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  1. #1
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    California's Power Jam- WSJ Editorial Board

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...am-11626042040

    I thought that this is a pretty interesting piece discussing not just California, but the nation at large in regards to Biden's policy proposals.

    Some interesting parts.
    California’s Independent System Operator (Caiso) on Friday and Saturday issued emergency alerts urging residents to conserve power during the evenings to avoid rolling blackouts. A wildfire in Oregon threatened transmission lines that import thousands of megawatts of hydropower that are needed when the sun starts to go down.


    Progressives blamed Texas’s power outage in February on its limited ability to import power from other states after its wind turbines froze and not enough natural gas plants could ramp up to compensate. But grids in neighboring states had little power to spare, which was the problem this weekend in California and will continue to be all summer.

    Rest assured, Caiso has a back-up plan: Snatch energy headed elsewhere. Caiso manages interconnections between utilities and power providers across the Western U.S. For instance, Arizona utilities contract with hydropower plants in the Northwest for power that is transmitted through California.

    Our electric utilities did the right thing and planned ahead, securing pre-negotiated contracts with utilities in the Pacific Northwest to ensure that critical hydropower would be available to Arizonans when it would be needed the most,” Arizona Corporation Commission Chairwoman Lea Márquez Peterson recently noted. California didn’t.

    FERC is saving California’s politicians from their green energy profligacy, and its ruling may cause power shortages across other Western states. Residents in other states may also have to pay more for power on the spot market. Utilities and their regulators in Nevada, Arizona, Oregon and New Mexico have protested California’s power grab.

    These states have also become more dependent on solar to meet their climate goals. Renewable energy poses a systemic risk to the grid that can’t be mitigated by merely building more transmission lines. If states like Arizona and Nevada were to import wind power from the Midwest, they’d still be vulnerable to the vagaries of weather.

    Climate irony alert: States are likely to lean on coal this summer as they scramble to keep the power on. Fossil fuels saved Californians this weekend as Gov. Gavin Newsom waived air quality regulations to allow gas-fired and diesel generators to run all out. “We recognize these are transitional days and months and years for the California grid,” Caiso CEO Elliot Mainzer said Friday.
    So the short of it is effectively, California is in an energy crunch because the states they usually buy power from don't really have much to spare. So they are effectively stealing power that's supposed to go to their neighboring states, which is pissing off all of them.
    All of these states have become heavily reliant on *renewables* which are inherently unpredictable, which is part of California's problem as well.
    The solution that the Biden admin has of building more power lines doesn't really solve the problem if the states they're supposed to be getting them from don't have any spare power either.

    Also, our leaders in GREEN ENERGY are turning on coal and gas facilities to make up for the shortage.
    Last edited by ciaban2.0; 07-12-2021 at 12:20 PM.

  2. #2
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    The fact that states like Utah and Arizona don't just have like 40% of their land covered in solar panels absolutely befuddles me. The sun is just beating down on them all day long and we're not collecting very much of it.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  3. #3
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    I think what this demonstrates most of all, is the fact that if your serious about having a reliable energy supply and reducing C02 levels, than nuclear really is the way to go.

  4. #4
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    We will bury the spent nuclear rods in your backyard
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    We will bury the spent nuclear rods in your backyard
    That's because we aren't recycling the spent nuclear rod's as other industrial first-world countries do. And even then the amount of nuclear waste we have is totally minuscule.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The fact that states like Utah and Arizona don't just have like 40% of their land covered in solar panels absolutely befuddles me. The sun is just beating down on them all day long and we're not collecting very much of it.
    Besides the fact that doing so would destroy local wild ecosystems, you run into the storage problem. There are wind turbines and solar panels that get turned off when they're productive because there is nowhere to store the energy, also, the sun doesn't beat down on these places at night.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The fact that states like Utah and Arizona don't just have like 40% of their land covered in solar panels absolutely befuddles me. The sun is just beating down on them all day long and we're not collecting very much of it.
    The energy is free, collecting it is not, but the big technological issue is transmission and storage.

    And covering the planet in solar panels actually increases the temperature of the environment where they are installed and changes wind currents. It also has an environmental impact in the mining of the materials used to make the solar panels.

    I've seen estimates that power generated in Oregon that is then transmitted to LA has a loss of as much as 20%, more when the temperature is higher.

    Storage is a BIG issue.

    And this CA issue is BEFORE they take their 1 remaining nuclear plant offline that generates 18000GWh which is ~9% of California's power needs and 23% of clean energy generation in the state. Nights with calm weather and days with high temps and high winds both bring down power all over the state already.

    The simple answer is there is no simple answer. I do think these decisions are being made using emotions more than science.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    We will bury the spent nuclear rods in your backyard
    Do you think nuclear waste for US power generation is a bigger issue than burning coal, oil, and natural gas in the short term?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Do you think nuclear waste for US power generation is a bigger issue than burning coal, oil, and natural gas in the short term?
    I am not for any of them, so it isn't an either-or thing with me. Sure the the odds of something going wrong with a nuclear reactor is a fraction point of one happening, but with the increase of cyber attacks on our infrastructure, I am even more against nuclear power.

    We should have been gung-ho on alternative energy decades ago, so now we have to play catch up.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I am not for any of them, so it isn't an either-or thing with me. Sure the the odds of something going wrong with a nuclear reactor is a fraction point of one happening, but with the increase of cyber attacks on our infrastructure, I am even more against nuclear power.

    We should have been gung-ho on alternative energy decades ago, so now we have to play catch up.
    What is the "alternative energy" that is available today? Hydro, solar, and wind we are well versed in. Hydro is pretty maxed in the US already since we can't really flood too many more miles of land with modern laws and private land ownership. Solar and wind have major storage and transmission issues. Tidal works but it is resisted for what it might do to the habitats, and it's not very efficient.

    CA gets 52% of it's energy from fuel of one sort or another ~9 of that is nuclear, and while the nuclear is going away and more solar/wind is being added the gaps between demand and available power are going to be filled by fuel and it's a LONG LONG way from getting to a 100% solution. Right now I'd say it's impossible without some major technological leaps.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Do you think nuclear waste for US power generation is a bigger issue than burning coal, oil, and natural gas in the short term?
    We should shoot it into space along with Jeff Bezos.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    We should shoot it into space along with Jeff Bezos.
    That's a very costly solution, unlike the chemicals in solar panels such as lead, uranium will stop being dangerous, it's called half-life for a reason.

    Were already more than capable of storing these spent rods safely.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    What is the "alternative energy" that is available today? Hydro, solar, and wind we are well versed in. Hydro is pretty maxed in the US already since we can't really flood too many more miles of land with modern laws and private land ownership. Solar and wind have major storage and transmission issues. Tidal works but it is resisted for what it might do to the habitats, and it's not very efficient.

    CA gets 52% of it's energy from fuel of one sort or another ~9 of that is nuclear, and while the nuclear is going away and more solar/wind is being added the gaps between demand and available power are going to be filled by fuel and it's a LONG LONG way from getting to a 100% solution. Right now I'd say it's impossible without some major technological leaps.
    Took us ten years to get to the moon. Out of that accomplishment many side benefits were also achieve for public use. You can't say we didn't drag our feet on alternative energy and it's problems.

    "But the moon is so far away, it's dangerous, we don't have the technology, it is impossible to do right now, we got a rock in our shoes."
    Last edited by WES445; 07-13-2021 at 09:09 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Took us ten years to get to the moon. Out of that accomplishment many side benefits were also achieve for public use. You can't say we didn't drag our feet on alternative energy and it's problems.

    "But the moon is so far away, it's dangerous, we don't have the technology, we got a rock in our shoes."
    Or we could use the technology that's right in front of us ALA Nukes.
    Also, I've been reassured by climate activists and elected representatives that we don't have 10 years. So by the time we develop these alternatives it will already be to late.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    That's a very costly solution, unlike the chemicals in solar panels such as lead, uranium will stop being dangerous, it's called half-life for a reason.

    Were already more than capable of storing these spent rods safely.
    To be fair, we are capable, but not really able to store them safely. The US has been falling all over itself for decades screwing up storage solutions.

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