 30 for many more seasons than he did.

  7. #22
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    I think the question is almost the opposite these days. It's not how many shooters do you need, it's how many non shooters can you have? And the truth is you can't really afford to have more than 1 non shooter on the floor at a time.

    That doesnt mean you need to have 4 shooters on the floor at a time (depending on your definition of shooters). Like the Bucks have brook Lopez. He's shot 31% and 33% the last two years from 3. I don't think I'd consider him a shooter per se, but he's passable enough as a shooter to make you at least think twice about leaving him wide open. You can have a guy or two like that with your non shooter on the floor, but having more than 1 non shooter for more than a few small stretches is tough.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I think the question is almost the opposite these days. It's not how many shooters do you need, it's how many non shooters can you have? And the truth is you can't really afford to have more than 1 non shooter on the floor at a time.

    That doesnt mean you need to have 4 shooters on the floor at a time (depending on your definition of shooters). Like the Bucks have brook Lopez. He's shot 31% and 33% the last two years from 3. I don't think I'd consider him a shooter per se, but he's passable enough as a shooter to make you at least think twice about leaving him wide open. You can have a guy or two like that with your non shooter on the floor, but having more than 1 non shooter for more than a few small stretches is tough.
    That last non-shooter doesn't have to be good, but they do need to be willing to shoot to keep defense somewhere near.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I agree your teammates have a huge impact and Ben Simmons is a great example. In Philly they surrounded him with 4 shooters and people still lost their mind that he didn't shoot. Is talent enough without shooting?

    Ben Simmons / Demar Derozan/ Zion Williamson / Rudy Gobert.

    TON of talent there. Passing. Defense. Huge contracts. Can that core 4 win with a 3 and D guy?
    The problem with Ben isnt just that he doesnít shoot. Itís that he has the ball and doesnít shoot. The ball needs to be a threat. If it isnít offense will stagnate. With Ben you want him leading as many breaks as possible and want him to have the ball on the perimeter against a set defense as little as possible. It a tricky thing to pull off
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    it depends on his teammates... Would he have a kobe in todays game or a ben simmons? Also Shaq with orlando could make it work in todays nba but shaq when he was 325-390 would destroy his team.... There is a reason why joel/jokic cant just bang in the post all game in todays nba.. Shaq would need to develop a 15-18 foot shot or something or have a full on team of shooters around him and even then they would have to be amazing shooters. I dont think people understand how different the nba is from 01-now. Shaq in that detroit finals was gassed bad and had to rely on kobe more instead of dominating and it killed them.
    Okay but the 00-03 Lakers DID play four out around Shaq. I think for Shaq his biggest issue would be how modern reffing works. A lot of his moves from the 00s would be called as an offensive foul more often than not. I think he'd still be a dominant scorer but maybe to a slightly lesser extent.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    Okay but the 00-03 Lakers DID play four out around Shaq. I think for Shaq his biggest issue would be how modern reffing works. A lot of his moves from the 00s would be called as an offensive foul more often than not. I think he'd still be a dominant scorer but maybe to a slightly lesser extent.
    Can you define slightly lesser? The thing that often confuses me about forum takes is that lack of application to reality/history.

    I hear it all the time: X player couldn't dominate in today's/yesterday's league because of X rule or play style. Can anyone slow me any rule change that ever made a great player suck? Serious question.

    From the 24 second clock to the 3pt line, to the 8 second violation, to illegal defense to hand checking to the restricted area, to any change you can think of. Can anyone here name any player who suddenly became obsolete or even a much worse player overnight?

    If not, then why do basketball fans constantly say things like X player would be a bum in X era?

    I get it that we're talking about just 1-2 rule changes each season, but the amount of seasons guys like Kareem, Malone, Kobe, LeBron, etc played across decades and dominated across numerous rule changes. I just think fans should think hard before suggesting any to 25 all-time player would struggle because they couldn't adjust to something

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Can you define slightly lesser? The thing that often confuses me about forum takes is that lack of application to reality/history.

    I hear it all the time: X player couldn't dominate in today's/yesterday's league because of X rule or play style. Can anyone slow me any rule change that ever made a great player suck? Serious question.

    From the 24 second clock to the 3pt line, to the 8 second violation, to illegal defense to hand checking to the restricted area, to any change you can think of. Can anyone here name any player who suddenly became obsolete or even a much worse player overnight?

    If not, then why do basketball fans constantly say things like X player would be a bum in X era?

    I get it that we're talking about just 1-2 rule changes each season, but the amount of seasons guys like Kareem, Malone, Kobe, LeBron, etc played across decades and dominated across numerous rule changes. I just think fans should think hard before suggesting any to 25 all-time player would struggle because they couldn't adjust to something
    It's less about any specific rule changes and more about the frequency of how refs would interpret Shaq's physicality as an offensive foul in 2021. It has more to do with the interpretation of the rules than any actual changes to the rules themselves. There's a good Thinking Basketball podcast ep that talks about it in more detail that I'll try and hunt down.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Can you define slightly lesser? The thing that often confuses me about forum takes is that lack of application to reality/history.

    I hear it all the time: X player couldn't dominate in today's/yesterday's league because of X rule or play style. Can anyone slow me any rule change that ever made a great player suck? Serious question.

    From the 24 second clock to the 3pt line, to the 8 second violation, to illegal defense to hand checking to the restricted area, to any change you can think of. Can anyone here name any player who suddenly became obsolete or even a much worse player overnight?

    If not, then why do basketball fans constantly say things like X player would be a bum in X era?

    I get it that we're talking about just 1-2 rule changes each season, but the amount of seasons guys like Kareem, Malone, Kobe, LeBron, etc played across decades and dominated across numerous rule changes. I just think fans should think hard before suggesting any to 25 all-time player would struggle because they couldn't adjust to something
    Can I add something?

    How about the difference of era's in what people would be asking a guy to learn and focus on. Like, I've argued if KD came up in the 80's or early 90's they would have asked him to be a rim protecting big. But because he came up in the era where they would ask him to do more he's able to train to do more. If Shaq were in high school now he'd be asked to be something different and would work on it.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Can I add something?

    How about the difference of era's in what people would be asking a guy to learn and focus on. Like, I've argued if KD came up in the 80's or early 90's they would have asked him to be a rim protecting big. But because he came up in the era where they would ask him to do more he's able to train to do more. If Shaq were in high school now he'd be asked to be something different and would work on it.
    Yes and no. There were always outliers. Magic being the most obvious.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Yes and no. There were always outliers. Magic being the most obvious.
    A few here and there. But that doesn't mean they still wouldn't generally be tasked to do too much like that.

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