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  1. #46
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    Maybe Mitch should ask Nerlens what happens when you turn down a nice deal, and gambleÖ

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Nothing to do with one report. I think thatís fair money. A bit low, maybe. But we are also giving it to him early. What if he has another year where heís hurt a lot? Value goes down. What if he doesnít continue improving? Value goes down. Give him the extension, at the length of his choosing, and maybe offer a PO. Heís set, and then he can focus on getting better, and cashing in.

    You act like heís an established star. Zero accolades to this point, minimal offensive game, and was only beginning to prove heís even a starter
    Facts

  3. #48
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    Shady I actually think the Knicks aren't giving it to him early or he'd have it, they have not made the offer they said they would talk.

    Other reports say they need to see him play first which could mean when camp opens, or preseason, they have till Oct 20th, so I think they would like to see Mitch show how he handles the added muscles and how his ankle performs, from a team perspective all legit things to do,

    Again it comes down to Mitch how much is he a gambler, I'm thinking 12m for min of 3 years not so much lol especially with 8% raises, and not forget that Covid isn't over yet, who knows.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Shady I actually think the Knicks aren't giving it to him early or he'd have it, they have not made the offer they said they would talk.

    Other reports say they need to see him play first which could mean when camp opens, or preseason, they have till Oct 20th, so I think they would like to see Mitch show how he handles the added muscles and how his ankle performs, from a team perspective all legit things to do,

    Again it comes down to Mitch how much is he a gambler, I'm thinking 12m for min of 3 years not so much lol especially with 8% raises, and not forget that Covid isn't over yet, who knows.
    Thatís definitely possible. I mean itís not like we arenít assuming any risk here.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Except for the fact that Schroeder turned down a 21mill a yr/84mill dollar contract. Mitch would be turning down 12 mill which he could probably get in his sleep, even if he sprained another ankle this yr. Big difference and no one can convince me Schroeder makes a bigger impact than Mitch.

    Really, Robert Williams signs with Celtls for 4yrs/ 54mill.....so this guy can get 13.5mil per yr from the Celts but Mitch is worth 12??? whatevs... Mitch, play it out and get your money.
    Numbers are similar. Schroeder believed he was worth 100 million.

    You believe Mitch is worth 70 million when he is being offered 50 million. Is the lifestyle between 50 and 70 million that much different??

    Whether it's 50, 60, 70 million that is all life changing money for a guy who earned 1.8 million. Its his first big contract and Im not gambling that. He could EASILY get injured again or outperformed by Noel who does have favor with the coach.

    My advice is take the guaranteed money now. Set yourself and family up for life. Play big on this contract and he could be looking at 120 million. If he fails, he still made 50 million.
    Last edited by THE MTL; 08-25-2021 at 09:26 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE MTL View Post
    Numbers are similar. Schroeder believed he was worth 100 million.

    You believe Mitch is worth 70 million when he is being offered 50 million. Is the lifestyle between 50 and 70 million that much different??

    Whether it's 50, 60, 70 million that is all life changing money for a guy who earned 1.8 million. Its his first big contract and Im not gambling that. He could EASILY get injured again or outperformed by Noel who does have favor with the coach.

    My advice is take the guaranteed money now. Set yourself and family up for life. Play big on this contract and he could be looking at 120 million. If he fails, he still made 50 million.
    nice post, and after reading this anyone think Knicks will make playing Mitch a priority if they don't have him guaranteed if they make him the offer? Based on Noel's contract the Knicks obviously feel he can do the job,
    Lets not discount if coach plays Mitch 24 min that is not getting him 18m next year on the open market.

    And lastly worth rementioning, not all teams have cap space to sign Mitch for 18m and gamble on him not getting hurt, and teams with cap some already have centers, suns, SA just signed 2 centers, Minny, honestly the market is not huge for teams with cap in need of centers who don't shoot also?

    The more i think about it, it's not is mitch going to take the extension it's are the Knicks going too make the offer?

    Knicks also have full bird rights so they can go over the cap to sign him so another advantage against capped out teams who can only offer MLE.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    first thing is learn about contracts he starts at 10.7 okay, because that is the max ext he's allowed, when will that sink in with you, who are you arguing with, yourself.

    Not one person (and i dont' count that poster fyi) is saying he's not worth more than 12m, the deal is either you take it now or wait till FA then sign with who you want.

    Now do some math and i've told you this be his agent, who has cap for 2022 season? Then do more math who needs a starting center that has cap?
    Now be his agent the league has him at 11m value right now based on his games played and coming off season ending surgery, which he had two surgery's last year, and think that don't matter, check history. He's been in the league 3 years and his numbers don't help him, he's all defense in a league where three is Key, and bigs are shooting three's.
    Forgetting all that the option is clear, take the extension or gamble on yourself and with your history, your lack of a good IQ, i'd be very careful, very careful.

    Yes Robert Williams will get in 2022 10.7m in year one, he won't see Mitch money till year 3 as Mitch will get 8% raises.

    So go take FA, go get the max 4 years and 5% raises over 4 years again do the math 12% differential adds up, no team can offer him that but the Knicks.

    You look at things in very simplistic ways, I can go on with why he should take the deal and make the Knicks give him a PO, but that is just to easy and common sense.

    So yea I'm Mitch i'm earning 1.8m basically till BB living off welfare, and I have a chance to secure a 12m contract and in only 2 years play for a bigger pay day oh yea i'm taking it with the 8% raises, no brainer. No worries about an injury, just taking at a min a 40m guaranteed no matter if i get hurt, how I play if Nerlens or Simms out plays me, yea i'm good with that, and if i play to the next level i'm up for the next contract.
    What's 54mill divided by 4?? 13.5.mill THATS what he will average EVERY YR so your statement means next to nothing about where his contracts starts. It's about the total.

    WHY ARE YOU BRINGING UP LEAGUE REPORTS ABOUT WHAT MITCH IS WORTH, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY MITCH IS WORTH?

    Of course YOU would take the deal. I would expect nothing less. If Mitch isn't getting CRAZY incentives, walk away. Your statement about Mitch should take the deal because of lack of IQ is just idiotic.

    Mitch has incredible basketball IQ..INCREDIBLE so I have no clue what you're talking about. You don't get THAT good on Defense without bball IQ. Mitch is the best most versatile defender the Knicks may have EVER had. EVER. Take the deal if the incentives are huge. If not, wallk
    Last edited by Bivory; 08-26-2021 at 08:51 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    What's 54mill divided by 4?? 13.5.mill THATS what he will average EVERY YR so your statement means next to nothing about where his contracts starts. It's about the total.

    WHY ARE YOU BRINGING UP LEAGUE REPORTS ABOUT WHAT MITCH IS WORTH, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY MITCH IS WORTH?

    Of course YOU would take the deal. I would expect nothing less. If Mitch isn't getting CRAZY incentives, walk away. Your statement about Mitch should take the deal because of lack of IQ is just idiotic.

    Mitch has incredible basketball IQ..INCREDIBLE so I have no clue what you're talking about. You don't get THAT good on Defense without bball IQ. Mitch is the best most versatile defender the Knicks may have EVER had. EVER. Take the deal if the incentives are huge. If not, wallk
    Do you think a team handing out a terrible, strange contract automatically means other players get more based on that? It all depends on whatís out there in the market, and whoís got the room to pay. Thereís zero guarantees.

    And the deal is actually 4/48, when you take out all the bonuses/incentives. I believe our extension of Mitch would start at 12-13M not counting bonus money we could tack on. Iím seeing the numbers as 4/56, with possibly an extra 9M in bonus, if thatís correct
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 08-26-2021 at 09:09 AM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Do you think a team handing out a terrible, strange contract automatically means other players get more based on that? It all depends on whatís out there in the market, and whoís got the room to pay. Thereís zero guarantees.

    And the deal is actually 4/48, when you take out all the bonuses/incentives
    Yes, that's exactly what it means. It's callled market price and the market price for bums like Dwight Powell is 11milllion... Williams gets 13.5... Olynik got 12.5 millll Allen makes freakin 20mill.. Collins got 25mill,

    No way should a younger more impactful Center take the deal you guys are talking about without major incentives, that deal sucks.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Do you think a team handing out a terrible, strange contract automatically means other players get more based on that? It all depends on whatís out there in the market, and whoís got the room to pay. Thereís zero guarantees.

    And the deal is actually 4/48, when you take out all the bonuses/incentives. I believe our extension of Mitch would start at 12-13M not counting bonus money we could tack on. Iím seeing the numbers as 4/56, with possibly an extra 9M in bonus, if thatís correct
    56+9 milll...that's more like it.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what it means. It's callled market price and the market price for bums like Dwight Powell is 11milllion... Williams gets 13.5... Olynik got 12.5 millll Allen makes freakin 20mill.. Collins got 25mill,

    No way should a younger more impactful Center take the deal you guys are talking about without major incentives, that deal sucks.
    Does it though? Weíll see. And it all depends how many teams out there want him, and can afford him, without us facilitating it

    Allen is better. And got overpaid. Iíd argue Olynyk has similar value right now, to Mitch. Heís good. Thatís not to say Mitch canít/wonít play that value higher. You also keep ignoring positional value. Williams is much more of a perimeter defender. Thatís worth more. I think Mitch at max, is around 15M per, currently. Go a little less, and offer him an early out. Done deal

    Donít forget, guys that bet on themselves usually made some money already. Even Noel, who failed famously trying it, was a high first rounder, and made some money already. Schroder may have taken the L, but heís still at almost 80M career. Mitch will be a bit over 6M career.
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 08-26-2021 at 09:40 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    What's 54mill divided by 4?? 13.5.mill THATS what he will average EVERY YR so your statement means next to nothing about where his contracts starts. It's about the total.

    WHY ARE YOU BRINGING UP LEAGUE REPORTS ABOUT WHAT MITCH IS WORTH, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY MITCH IS WORTH?

    Of course YOU would take the deal. I would expect nothing less. If Mitch isn't getting CRAZY incentives, walk away. Your statement about Mitch should take the deal because of lack of IQ is just idiotic.

    Mitch has incredible basketball IQ..INCREDIBLE so I have no clue what you're talking about. You don't get THAT good on Defense without bball IQ. Mitch is the best most versatile defender the Knicks may have EVER had. EVER. Take the deal if the incentives are huge. If not, wallk
    so why not add in Mitch's 12m with 8% raises instead of comparing 13.7 to Mitch at 12M?

    yes its relevant you can't have it both ways, Mitch will start at 12m and the other contract started at 10.7.

    Why those are the league rules for extensions and that is what is Mitch qualifies for, he didn't earn more by League rules that is the problem, that is what is not sinking in.

    The comparison is 10.7 to 12m that is simple math not dividing by 4 that is not even math, when comparing year one to year one, right?

    How many players in the NBA didn't take their max league extension? Now how many did it work out for?

    Easy to gamble with someone else' 12m, like that is pocket change? Will you see 12m in your entire life? Not being a wise guy but seriously, a guy like Mitch would be foolish to make such a huge gamble and give up the money of a lifetime, dream money, and have it guaranteed?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Do you think a team handing out a terrible, strange contract automatically means other players get more based on that? It all depends on whatís out there in the market, and whoís got the room to pay. Thereís zero guarantees.

    And the deal is actually 4/48, when you take out all the bonuses/incentives. I believe our extension of Mitch would start at 12-13M not counting bonus money we could tack on. Iím seeing the numbers as 4/56, with possibly an extra 9M in bonus, if thatís correct
    actually no Shady that is the number approx with annual 8% raises he gets only from the Knicks, the bonus would be on top of that, I explained that to Biv already, he didn't address that part and I explained how contracts work, Boston started out at 10.7 so to take the average and compare it to Mitch in his first year is just wrong.

    He keep throwing out 18m unless he has a banner season and plays 30+ min he won't see that. So he's asking a young guy that never had money that now makes 1.8m to risk 12m that can guarantee him 56M over the life of the contract and yet take an out so if he feels he can make more he goes for it?

    Then says of course I take the money? Holy cow, yes, a 700% increase with 8% increases that starts at 1m per season lol

    Do you know his first increase is 1m and he's making 1.8m today?

    It's kind of like that guy who is selling his house gets an amazing first offer and then doesn't take it, ooops oh boy, now he has to settle for 50K less.

    I say that because my cousin just did that and didn't listen and now took a 50K hit on the first offer and got lucky it was only 50K, I didn't think he'd get that much, and the funny part was that was my house in 2001 and i know what he profited.

    Gambling can back fire and big time, and in Mitch's case I have not seen Biv work out who has 18m in cap that needs a center? Not everyone is going to pay like Cleveland did that was a mistake, it will backfire. One person so Mitch has to rely on that one special team, that is a huge gamble for who has cap and needs a center.

    He ignores those comments never see a reply, so much more than oh i'm better than 12m? That isn't the argument, it's are you willing to gamble.

    as a big Mitch fan, I'd say if you gamble good luck all the best, as a business man, take the freakn' money and go for the big pay day in only 2 years if you earned it.

    There is having faith in yourself and then there is having faith in yourself, i'd take option B becuase i have faith in myself but i'm also in reality that i like guarantees' and at his age to wait two years if he's that good damn he makes up those two years in the first year.

    How does that not make sense?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    What's 54mill divided by 4?? 13.5.mill THATS what he will average EVERY YR so your statement means next to nothing about where his contracts starts. It's about the total.

    WHY ARE YOU BRINGING UP LEAGUE REPORTS ABOUT WHAT MITCH IS WORTH, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAY MITCH IS WORTH?

    Of course YOU would take the deal. I would expect nothing less. If Mitch isn't getting CRAZY incentives, walk away. Your statement about Mitch should take the deal because of lack of IQ is just idiotic.

    Mitch has incredible basketball IQ..INCREDIBLE so I have no clue what you're talking about. You don't get THAT good on Defense without bball IQ. Mitch is the best most versatile defender the Knicks may have EVER had. EVER. Take the deal if the incentives are huge. If not, wallk
    Best most versatile defender we ever had?!?

    You must be Mitch's agent. I'm convinced.

  15. #60
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    Randle,

    "yes I could have waited for more money, but having security and stability there is nothing like it"

    Enough said lol

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