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  1. #61
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    What is the purpose of talking " less about this and that vote" if nothing gets done? This conservation would go down better at mid-term when we see what has been accomplished with having Joe Manchin on your side.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-01-2021 at 02:00 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    I would hope he is more loyal to the people who voted for him.


    And being from WV, they’re likely conservatives.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If they are Trumpsters, and he truly is a man of the people, he reflects the opinion of the voters who put him in congress. Well, you can kiss off any progressive or climate change policy right off the bat. So lose if he is a man of the people, lose if he brought. I am not interested in getting him re-elected, in fact, DNC needs to grow a pair a find another state to gain like Georgia. Stop settling.

    Anyway, I am betting he will stab the DNC in the back, or who knows, Manchin and the moderates might stab the progressives in the back over climate change and progressive policy. I am really leaning on the latter.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    What is the purpose of talking " less about this and that vote" if nothing gets done? This conservation would go down better at mid-term when we see what has been accomplished with having Joe Manchin on your side.
    I don't know why you're determined to make this more complicated than it is. How much was accomplished with Mitch McConnell as Majority Leader? That is what we still have if Manchin wasn't there.

    No one is saying he is a beacon of Democratic ideals or something. He simply serves a purpose right now. Elect more Democrats to the Senate and he doesn't matter. We have a surprisingly safe seat in a deep red state, and he can't hold legislation hostage that is too far left for him. Simple.


    "The thing we may have to accept is that red states really like this pandemic and want to keep it.”" - @LOLGOP

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    He is still a money-grubbing politician, who puts big money before the common people. You are trying to sell me on team strategy where I won't give a crap about it if things don't get done. If the Democrats achieve their goals, fine, you can keep your little corrupt donor whore politician, But if the moderate fail, I going to point fingers at people and the DNC's political strategy. I don't think I will be the only one feeling that way when election time comes around.
    Did Manchin run over your dog or something? It's like you're determined to ignore anything that's being said so you can keep acting like things will somehow be better with a Republican majority. It's baffling.


    "The thing we may have to accept is that red states really like this pandemic and want to keep it.”" - @LOLGOP

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Did Manchin run over your dog or something? It's like you're determined to ignore anything that's being said so you can keep acting like things will somehow be better with a Republican majority. It's baffling.
    Wow. Like Mankin hasn't done anything to deserve this rant. No backroom talk with donors. That Koch connect don't raise a red flag,. I will stop there, you haven't been listening to me or you don't think these things matter in the face of losing the majority. Hell, the democrat still hasn't impressed me let with the majority they have now.

    We have this talk again after mid-term.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    I don't know why you're determined to make this more complicated than it is. How much was accomplished with Mitch McConnell as Majority Leader? That is what we still have if Manchin wasn't there.

    No one is saying he is a beacon of Democratic ideals or something. He simply serves a purpose right now. Elect more Democrats to the Senate and he doesn't matter. We have a surprisingly safe seat in a deep red state, and he can't hold legislation hostage that is too far left for him. Simple.
    Simple, you put up with corrupt politicians to achieve an advantage. How long have we been supporting corrupt donor-backed politicians and where has that gotten us. Gridlock and a party with a "The do-nothing party" label on it.

    Working with corrupt politicans.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Wow. Like Mankin hasn't done anything to deserve this rant. No backroom talk with donors. That Koch connect don't raise a red flag,. I will stop there, you haven't been listening to me or you don't think these things matter in the face of losing the majority. Hell, the democrat still hasn't impressed me let with the majority they have now.

    We have this talk again after mid-term.
    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Simple, you put up with corrupt politicians to achieve an advantage. How long have we been supporting corrupt donor-backed politicians and where has that gotten us. Gridlock and a party with a "The do-nothing party" label on it.

    Working with corrupt politicans.
    Because the majority they have now is literally as slim as it can be. It's not possible for it to be smaller than it is.

    I have been listening to you, and that's the problem. Either you believe that currently having a Republican majority in the Senate would be an improvement over what we have now, or you don't. Those are the choices.

    Either you believe that the Republican from West Virginia that will replace Manchin is going to be a better option, or you don't. Those are the choices.

    There is no super secret third option on this. We don't get to wave a magic wand and put whoever we want in that seat. The people of West Virginia decide who takes that seat. Can you look at Shelley Moore Capito and say that another one of her in the Senate would be an improvement? That is your choice.

    There is no better in West Virginia waiting to take his place. It would be great if there was, but that is not the reality of the situation.


    "The thing we may have to accept is that red states really like this pandemic and want to keep it.”" - @LOLGOP

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Well, no, it's not. Legislation is not the only thing that happens in the Senate; it's why McConnell was such an outsized problem. Having control of the Senate, for example, allowed Biden to confirm more judges by July 1 than anyone else in the last 50 years.

    And that majority is going to really matter of a SCOTUS seat opens up between now and the next election. It's the difference between Garland not even being considered and Amy Coney Barett being rushed through.

    I don't know what you hope to accomplish by having the four progressives in West Virginia try to primary him, either. Without Manchin, his seat 100% goes red. Focusing on him like this is not the way to make him irrelevant, focusing on vulnerable Republicans is. Once he's not the difference between control of the Senate, no one is going to give a **** what he wants.

    There's just no reason to shoot ourselves in the foot here. It's entirely an unforced error.
    Not to mention he wont lose the primary. Pretty sure he spanked the last proggressive to run against him.

    However Sinema will get primaried. Not likely to be by a proggressive but still. She doesnt have Manchins plot armor.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Because the majority they have now is literally as slim as it can be. It's not possible for it to be smaller than it is.

    I have been listening to you, and that's the problem. Either you believe that currently having a Republican majority in the Senate would be an improvement over what we have now, or you don't. Those are the choices.

    Either you believe that the Republican from West Virginia that will replace Manchin is going to be a better option, or you don't. Those are the choices.

    There is no super secret third option on this. We don't get to wave a magic wand and put whoever we want in that seat. The people of West Virginia decide who takes that seat. Can you look at Shelley Moore Capito and say that another one of her in the Senate would be an improvement? That is your choice.

    There is no better in West Virginia waiting to take his place. It would be great if there was, but that is not the reality of the situation.
    Tell me one simple thing, is Joe Manchin corrupt? Really, I am thinking that isn't a problem for moderate Democrats as long as they have a majority to do nothing but collect donor money.

    Yeah, that is a system to go out and fight for. Y'all are sounding like abused wives saying "yes, they abuse their office for material gains, but they mean well. We got the majority"

    With that kind of thinking the democrat deserve to lose and I am not falling for the "the lesser of two evils crap", that is a game for losers cause you still have to deal with evil. The lesser of two poisons will still kill you in the end.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  10. #70
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    Don't bit ch about the corruption in the republican party, the racists within the party, or the nutcase because, like you, the republican voters support them to keep the other party out of power and maintain their majority. We all are voting against our own needs and principle.

    Making us all one big abused/enablers of a corrupt system for our own reasons.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-01-2021 at 09:48 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  11. #71
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    Oh, man, I am totally out of this game. I will just sit back and laugh at "useful idiots" cheering on politicians who don't give a crap about them.

    "But, But, But the republican will gain majority" The democrat has been playing that fear for forty-some decades while achieving nothing for the working poor and got us in the mess we are in now. How long have they been talking about criminal justice, fair wages, and protecting the environment?

    You are being played son. Just like the republicans play their own. "Yeah, he says racist things, but, but, but the democrat will gain the majority and we can't have that"
    Last edited by WES445; 08-01-2021 at 09:58 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Manchin voted for the ARP. He voted for infrastructure bill. He’s voted for countless bills that Mitch would have filibustered or otherwise voted against. This is a pretty irresponsible claim.
    Though I was thinking more along the lines of the way they both play the game of cash politics, it turns out that McConnell and Manchin are actually fairly close ideologically — both quite centrist in their overall voting patterns — see below.

    Like I say, not surprising (and hardly irresponsible).

    EDIT: (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/mem...enate/ideology).
    Last edited by Crovash; 08-01-2021 at 12:25 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    He is still a money-grubbing politician, who puts big money before the common people. You are trying to sell me on team strategy where I won't give a crap about it if things don't get done. If the Democrats achieve their goals, fine, you can keep your little corrupt donor whore politician, But if the moderate fail, I going to point fingers at people and the DNC's political strategy. I don't think I will be the only one feeling that way when election time comes around.
    As opposed to all the pious representatives and senators surrounding him? He alone stands as the avatar of greed and self dealing?

    And this team strategy you’re talking about is how legislation becomes law. If you don’t work together, nothing happens except the Republicans work to pass legislation. Because they are in relative lockstep on taking away the rights that you hold so dear.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    As opposed to all the pious representatives and senators surrounding him? He alone stands as the avatar of greed and self dealing?

    And this team strategy you’re talking about is how legislation becomes law. If you don’t work together, nothing happens except the Republicans work to pass legislation. Because they are in relative lockstep on taking away the rights that you hold so dear.
    Well, enjoy your corrupt politicians and system. If they don't get anything accomplishes, you will still have your majority.. until the next election.

    Funny, you've been doing this for how long, and what has it got you, Donald Trump? Couldn't beat a game show host who was a racist and sexist pig. Impressive. It took two tries to beat him.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  15. #75
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    you already lost what you should have held dear, the right to proper representation and integrity among those who serve. Without that, everything else is a farce.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-01-2021 at 05:20 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

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