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  1. #1
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    2021 Off-Season Thread

    Leafs protect following players for Tuesday's expansion draft..

    Forwards

    Auston Matthews
    John Tavares
    Mitch Marner
    William Nylander

    Defence

    Morgan Rielly
    TJ Brodie
    Jake Muzzin
    Justin Holl

  2. #2
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    Kind of interesting considering the trade for Jared McCann yesterday. I would imagine Kerfoot or Dermott are gone to Seattle. It's basically the four protected forwards plus Spezza and Simmonds coming back. Likely the Soup Man too. Basically need to fill 5 forward spots. Nick Robertson will likely take up a spot because they need him to, which isn't the smartest thing if he's not ready. He hasn't looked it so far to me. The flat cap sucks, but Dubas put this team, who has accomplished nothing, in a tough spot going forward.

    He better be a magician this offseason or it likely costs him his job. I think we only have 6 or 7 picks in the next two drafts. Which will clearly be used on guys under 6 feet tall and less than 170 pounds.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Kind of interesting considering the trade for Jared McCann yesterday. I would imagine Kerfoot or Dermott are gone to Seattle. It's basically the four protected forwards plus Spezza and Simmonds coming back. Likely the Soup Man too. Basically need to fill 5 forward spots. Nick Robertson will likely take up a spot because they need him to, which isn't the smartest thing if he's not ready. He hasn't looked it so far to me. The flat cap sucks, but Dubas put this team, who has accomplished nothing, in a tough spot going forward.

    He better be a magician this offseason or it likely costs him his job. I think we only have 6 or 7 picks in the next two drafts. Which will clearly be used on guys under 6 feet tall and less than 170 pounds.
    I pretty much totally disagree. Weíre in a better spot than we have been in for the last 20 years. Dubasí process has been fantastic. Iím more focused on the process than the results. Dubas cannot control the results. Dudes a prodigy.

  4. #4
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    Iím just surprised they protected holl.

    Whatís going on with price? He waved his no-movement clause so he can be exposed. Is he going to the kraken? If so - how can dubas work his way into this and scoop up price? Iíd be willing to give up quite a bit to add him to this core.

  5. #5
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    Draft is on the 21st. My bad.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Iím just surprised they protected holl.

    Whatís going on with price? He waved his no-movement clause so he can be exposed. Is he going to the kraken? If so - how can dubas work his way into this and scoop up price? Iíd be willing to give up quite a bit to add him to this core.
    I just can't see how you fit another 10 million dollar player on this team and fill out the rest of the roster with good depth players.

    Montreal has to know that Seattle won't take Price.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I pretty much totally disagree. Weíre in a better spot than we have been in for the last 20 years. Dubasí process has been fantastic. Iím more focused on the process than the results. Dubas cannot control the results. Dudes a prodigy.
    I don't really agree but I respect your opinion. We shall see this year. Results matter at this point. Especially when you handed Matthews that stupid contract. (Term, not AAV.) He's gone after the 5th year. Dubas totally mishandled negotiations with Nylander and it trickled to Marner and Matthews. Tampa look at their depth players, even though they have to lose some guys their depth is insane. That's what it takes to win. The Leafs can't afford that. Four guys won't win you a cup. Especially when your two best don't show up. It hasn't even won a friggin round. Washington took a loooong time. But they won rounds. Here.. nothing.

    I know I sound negative but 37 years of **** ups does that to a fella lol.
    Last edited by KingerSox; 07-18-2021 at 02:47 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    I don't really agree but I respect your opinion. We shall see this year. Results matter at this point. Especially when you handed Matthews that stupid contract. (Term, not AAV.) He's gone after the 5th year. Dubas totally mishandled negotiations with Nylander and it trickled to Marner and Matthews. Tampa look at their depth players, even though they have to lose some guys their depth is insane. That's what it takes to win. The Leafs can't afford that. Four guys won't win you a cup. Especially when your two best don't show up. It hasn't even won a friggin round. Washington took a loooong time. But they won rounds. Here.. nothing.

    I know I sound negative but 37 years of **** ups does that to a fella lol.
    That nylander contract is great.
    If we could offer Tampa taxes then we would be able to pay everyone less too.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    That nylander contract is great.
    If we could offer Tampa taxes then we would be able to pay everyone less too.
    It's great now, but at the time Dubas got taken. He gave him more than Pastranak and never should have AT THE TIME. He could of got him for less if he had the nuts to play a little hardball. Bob MacKenzie's words.. "Players and agents look at Dubas more as a friend than a boss." You can't have that. Ultimately I wish him well because I want the team to win. But our cap situation is his fault. It is a situation that happened before winning anything. It makes it incredibly hard to improve the team. Plus, outside of Robertson and Sandin.. which prospects are coming? Little to no help internally.

    When we started the rebuild years ago it was the best thing that happened to this team. They drafted the right guys, brought them up the right way. They just got taken with their RFA's. It cripples any ability to have any depth. Decent depth. That's how you win. Depth. Not 4 forwards making half the cap. Just doesn't work.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    It's great now, but at the time Dubas got taken. He gave him more than Pastranak and never should have AT THE TIME. He could of got him for less if he had the nuts to play a little hardball. Bob MacKenzie's words.. "Players and agents look at Dubas more as a friend than a boss." You can't have that. Ultimately I wish him well because I want the team to win. But our cap situation is his fault. It is a situation that happened before winning anything. It makes it incredibly hard to improve the team. Plus, outside of Robertson and Sandin.. which prospects are coming? Little to no help internally.

    When we started the rebuild years ago it was the best thing that happened to this team. They drafted the right guys, brought them up the right way. They just got taken with their RFA's. It cripples any ability to have any depth. Decent depth. That's how you win. Depth. Not 4 forwards making half the cap. Just doesn't work.
    DudeÖ you seriously suggesting dubas didnít play hardball with nylander? He played harder ball in that negotiation than any other. And the deal is fantastic. The only contract that is inflated is marner and only by 1 mil or maybe 2 mil.

    When you have talented players you have to pay them. Thatís how the world works. I would NOT prefer to have 20 mil in cap space and not have marner and nylander.

    This is just the Toronto media doing Toronto media things and I hope they donít ruin a good thing here. You think Lou would have done better? Because I couldnít disagree more.

    Weíve been trading assets to win now. Of course our fame isnít stacked lol. lilj still has a shot to be a top 4 D in the mold of bowmeester.
    We traded Johnson, brown, 1sts and specsÖ yet we still have some great specs coming through the system in Robertson and Sandin. Thatís the weird thing, not that our farm isnít stacked.

    What exactly would you have done differently along the way? Not start last season with marner and hope he accepts a contract a couple mil less after missing time? Or play that same hardball with matthews (because THAT will make him want to stay in Toronto right? Lol).

    What had Washington or Tampa won before they signed ovi and stamkos to their big (at the time) contracts? You gotta retain your top-end talent. Dudes process is on point.

  11. #11
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    Again, totally respect your opinion. There's been no talk around here for a while so I enjoy the discussion. But if Nylander was made to sit the year if he wouldn't take less than Dubas should have done that. It gets the message across that you won't be taken. That would of gotten Matthews on more term and Marner on a less AAV which would be so helpful now. If I find a positive out of those 3 contracts it's that the 3 of em are young. But it was botched from the the Nylander contract. That set the tone. You buckled for him so now you buckle for me. Dubas did play ball harder with Nylander. But ultimately he buckled at the last minute.

    We just aren't going to agree. That's ok. At least we're talking about a decent team now instead of when the waffles were getting tossed.
    Last edited by KingerSox; 07-19-2021 at 09:34 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Again, totally respect your opinion. There's been no talk around here for a while so I enjoy the discussion. But if Nylander was made to sit the year if he wouldn't take less than Dubas should have done that. It gets the message across that you won't be taken. That would of gotten Matthews on more term and Marner on a less AAV which would be so helpful now. If I find a positive out of those 3 contracts it's that the 3 of em are young. But it was botched from the the Nylander contract. That set the tone. You buckled for him so now you buckle for me. Dubas did play ball harder with Nylander. But ultimately he buckled at the last minute.

    We just aren't going to agree. That's ok. At least we're talking about a decent team now instead of when the waffles were getting tossed.
    Yeah I apologize for taking out all of my ďToronto mediaĒ frustration on you. I havenít had the opportunity to unload in defence to dubas yet because this forum is so slow and my friends arenít sports fans.
    I just hope Shan sees the big picture and doesnít bite on the hot takes. Itís frustrating when ppl think a couple mil in cap space while making enemies with your employees would fix everything. Imo the cap dangling that dubas has done to allow us to be over the cap in the playoffs easily makes up for that little extra coin.

    Itís my understanding that dubas and nylander found a middle ground, not that dubas caved and gave him exactly what he wanted. The contract was market value imo. Just because Pasternak signed a bad contract doesnít mean Nylander is expected to. Letís complain that matthews didnít sign a kucherov contract while we are at it?
    In both comps - the money is about the same after considering tax brackets.

  13. #13
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    I didn't feel you were taking any frustration out on me. I think we both disagree on Dubas' negotiation tactics. I'm the union president for my local and negotiations get heated, it's all posturing. Unless both sides resort to name calling then any difficult discussions are easily gotten over. I just think Dubas' was soft.

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    You mentioned being upset these guys got paid before ďwinning anythingĒ. Do you think dubas should have traded away their rights for draft picks or let them walk if they werenít willing to take a discount?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    You mentioned being upset these guys got paid before ďwinning anythingĒ. Do you think dubas should have traded away their rights for draft picks or let them walk if they werenít willing to take a discount?
    No need for either. Just call their bluff. I'm not saying instead of 6.9 for Nylander you could of got 5. But 6.4 helps. A little here, a little there is valuable space. Ask Dubas' about that. I'm sure he knows now.

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