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  1. #16
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    Simmons is the better player, but I don't think I'd want to make that trade unless we make a few other trades.

    I rather trade FVV and Lowry for Simmons and other pieces.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Simmons is the better player, but I don't think I'd want to make that trade unless we make a few other trades.

    I rather trade FVV and Lowry for Simmons and other pieces.
    Same here since Ben doesn't want either of them making him look bad in the backcourt raining 3s. I hope Morey would make this happen.

  3. #18
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    Raptors making Pascal Siakam available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Simmons is the better player, but I don't think I'd want to make that trade unless we make a few other trades.

    I rather trade FVV and Lowry for Simmons and other pieces.
    Why is Simmons better? Do you think his defense adds that much value? Pascal is a very good defender and a much better offensive player imo


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    Last edited by ewing; 07-25-2021 at 10:43 PM.
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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Why is Simmons better? Do you think his defense adds that much value? Pascal is a very good defender and a much better offensive player imo

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    I think they are close but yea, I would give it to Simmons due to defensive ability.

    As limited as Ben is scoring wise, he doesn't become an inefficient scorer the way Pascal can be. Maybe that's due to Siakam taking on a much bigger role offensively but I think Simmons playing PF/C would reduce the stigma around him. Instead of a PG who can't shoot, he's a defensive minded big man who can run an offense.

    He's still a 15 ppg scorer on 56% shooting so not like he's the biggest liability offensively.

    But I actually want them to be on the same team. I would run Simmons/Siakam/OG as a positionless front court. We'd have the 4th pick too for presumably Suggs.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I think they are close but yea, I would give it to Simmons due to defensive ability.

    As limited as Ben is scoring wise, he doesn't become an inefficient scorer the way Pascal can be. Maybe that's due to Siakam taking on a much bigger role offensively but I think Simmons playing PF/C would reduce the stigma around him. Instead of a PG who can't shoot, he's a defensive minded big man who can run an offense.

    He's still a 15 ppg scorer on 56% shooting so not like he's the biggest liability offensively.

    But I actually want them to be on the same team. I would run Simmons/Siakam/OG as a positionless front court. We'd have the 4th pick too for presumably Suggs.
    Ben in a Bam/Draymond role could work.

  6. #21
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    Raptors making Pascal Siakam available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I think they are close but yea, I would give it to Simmons due to defensive ability.

    As limited as Ben is scoring wise, he doesn't become an inefficient scorer the way Pascal can be. Maybe that's due to Siakam taking on a much bigger role offensively but I think Simmons playing PF/C would reduce the stigma around him. Instead of a PG who can't shoot, he's a defensive minded big man who can run an offense.

    He's still a 15 ppg scorer on 56% shooting so not like he's the biggest liability offensively.

    But I actually want them to be on the same team. I would run Simmons/Siakam/OG as a positionless front court. We'd have the 4th pick too for presumably Suggs.
    I donít think that positionless basketball. Thatís 3 forwards with 0 wiggle. Idk I donít think itís a stigma.

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    Last edited by ewing; 07-25-2021 at 11:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I think they are close but yea, I would give it to Simmons due to defensive ability.

    As limited as Ben is scoring wise, he doesn't become an inefficient scorer the way Pascal can be. Maybe that's due to Siakam taking on a much bigger role offensively but I think Simmons playing PF/C would reduce the stigma around him. Instead of a PG who can't shoot, he's a defensive minded big man who can run an offense.

    He's still a 15 ppg scorer on 56% shooting so not like he's the biggest liability offensively.

    But I actually want them to be on the same team. I would run Simmons/Siakam/OG as a positionless front court. We'd have the 4th pick too for presumably Suggs.
    I love the positionless frontcourt idea using the SiSi moniker as they dominate the paint. I think the Raps FO are more interested in Ben then they are letting on cause his long contract will keep a bonified star in Toronto unlike KL.

    He is one of the most efficient ballers where he rather not take shots then to miss them unlike many streaky shooters who doesn't know when to stop.

    https://youtu.be/3FHKMeGm_54

    Lowry and FVV should get it done for the Sixers or risk losing him to another team!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    Simmons is the better player, but I don't think I'd want to make that trade unless we make a few other trades.

    I rather trade FVV and Lowry for Simmons and other pieces.
    Siakam is the better two way player. They are both good defenders. While Simmons is the better defender, Siakam is the far better offensive player. When you consider both sides of the ball I take Siakam pretty easily.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps18-19 Champ View Post
    I think they are close but yea, I would give it to Simmons due to defensive ability.

    As limited as Ben is scoring wise, he doesn't become an inefficient scorer the way Pascal can be. Maybe that's due to Siakam taking on a much bigger role offensively but I think Simmons playing PF/C would reduce the stigma around him. Instead of a PG who can't shoot, he's a defensive minded big man who can run an offense.

    He's still a 15 ppg scorer on 56% shooting so not like he's the biggest liability offensively.

    But I actually want them to be on the same team. I would run Simmons/Siakam/OG as a positionless front court. We'd have the 4th pick too for presumably Suggs.
    How do you compare them in that sense? Did you watch Ben in the playoffs this year? Heís like the last option on the offensive end of the starters for the 6er. Ben doesnít shoot and is scared to get fouled on drives. That was a big problem for the 6ers in the post season. So while youíre praising his effeciency, his lack of aggressiveness actually hurt his team.

    Siakam has lead his team to the 2nd round as a first option. Simmons hasnít gotten any further despite having Embiid. Just looking at the post season Siakam took 16.5 attempts vs simmons 7.9. Thatís more than double attempts. What if if we switched their roles and had Simmons as the first option and Siakam playing off of Embiid? What would their respective efficiency look like then?

    Siakam is really a 2nd or 3rd option. The Raptors just donít have anyone better to put in that position so he was put there out of necessity. If he reverts back to being a 2nd or 3rd option like he was in our ship run, he would be much more comfortable and Iím willing to bet he would help Embiid get passed the 2nd round.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 07-26-2021 at 10:56 AM.

  10. #25
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    Best landing spot for Siakam other than Golden State and Portland, is the Washington Wizards


    Washington Wizards receive: Pascal Siakam, #4 overall pick, Malachi Flynn and 2023 first round overall pick

    Toronto Raptors receive: Bradley Beal

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Best landing spot for Siakam other than Golden State and Portland, is the Washington Wizards


    Washington Wizards receive: Pascal Siakam, #4 overall pick, Malachi Flynn and 2023 first round overall pick

    Toronto Raptors receive: Bradley Beal
    We wouldnít give up both Siakam and the 4th pick let alone include another future first.

    Also our biggest needs are at 1&5.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    i bet there's quite a few teams interested in his defense at the 4 spot. Someone like KAT would be hidden much better on D with Siakam
    I have mentioned him multiple times in our forum before, I would love it if we could get him while keeping our core.

    I think it would be really tough unless they are selling off though and futures etc. have value (in which case ours are normally nice lol). Like most of our options at this level, a 3 team trade might be more likely if possible at all.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    How do you compare them in that sense? Did you watch Ben in the playoffs this year? Heís like the last option on the offensive end of the starters for the 6er. Ben doesnít shoot and is scared to get fouled on drives. That was a big problem for the 6ers in the post season. So while youíre praising his effeciency, his lack of aggressiveness actually hurt his team.

    Siakam has lead his team to the 2nd round as a first option. Simmons hasnít gotten any further despite having Embiid. Just looking at the post season Siakam took 16.5 attempts vs simmons 7.9. Thatís more than double attempts. What if if we switched their roles and had Simmons as the first option and Siakam playing off of Embiid? What would their respective efficiency look like then?

    Siakam is really a 2nd or 3rd option. The Raptors just donít have anyone better to put in that position so he was put there out of necessity. If he reverts back to being a 2nd or 3rd option like he was in our ship run, he would be much more comfortable and Iím willing to bet he would help Embiid get passed the 2nd round.
    Ben currently doesnt have the mental makeup for it, but I would probably still encourage him to shoot.

    He shot 62% from the field and 12ppg but stopped shooting more because he was shooting 34% from FT. If he shot 57% like he did past year, I could like with it. Fwiw, Siakam avg 17ppg on 40% shooting and .19% from 3 last playoffs he was in. So both were pretty bad.

    If this is a discussion of who I want as my best player leading my team, I would take Siakam (even though I think Ben is the better player), but I would want Ben if they were gonna be my 2nd best player.

  14. #29
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    My honest take is they shouldnít move Siakam. I think if thereís interest between Lowry and NOP pull a double S&T with Ball and Lowry. Pray Mobley falls to 4, or even force the issue some and add future picks for 3.

    FVV
    Ball
    OG
    Siakam
    Mobley

    If Siakam recovers from this shoulder surgery then thatís a good core moving forward. If he comes back and is ok but not great he can still be moved.


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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    We wouldnít give up both Siakam and the 4th pick let alone include another future first.

    Also our biggest needs are at 1&5.
    Why do you guys keep entertaining these offers? Why on earth would Toronto do this trade? To just have BB and FVV and OG? And Beal would take half of the cap space.

    Every proposal this guy does is hot awful garbage.

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