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  1. #1
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    Politicization of worship

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin...164036864.html

    Saw this article about a Priest in LaCrosse, WI, who was removed from his parish for posting videos on youtube saying you can't be a Catholic and a Democrat and if you're a Democrat you will burn in hell.

    I've also noticed many other religious leaders during Trump's Presidency that seemed to inject politics into their sermons. There are also churches in the South that are vocally anti-Republican.


    Do you think religion is becoming more politicized in the US? Should it be?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin...164036864.html

    Saw this article about a Priest in LaCrosse, WI, who was removed from his parish for posting videos on youtube saying you can't be a Catholic and a Democrat and if you're a Democrat you will burn in hell.

    I've also noticed many other religious leaders during Trump's Presidency that seemed to inject politics into their sermons. There are also churches in the South that are vocally anti-Republican.


    Do you think religion is becoming more politicized in the US? Should it be?
    Well since religion is by definition irrational it shouldn't be surprising that the GOP has coopted the "Christian" message of survival of the fittest, hate your enemies, do everything you can to enhance the already wealthy etc. Very Christian of those good republican Christians. That was sarcasm by the way - Jesus would have been a modern day socialist.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Well since religion is by definition irrational it shouldn't be surprising that the GOP has coopted the "Christian" message of survival of the fittest, hate your enemies, do everything you can to enhance the already wealthy etc. Very Christian of those good republican Christians. That was sarcasm by the way - Jesus would have been a modern day socialist.
    Faith in the supernatural is indeed irrational, and certainly that aspect of religion fits the bill.

    But religion writ large is more than faith in the supernatural. It is largely an earthly construct, complete with all the machinery of institutional organization. Thus religion is, by its very palpable presence in our various cultures, both a political and an economic animal.

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Saw this article about a Priest in LaCrosse, WI, who was removed from his parish for posting videos on youtube saying you can't be a Catholic and a Democrat and if you're a Democrat you will burn in hell. I've also noticed many other religious leaders during Trump's Presidency that seemed to inject politics into their sermons. There are also churches in the South that are vocally anti-Republican.

    Do you think religion is becoming more politicized in the US? Should it be?
    Should this be the case? In light of my observations above, I am not sure it can be avoided.

    Is politicization of worship more prevalent in 21-st century America? Possibly. Though where do religious institutions draw the line regarding what is worship and what is not?

    As much as we in the US, for example, might imagine that there is separation of church and state, there is significant overlap, and I imagine that the lines blur all the time. I mean, the civil rights movement was as much a religious enterprise as it was a social/political/economic one. Likewise, the so-called pro-life movement.

    However, what the priest in question promotes may well be overstepping the line ó though it appears as if the priest was not saying any of this in a worship function (although maybe some people worship at the alter of YouTube, I donít know).

    EDIT: And you are correct about Jesus probably being a socialist.
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-17-2021 at 08:46 AM.

  4. #4
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    We have an argument going in the politics forum about allowing voting on Sundays because NOT allowing it is voter suppression...with the inference the votes suppressed are Democrats........but to lefties, that's a viable argument.

    Religion by definition is irrational?!
    Geebus you guys are fun to have discussions with........it's irrational TO YOU, because while the religious sees evidence of His presence everywhere, you do not...so, TO YOU, it's irrational to think He exists.

    Have your opinion, that's fine....but it's still your opinion, yet you state it like it's fact...the same way you think the religious state THEIR belief as fact.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    We have an argument going in the politics forum about allowing voting on Sundays because NOT allowing it is voter suppression...with the inference the votes suppressed are Democrats........but to lefties, that's a viable argument.

    Religion by definition is irrational?!
    Geebus you guys are fun to have discussions with........it's irrational TO YOU, because while the religious sees evidence of His presence everywhere, you do not...so, TO YOU, it's irrational to think He exists.

    Have your opinion, that's fine....but it's still your opinion, yet you state it like it's fact...the same way you think the religious state THEIR belief as fact.
    Well the discussion about Sunday voting is more about voting restrictions, thereís just an ancillary connection to religion because the imitative they are trying to block is souls to the polls. But you are right in that souls to the polls is a politicization of the church.

    I saw an article where a pastor said Critical Race Theory is dividing his church.

    While I donít believe I think those that do should be able to worship without judgement on non-religious matters. Itís sad to me people canít practice their faith without having to get caught up in non-faith related issues.

  6. #6
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    [
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Have your opinion, that's fine....but it's still your opinion, yet you state it like it's fact...the same way you think the religious state THEIR belief as fact.
    Probably because the religious (like the irreligious) do often enough state their belief as fact. To wit,

    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    [Human activities] are the result of [God] allowing His creations to exercise free will...all of which are imperfect, all of which are sinners.
    This (the bolded in particular) sounds very much like it is stated as fact, rather than opinion. As does this, complete with the gratuitous middle finger at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    You have no evidence. It's we, more than one. It's clearly the Trinity. There is no alternative explanation. You wanted to be shown you were incorrect and you have. A simple thanks would be fine.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    [

    Probably because the religious (like the irreligious) do often enough state their belief as fact. To wit,



    This (the bolded in particular) sounds very much like it is stated as fact, rather than opinion. As does this, complete with the gratuitous middle finger at the end.
    Are you suggesting some people are perfect?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Are you suggesting some people are perfect?
    No, but they are not all sinners.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    You can call something you do wrong whatever helps you sleep at night, and I'll do the same.
    Still feels overly sensitive to me while at the same time non-religious people tend to act like the religious are the oversensitive ones, but OK.
    Point Iíd like to make is I donít appreciate being called a sinner based on your beliefs of a God. You want to say youíre a sinner, fine. But leave me out of it. I donít appreciate the name calling.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Point Iíd like to make is I donít appreciate being called a sinner based on your beliefs of a God. You want to say youíre a sinner, fine. But leave me out of it. I donít appreciate the name calling.
    Never in a million years did I perceive saying the proverbial 'we all', not anyone specifically, a sinner would be taken personally AND as name calling. If my belief is that we're all sinners, that includes myself and everyone I love. I didn't use the word specifically/individually towards you or anyone else. To be denigrating, I'd have to use a name that inferred a person was below me somehow, but I'm a sinner, too.

    I'd like you to think about some of the words that have been used regarding my beliefs and tell me if you're still feeling bad about it.

    Imagine that, using religious terms in a religious discussion on a religion forum....weird!
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Never in a million years did I perceive saying the proverbial 'we all', not anyone specifically, a sinner would be taken personally AND as name calling. If my belief is that we're all sinners, that includes myself and everyone I love. I didn't use the word specifically/individually towards you or anyone else. To be denigrating, I'd have to use a name that inferred a person was below me somehow, but I'm a sinner, too.

    I'd like you to think about some of the words that have been used regarding my beliefs and tell me if you're still feeling bad about it.

    Imagine that, using religious terms in a religious discussion on a religion forum....weird!
    Donít call me a sinner. This imperfect man doesnít sin.

  12. #12
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    I say all humans are sinners because, from a Christian standpoint, all humans are sinners.

    But fine if the word is that egregious to the two of you I'll just refer to you as imperfect. Better?

    Understand, too, when I say attacked...I mean this is still a few people who will likely never meet personally having discussions by means of a forum on a sports site.....who quite likely could still have an enjoyable time getting together for a beer if they ever DID meet..and just stayed away from topics like this.

    and for the record, even from a Christian standpoint, we all know we've done bad things and will continue to, most of us just don't do most of those bad things intentionally.....and we (Christians) just understand we'll have to answer for them eventually...........so we aren't necessarily viewing people, including ourselves, as bad people
    Last edited by SiteWolf; 07-26-2021 at 11:06 AM.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I say all humans are sinners because, from a Christian standpoint, all humans are sinners.

    But fine if the word is that egregious to the two of you I'll just refer to you as imperfect. Better?

    Understand, too, when I say attacked...I mean this is still a few people who will likely never meet personally having discussions by means of a forum on a sports site.....who quite likely could still have an enjoyable time getting together for a beer if they ever DID meet..and just stayed away from topics like this.

    and for the record, even from a Christian standpoint, we all know we've done bad things and will continue to, most of us just don't do most of those bad things intentionally.....and we (Christians) just understand we'll have to answer for them eventually...........so we aren't necessarily viewing people, including ourselves, as bad people
    I've yet to meet someone who is perfect. I think everyone is imperfect. I'm perfectly (lol, yes, ironic) fine with leaving it at that.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I've yet to meet someone who is perfect. I think everyone is imperfect. I'm perfectly (lol, yes, ironic) fine with leaving it at that.
    I have a saying I use when I'm admitting to a mistake or if someone calls me on something.
    "If I was perfect, I wouldn't still be here."
    (which I realize doesn't work nearly as well for a non-believer)
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I have a saying I use when I'm admitting to a mistake or if someone calls me on something.
    "If I was perfect, I wouldn't still be here."
    (which I realize doesn't work nearly as well for a non-believer)
    My guess is that if you were perfect, you would never have been here in the first place; perfection is an ideal, and one that has no place in this here material world.

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