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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Only way is if he wins at least 4 more titles and he wins another MVP and DPOY within that time frame
    LBJ only has 4 total rings and has never won a DPOY. But he's considered top 3 easily.

    And he's 26 he could win another MVP and DPOY NEXT YEAR.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    In some ways, this is a little unfair to those players. We don't know how skilled they would be if they played in today's game.
    The game that became more skilled was built on the backs of those guys, guys who worked a job in the off-season and played in flat tops. It's not really fair to them to say they were "less skilled"
    It’s not fair, but it’s accurate. They may be far more skilled if they’d played today, but on the flip side their massive lack of athleticism in comparison would balance it out. I respect they built the foundation, but that’s why they get a “for their time” qualifier.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Giannis statistically the last three seasons has just been a better player than anything we've seen out of peak Kawhi. Also, Kawhi is constantly getting hurt and just kind of coasts during the regular season. He's only played in 70+ games in a season twice in 10 seasons. Giannis has done it six times in eight seasons, and the two exceptions were COVID-shortened years. There's a reason why Giannis has two MVPs and Kawhi has none.

    Fun stat: Giannis has played in 13 more games and has 1,100 more minutes played than Kawhi despite getting drafted two years after Kawhi.

    The first round exits are also a pretty misleading stat, because Kawhi was a supporting cast member on his first few Spurs teams, and he was hardly the alpha dog on the Spurs team that won him his first ring. He got the Finals MVP, but I don't know that he was the best player on that team.
    Agree. And while I'm not saying Kawhi didn't deserve his first finals, it's far from the most impressive finals MVP out there. He averaged 17/6/2 for pts/boards/assists and while he played good defense, LeBron still averaged 28. So we can give him credit for that, but that FMVP is no where near on the level of Kawhi's 2nd or Giannis's first. So it's hard to trumpet how he has 2 FMVP when that first one is a bit weak.

  4. #34
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    He would have basically what MJ had in 1991. 2 MVP's, 1 Finals MVP, 1 DPOY. MJ did have the scoring titles advantage though and the ALL NBA and DEFENSIVE TEAMS.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    In some ways, this is a little unfair to those players. We don't know how skilled they would be if they played in today's game.
    The game that became more skilled was built on the backs of those guys, guys who worked a job in the off-season and played in flat tops. It's not really fair to them to say they were "less skilled"
    The whole thing is really just actually dumb to compare anyways. We all do and I do it as well, but there's just no comparison. The quality of athlete and athletic training and all of that stuff that goes on is so impossibld to scale.

    And because basically none of those guys worked out specifically for athletics, the difference between the average nba level of athlete and the freak nba athletes was so much wider than it is today.

    Even comparing LeBron and Jordan is so tough when you look at caliber of athlete they played agianst, rule differences, player movement differences and all of that. But then having to also figure out how that compares to Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain is just crazy talk. There will never be a player as statistically dominant as Wilt and there will never be a player with a championship run like Russell. So realistically how do you actually compare Wilt and Giannis.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It’s not fair, but it’s accurate. They may be far more skilled if they’d played today, but on the flip side their massive lack of athleticism in comparison would balance it out. I respect they built the foundation, but that’s why they get a “for their time” qualifier.
    Yeah, I kinda think it is fair. If we were talking about Russell or Wilt or guys who peaked in the late 60s, early 70s, I'd maybe buy that. But I've watched Mikan highlights and tape from 50s NBA games. It's bad. Like YMCA rec league bad. George Mikan is 100% deserving of being a Hall of Famer. He's not deserving of being compared to vastly superior athletes who peaked in a superior sport against superior competition years later.


  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    IDK, because Giannis is in the east, Kawhi has played nearly his whole career in the west. The fact that Giannis has been bounced in the first round in the weak *** east does say something and that something isn't flattering.

    Okay but Kawhi played in the East with Toronto and won a title but Giannis if he was playing in the West I guarantee he still wins a title...plus Kawhi has never won a regular season MVP. Giannis has won 2 regular season MVPs back to back too take that in. Yeah in the playoffs Giannis has 1 Finals MVP whereas Kawhi has 2 Finals MVPs. My point being Giannis is younger than Kawhi and has plenty of time to surpass him. Hell Giannis on both ends of the floor in these past couple of years has been better than Kawhi.

  8. #38
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    Top 50 at best.

    People seem to unconsciously think that for every new NBA season, 10 previous ones are erased...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Top 50 at best.

    People seem to unconsciously think that for every new NBA season, 10 previous ones are erased...

    No he's top 30 at best

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    No he's top 30 at best
    who are the other 29?

  11. #41
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    KG was vastly more skilled and would benefit from todays rule changes more than most bigs from the 2k era. But was he as freakishly athletic as Giannis, how would Giannis look back then? I guess I have to let go of the past and just rate players against their peers abit more but in terms of just accolades, stats and impact on winning, Giannis has the credentials to best him. I just cant help but think that even if KG isn't as good as Giannis in todays league, I have no doubt that Giannis would be effected more by the era differences.

    So it would look like this

    2K Era: KG >> Giannis
    Today: Giannis > KG
    Random Highlight of the Month: * RARE - Zo DUNKS on Shaq *

  12. #42
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    People forget how freakishly athletic young KG was in the 90s when he first appeared.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I mean its fun to guess at his career trajectory but for all we know he could blow out his knee tomorrow (knocking on wood) so its really difficult to guess what the next 8 years of his career shapes to be.

    Its very hard to not like Giannis, he is such a likable personality so I do wish him a lot of success. I hope he goes down as one of the best bigs to ever play. But we shall see.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    People forget how freakishly athletic young KG was in the 90s when he first appeared.
    But how high do you rate KG?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I think he's already earned being in that top 25-30 conversation. If you compare him to Kawhi, who many on this site put in that same range, what has Kawhi done that Giannis hasn't? I think that with the Finals win, the iconic Game 6 performance and the Finals MVP, he's already surpassed him despite being four years younger. He's just the superior statistical player, has more regular season hardware and now has the same number of alpha dog championships.

    The other guy worth comparing him to is Durant, a similar player who had a similar career trajectory, but didn't win his Finals until after joining Golden State. Durant is a lock in my top 20 already with a decent chance to finish somewhere in that top 15 range and an outside chance to arguably deserve top 10 consideration if he could earn another ring or two. Durant's unquestionably the better scorer, but when you factor in Giannis' defense, the playmaking, and that alpha dog title and Finals MVP, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility he could pass Durant's legacy someday.

    If Giannis stays around long enough and does more superhuman things, I legitimately don't think it's impossible for him to be a top 10 guy some day. We cling to our lists and try to avoid recency bias as much as possible, but the man has surpassed an aging Lebron as the most statistically dominant player in the league. And now he's gotten over the championship hurdle at only 26, a year earlier than Lebron. The biggest challenge will be team success or lack therof. Can Milwaukee come back and do this again, or was this a fluke? If it was, will he have to look elsewhere for championships in a few seasons like Lebron and KD?
    The thing with Kawhi is that from '17 - '21 he's legitimately been one of the best playoff scorers in NBA history, so it's like, how do you value that vs Giannis's 2-way impact? Kawhi's defensive peak was no doubt in 2016, and while he's still been a plus defender since then his net impact is more driven on how you value that step up on offense come postseason time. Similar to Hakeem or Reggie in that regard.

    Their longevity is closer than I thought it was the more I think about it. Both guys have had roughly 4 MVP type seasons in terms of impact, with Kawhi being a clear top 50 player in at least a couple of the seasons preceding 2017. Giannis similar in that regards, where he was a clear all star in 2017, and top 75 player in 2016.

    I think Giannis vs Kawhi is super close, and honestly Kawhi's injuries might make me lean Giannis. It'll be really interesting to see how Giannis's career unfolds from here, because it definitely feels like that top 20 range is realistic. But his play style will also take a toll on his body, so we'll see how long his prime lasts.

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