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  1. #1
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    Politicization of worship

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin...164036864.html

    Saw this article about a Priest in LaCrosse, WI, who was removed from his parish for posting videos on youtube saying you can't be a Catholic and a Democrat and if you're a Democrat you will burn in hell.

    I've also noticed many other religious leaders during Trump's Presidency that seemed to inject politics into their sermons. There are also churches in the South that are vocally anti-Republican.


    Do you think religion is becoming more politicized in the US? Should it be?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin...164036864.html

    Saw this article about a Priest in LaCrosse, WI, who was removed from his parish for posting videos on youtube saying you can't be a Catholic and a Democrat and if you're a Democrat you will burn in hell.

    I've also noticed many other religious leaders during Trump's Presidency that seemed to inject politics into their sermons. There are also churches in the South that are vocally anti-Republican.


    Do you think religion is becoming more politicized in the US? Should it be?
    Well since religion is by definition irrational it shouldn't be surprising that the GOP has coopted the "Christian" message of survival of the fittest, hate your enemies, do everything you can to enhance the already wealthy etc. Very Christian of those good republican Christians. That was sarcasm by the way - Jesus would have been a modern day socialist.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Well since religion is by definition irrational it shouldn't be surprising that the GOP has coopted the "Christian" message of survival of the fittest, hate your enemies, do everything you can to enhance the already wealthy etc. Very Christian of those good republican Christians. That was sarcasm by the way - Jesus would have been a modern day socialist.
    Faith in the supernatural is indeed irrational, and certainly that aspect of religion fits the bill.

    But religion writ large is more than faith in the supernatural. It is largely an earthly construct, complete with all the machinery of institutional organization. Thus religion is, by its very palpable presence in our various cultures, both a political and an economic animal.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Saw this article about a Priest in LaCrosse, WI, who was removed from his parish for posting videos on youtube saying you can't be a Catholic and a Democrat and if you're a Democrat you will burn in hell. I've also noticed many other religious leaders during Trump's Presidency that seemed to inject politics into their sermons. There are also churches in the South that are vocally anti-Republican.

    Do you think religion is becoming more politicized in the US? Should it be?
    Should this be the case? In light of my observations above, I am not sure it can be avoided.

    Is politicization of worship more prevalent in 21-st century America? Possibly. Though where do religious institutions draw the line regarding what is worship and what is not?

    As much as we in the US, for example, might imagine that there is separation of church and state, there is significant overlap, and I imagine that the lines blur all the time. I mean, the civil rights movement was as much a religious enterprise as it was a social/political/economic one. Likewise, the so-called pro-life movement.

    However, what the priest in question promotes may well be overstepping the line — though it appears as if the priest was not saying any of this in a worship function (although maybe some people worship at the alter of YouTube, I don’t know).

    EDIT: And you are correct about Jesus probably being a socialist.
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-17-2021 at 08:46 AM.

  4. #4
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    We have an argument going in the politics forum about allowing voting on Sundays because NOT allowing it is voter suppression...with the inference the votes suppressed are Democrats........but to lefties, that's a viable argument.

    Religion by definition is irrational?!
    Geebus you guys are fun to have discussions with........it's irrational TO YOU, because while the religious sees evidence of His presence everywhere, you do not...so, TO YOU, it's irrational to think He exists.

    Have your opinion, that's fine....but it's still your opinion, yet you state it like it's fact...the same way you think the religious state THEIR belief as fact.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    We have an argument going in the politics forum about allowing voting on Sundays because NOT allowing it is voter suppression...with the inference the votes suppressed are Democrats........but to lefties, that's a viable argument.

    Religion by definition is irrational?!
    Geebus you guys are fun to have discussions with........it's irrational TO YOU, because while the religious sees evidence of His presence everywhere, you do not...so, TO YOU, it's irrational to think He exists.

    Have your opinion, that's fine....but it's still your opinion, yet you state it like it's fact...the same way you think the religious state THEIR belief as fact.
    Well the discussion about Sunday voting is more about voting restrictions, there’s just an ancillary connection to religion because the imitative they are trying to block is souls to the polls. But you are right in that souls to the polls is a politicization of the church.

    I saw an article where a pastor said Critical Race Theory is dividing his church.

    While I don’t believe I think those that do should be able to worship without judgement on non-religious matters. It’s sad to me people can’t practice their faith without having to get caught up in non-faith related issues.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Have your opinion, that's fine....but it's still your opinion, yet you state it like it's fact...the same way you think the religious state THEIR belief as fact.
    Probably because the religious (like the irreligious) do often enough state their belief as fact. To wit,

    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    [Human activities] are the result of [God] allowing His creations to exercise free will...all of which are imperfect, all of which are sinners.
    This (the bolded in particular) sounds very much like it is stated as fact, rather than opinion. As does this, complete with the gratuitous middle finger at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    You have no evidence. It's we, more than one. It's clearly the Trinity. There is no alternative explanation. You wanted to be shown you were incorrect and you have. A simple thanks would be fine.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    [

    Probably because the religious (like the irreligious) do often enough state their belief as fact. To wit,



    This (the bolded in particular) sounds very much like it is stated as fact, rather than opinion. As does this, complete with the gratuitous middle finger at the end.
    Are you suggesting some people are perfect?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Are you suggesting some people are perfect?
    No, but they are not all sinners.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    No, but they are not all sinners.
    but then you're just arguing semantics and don't like using the word sin for their imperfections
    ...it's just a reverse of a Christian not liking use of the word marriage for homosexuals...even though another name wouldn't change what it is
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    but then you're just arguing semantics and don't like using the word sin for their imperfections
    ...it's just a reverse of a Christian not liking use of the word marriage for homosexuals...even though another name wouldn't change what it is
    As an atheist, I would argue that my imperfections have nothing to do with God. So when i do something I probably ought not to do, I wouldn't call that "sinning." I'd just say, "I did something wrong because I'm not a perfect person."

    I don't' acknowledge sin anymore than I acknowledge God. But when I do something wrong, it carries with it its own consequences which have nothing to do with God.

    Make sense?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    As an atheist, I would argue that my imperfections have nothing to do with God. So when i do something I probably ought not to do, I wouldn't call that "sinning." I'd just say, "I did something wrong because I'm not a perfect person."

    I don't' acknowledge sin anymore than I acknowledge God. But when I do something wrong, it carries with it its own consequences which have nothing to do with God.
    Thank you for the even-handed response.

    Mine was not nearly as rational.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Thank you for the even-handed response.

    Mine was not nearly as rational.
    Hardly. I just saw you being led down a rabbit hole.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Hardly. I just saw you being led down a rabbit hole.
    that's no rabbit hole, it's just once again semantics
    you don't acknowledge sin, but you acknowledge doing things wrong...while from a Christian standpoint that can be the same thing with a different name, you just don't want to use the name that infers you're acknowledging God

    if I drink a Coke and call it pop and you drink a Coke and call it soda...it's still a Coke
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    that's no rabbit hole, it's just once again semantics
    you don't acknowledge sin, but you acknowledge doing things wrong...while from a Christian standpoint that can be the same thing with a different name, you just don't want to use the name that infers you're acknowledging God

    if I drink a Coke and call it pop and you drink a Coke and call it soda...it's still a Coke
    neither a coke nor pop nor soda involve a supernatural concept. But when you take something I do wrong and call it a sin, that's exactly what you're invoking.

    How bout this:

    You may sin. But I never do.

    Does that work for you?
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 07-25-2021 at 05:11 PM.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    neither a coke nor pop nor soda involve a supernatural concept. But when you take something I do wrong and call it a sin, that's exactly what you're invoking.

    How bout this:

    You may sin. But I never do.

    Does that work for you?
    You can call something you do wrong whatever helps you sleep at night, and I'll do the same.
    Still feels overly sensitive to me while at the same time non-religious people tend to act like the religious are the oversensitive ones, but OK.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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