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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    First para……after I asked which war.

    Second para……you never mentioned Vietnam. If you did, show me.

    Fourth para……it means what I said……LeMay, to his credit, (like you would actually give it to him) was instrumental in winning WWII (that was the one against the Japanese) and developing US Air power, structure and tactics in the cold war years that followed,

    You seem to be running down LeMay and I was simply pointing out some of his accomplishments.

    What's with the "Umms?" Is that supposed to indicate that I may have missed something because obviously I did not.
    In response to the post in which you wrote, “Turn it [Afganistan] into the world's biggest bombing range. Drop a few bombs a month over there from here on our until they get the message………whatever that message may be. That's all those jokers understand”, I was basing my reference to LeMay on his well-known comment about the war in Vietnam (In his 1965 autobiography…LeMay is quoted as saying his response to North Vietnam would be to demand that "they've got to draw in their horns and stop their aggression, or we're going to bomb them back into the Stone Age.”).

    I am sorry you missed that, and I apologize for not making it clearer.

    Bottom lines: we lost the wars in Vietnam and Afganistan despite alleged superior resources; we were ultimately unable to achieve our goal in Iraq; we managed only a stalemate in Korea; and god knows what we call the outcome — if there even is one — of our so-called war on terrorism.

  2. #62
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    Even if you contest the idea that we lost these wars, what was the last major conflict we actually won? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

    We haven't legitimately won a major conflict in a long time, which is pretty crazy for the undisputed most powerful nation on earth.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Serious question. Are you ever not a drama queen?.
    Who knows.

    But — funny thing — he’s right.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Even if you contest the idea that we lost these wars, what was the last major conflict we actually won? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

    We haven't legitimately won a major conflict in a long time, which is pretty crazy for the undisputed most powerful nation on earth.
    Did we lose any of them or did we just give up and go home???

    I dunno.

    Hard to believe that we could not have won these wars if we did not go all out to do so. You can't have sort of a war or a nice war or something like a war. You are either waging war to win or should not be there at all.

    Problems with Vietnam and Afghanistan (and there were many) was that soldiers were there for a brief period of time. The day they got in country they knew when they would leave. The closer you got to departure date the more careful you became. In Vietnam. soldiers didn't want to be around the FNGs (Effin New Guys) as they were green and unseasoned which equals dangerous. They didn't want to be around the "shorttimers" (leaving soon) as they were considered overly cautious in trying to stay alive. Also dangerous. Not good formulas for combat. You cannot fight to win like this. I also hate to admit it but in VN we were just not very good soldiers. Well trained and well equipped but way short on discipline. Officers and non-coms alike. I couldn't wait to get out. I am much more impressed with today's military and if I was in today, I might consider it as a career. No way back then. The film Platoon captured the essence of VN pretty well as did certain scenes in Apocalypse Now.

    Bottom line is you are either in it to win it or don't get in it at all. VN and Afghanistan are the best examples of this.

    And you mention "last major conflict"……some would argue that these sloppy little wars prevented the "major conflict."

    I dunno.

  5. #65
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    Sluggo what was the point of both wars?
    HELLO

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Did we lose any of them or did we just give up and go home???

    I dunno.

    Hard to believe that we could not have won these wars if we did not go all out to do so. You can't have sort of a war or a nice war or something like a war. You are either waging war to win or should not be there at all.

    Problems with Vietnam and Afghanistan (and there were many) was that soldiers were there for a brief period of time. The day they got in country they knew when they would leave. The closer you got to departure date the more careful you became. In Vietnam. soldiers didn't want to be around the FNGs (Effin New Guys) as they were green and unseasoned which equals dangerous. They didn't want to be around the "shorttimers" (leaving soon) as they were considered overly cautious in trying to stay alive. Also dangerous. Not good formulas for combat. You cannot fight to win like this. I also hate to admit it but in VN we were just not very good soldiers. Well trained and well equipped but way short on discipline. Officers and non-coms alike. I couldn't wait to get out. I am much more impressed with today's military and if I was in today, I might consider it as a career. No way back then. The film Platoon captured the essence of VN pretty well as did certain scenes in Apocalypse Now.

    Bottom line is you are either in it to win it or don't get in it at all. VN and Afghanistan are the best examples of this.

    And you mention "last major conflict"……some would argue that these sloppy little wars prevented the "major conflict."

    I dunno.
    Yes it’s hard to maintain discipline in Vietnam when it’s a bunch of people who were forced to be there. That was the biggest conceptual problem, they didn’t want to be there so how could you expect them to go above and beyond the call of duty?

    I’d say the difference between losing and giving up and going home isn’t much.

    As for stopping major conflicts, maybe that’s true, maybe not. Not sure which major power we staged war off by going into Afghanistan, particularly after we had just seen the Russians do the exact same thing and fail. Oddly enough, Russia admitted their failure a decade sooner than we did.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I’d say the difference between losing and giving up and going home isn’t much.
    I suppose technically that one is a forfeit and the other a loss.

    However, and check me if I am wrong, but I believe they both end up in the same column (L).

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Sluggo what was the point of both wars?
    Don't really know.

    I guess in Afghanistan we went it to spank a few people for 9/11.

    Other than that????

    Don't know.'
    Interesting sidelight about VN………I spent two years there and I don't think I saw one single bird, Think about that for a second. No birds and pretty much zero wildlife.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Don't really know.

    I guess in Afghanistan we went it to spank a few people for 9/11.

    Other than that????

    Don't know.'
    Interesting sidelight about VN………I spent two years there and I don't think I saw one single bird, Think about that for a second. No birds and pretty much zero wildlife.
    The purpose was to look like we were doing something even if we didn't actually need to do that specific thing. It was an effort to look macho. With Iraq, it was to get back at Saddam for embarrassing and trying to kill GHWB. GWB took us into war in that nation in order to avenge his dad and nothing more. There was not nor were there ever weapons of mass destruction.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The purpose was to look like we were doing something even if we didn't actually need to do that specific thing. It was an effort to look macho. With Iraq, it was to get back at Saddam for embarrassing and trying to kill GHWB. GWB took us into war in that nation in order to avenge his dad and nothing more. There was not nor were there ever weapons of mass destruction.
    Your answers are as good as any. I have no idea as to the whys and wherefores.

    Regarding the WMDs………I think they were there and were moved. Possibly to Syria. Too many people and intel agencies agreed on this and Saddam did use such weapons against his own people. But maybe not. Who knows???

    Maybe Ouzay or Pussay had em but, again, who knows.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Your answers are as good as any. I have no idea as to the whys and wherefores.

    Regarding the WMDs………I think they were there and were moved. Possibly to Syria. Too many people and intel agencies agreed on this and Saddam did use such weapons against his own people. But maybe not. Who knows???

    Maybe Ouzay or Pussay had em but, again, who knows.
    The people who said there were WMDs in Iraq are the same people who tried to take down Saddam in the late 80’s and failed then. They used the same media game.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Don't really know.
    Ever get mad about wasting so much taxpayer money on a war you don't even understand why we fought? Is it more important to do that stuff than, I don't know...investing that money in America/Americans?

    You guys shout and scream about government spending, the debt...whatever you can think of...whenever any politician tries to do anything that might directly help Americans out. Wasting trillions on trillions on wars? Whatever!!! It is what it is!!

    It's so confounding. Y'all make no sense. Maybe you just want as many people to be as miserable as y'all are? Seriously. It's baffling.
    Last edited by ManRam; 08-13-2021 at 09:09 PM.
    HELLO

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Ever get mad about wasting so much taxpayer money on a war you don't even understand why we fought? Is it more important to do that stuff than, I don't know...investing that money in America/Americans?

    You guys shout and scream about government spending, the debt...whatever you can think of...whenever any politician tries to do anything that might directly help Americans out. Wasting trillions on trillions on wars? Whatever!!! It is what it is!!

    It's so confounding. Y'all make no sense. Maybe you just want as many people to be as miserable as y'all are? Seriously. It's baffling.
    American taxpayer money should be invested in Americans and not foreigners…until someone wants to invest it in Americans…then it’s socialism.

  14. #74
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    America spends a number that doesn’t exist on military and loses another war, just like getting spanked in Vietnam.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Ever get mad about wasting so much taxpayer money on a war you don't even understand why we fought? Is it more important to do that stuff than, I don't know...investing that money in America/Americans?

    You guys shout and scream about government spending, the debt...whatever you can think of...whenever any politician tries to do anything that might directly help Americans out. Wasting trillions on trillions on wars? Whatever!!! It is what it is!!

    It's so confounding. Y'all make no sense. Maybe you just want as many people to be as miserable as y'all are? Seriously. It's baffling.
    But it makes perfect sense when you think about it. All these so-called patriots really care about is making money for themselves and their kind. Wars are great for that.

    You don’t think Cheney and his buddies didn’t make millions upon millions off of a war doomed to fail from the outset? Of course he did, as did everyone at Haliburton, et al.

    Every piece of military equipment that goes belly up is just money in the bank for defense contractors.

    “Nation building?” A perfectly slimy phrase for what it really is: make money destroying a nation and then make money allegedly rebuilding a nation. What a joke.

    It’s trillions of dollars, sure, but a lot of it ends up in the hands of Americans, particularly in the hands those who have aready gamed the system (and then the best part: they essentially launder it offshore rather than pay taxes on it).

    It’s a win-win for all the rich assclumps.

    And most conventional conservative eat up this crap for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

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