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  1. #736
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    UPDATE: “Multiple sources including those close to talks said a proposed framework including Raptors guards Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the 4th overall pick in Thursday’s draft for Simmons was rejected by Toronto.” [emoji2962][emoji2962]

    (via @HPbasketball)


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  2. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    UPDATE: “Multiple sources including those close to talks said a proposed framework including Raptors guards Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the 4th overall pick in Thursday’s draft for Simmons was rejected by Toronto.” [emoji2962][emoji2962]

    (via @HPbasketball)


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    Sheesh, that's tough.

  3. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    UPDATE: “Multiple sources including those close to talks said a proposed framework including Raptors guards Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the 4th overall pick in Thursday’s draft for Simmons was rejected by Toronto.” [emoji2962][emoji2962]

    (via @HPbasketball)


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    I mean that’s a huge package lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  4. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Sheesh, that's tough.
    Well if Lowry were to get that 3/$90mil that would mean another $35 mil in salaries coming from the Sixers.

    Options:
    Harris alone.
    Green S&T, with Curry and Thybulle.
    Green S&T with Curry and Maxey.

    I would wonder if this is a half baked report with Harris going somewhere else to make up the salary difference.

    Or a 3 Teamer:
    Lowry, FVV, OG, 4 to Philly
    Simmons, McCollum, DJJ to Toronto
    Harris, Green to Portland

    Philly:
    Lowry
    FVV
    OG
    Maxey, Thybulle, 4 packages for a PF
    Embiid

    Toronto
    McCollum
    Trent
    DJJ
    Siakam
    Simmons

    Portland
    Lillard
    Green
    Powell
    Harris
    Nurkic

    Just solved issues for 3 teams. Lol.


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  5. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Well if Lowry were to get that 3/$90mil that would mean another $35 mil in salaries coming from the Sixers.

    Options:
    Harris alone.
    Green S&T, with Curry and Thybulle.
    Green S&T with Curry and Maxey.

    I would wonder if this is a half baked report with Harris going somewhere else to make up the salary difference.

    Or a 3 Teamer:
    Lowry, FVV, OG, 4 to Philly
    Simmons, McCollum, DJJ to Toronto
    Harris, Green to Portland

    Philly:
    Lowry
    FVV
    OG
    Maxey, Thybulle, 4 packages for a PF
    Embiid

    Toronto
    McCollum
    Trent
    DJJ
    Siakam
    Simmons

    Portland
    Lillard
    Green
    Powell
    Harris
    Nurkic

    Just solved issues for 3 teams. Lol.


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    I don't love it for any of the teams [emoji28]

  6. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    I don't love it for any of the teams [emoji28]
    None of the teams would do that trade anyway.

  7. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    I don't love it for any of the teams [emoji28]
    The issue at the core though is if that’s what Morey asked for there has to be more coming from Philly because of that Lowry will demand salary wise. So I think it’s kinda easy to tell this is a leak from Toronto’s side to try to gain some leverage.


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  8. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The issue at the core though is if that’s what Morey asked for there has to be more coming from Philly because of that Lowry will demand salary wise. So I think it’s kinda easy to tell this is a leak from Toronto’s side to try to gain some leverage.


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    The rumor makes no sense financially, you're right bc if it wasn't Tobi going to TOR as well or at least being shipped to a 3rd team, it would take almost everyone else on the 76ers roster, save one of Maxey, Thyb, or Shake to make the money work.

    Then Philly would be hard capped and only have Embiid, Tobi, Lowry, FVV, OG, #4, #50 and one of the aforementioned young guys. I think filling out those final 6 roster spots with ~$5 million is highly unrealistic.

  9. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    The rumor makes no sense financially, you're right bc if it wasn't Tobi going to TOR as well or at least being shipped to a 3rd team, it would take almost everyone else on the 76ers roster, save one of Maxey, Thyb, or Shake to make the money work.

    Then Philly would be hard capped and only have Embiid, Tobi, Lowry, FVV, OG, #4, #50 and one of the aforementioned young guys. I think filling out those final 6 roster spots with ~$5 million is highly unrealistic.
    Yup. And it's funny how so many "smart" people on NBA Twitter are falling for the report the way Toronto would hope for it by saying there's no way Simmons gets you all of that.

    Well:
    FVV - $19.6mil
    OG - $16mil
    Salary - $35.6mil

    So even for those two alone and not having the salary of the 4th pick factored in eventually. Ben makes $33million. So even that deal, if Philly wants to save the TPE, needs to have a little more salary.

    So this deal definitely doesn't pass the smell test on the surface and there's something 100% missing that was more to this deal.

  10. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Yup. And it's funny how so many "smart" people on NBA Twitter are falling for the report the way Toronto would hope for it by saying there's no way Simmons gets you all of that.

    Well:
    FVV - $19.6mil
    OG - $16mil
    Salary - $35.6mil

    So even for those two alone and not having the salary of the 4th pick factored in eventually. Ben makes $33million. So even that deal, if Philly wants to save the TPE, needs to have a little more salary.

    So this deal definitely doesn't pass the smell test on the surface and there's something 100% missing that was more to this deal.
    Well, Ben's salary can take back a smidge more than $41 million or as little as $26.5 under the 125% + 100k rule but the sentiment is still there.

    Sidebar, TPE's can't be combined with player salary, even though ik that one trade site throws em in lol

  11. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Well, Ben's salary can take back a smidge more than $41 million or as little as $26.5 under the 125% + 100k rule but the sentiment is still there.
    Yea I was going more for the sentiment of trying to keep it as even as possible. But even then that would mean Lowry could only S&T for $5.4mil AAV or year 1 salary to be in that trade without more. And if you take back that 125%+100K that limits them even more at the hard cap. It's still the near impossibility of the trade and people freaking out without any context of the salary is funny to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Sidebar, TPE's can't be combined with player salary, even though ik that one trade site throws em in lol
    Shoulda been clearer, taking Lowry's S&T with the TPE. Basically treating it as Ben for OG, FVV, 4; then adding a 2nd for Lowry S&T.

    Also what this somewhat tells me....Toronto made an absurdly low offer for Ben, and Hinkie countered with something absurd, and Ujiri was more butt hurt by the lopsided ask he leaked it. That's what that ask definitely sounds like.

    I think if Lowry was asked for in a S&T, both sides know that there's interest from Lowry to end up in Philly. I can certainly say that I'm mystified by this hard ball from Toronto on deals involving Lowry to the level I'm at. Even though Lowry would likely like to do Toronto a solid, I can see someone (NYK/NOP) see the talks get stalled and decide to offer something he can't refuse and he walks without Toronto getting anything back.

    Basically, long story short, I can see this deal maybe ending up:
    Lowry S&T, OG, 4
    for
    Ben, Maxey, Hill, 28

    Hill is cuttable salary for Toronto used to make the money work in this deal. If the Sixers wanted to sit on that lineup they certainly can. Or they can do Harris and 4 for an upgrade. Or they can do Curry and 4 for an upgrade. I would for sure shop that Harris+4 around for a switchable 3-4 type guy.

    Really random aside but #4 overall picks when you consider this "Ben or pick 4" ordeal:
    2010 Wesley Johnson TWolves
    2011 Tristan Thompson Cavs
    2012 Dion Waiters Cavs
    2013 Cody Zeller Bbcats/Hornets
    2014 Aaron Gordon Magic
    2015 Kristaps Porzingis Knicks
    2016 Dragan Bender Suns
    2017 Josh Jackson Suns
    2018 Jaren Jackson Jr Grizzlies
    2019 De'Andre Hunter Hawks

    At this point you maybe take JJJ over Ben but JJJ is constantly injured,and no matter how much you believe in your player development system, that outlook does not look great based on historical picks.

    Anyways back to that deal.

    For Toronto that potential starting lineup:
    FVV
    Trent
    Simmons
    Siakam
    Boucher

    Really is just maybe a SG, SF, or C away from being a good starting lineup. Maybe you go out and get a stretch 5 to start over Boucher. I would say go get a 2 that can start over Trent so Trent can come off the bench for you. I list Simmons as the 3, but his ability to play defensively at 5 different positions helps that it doesn't matter where you list him. And Siakam and FVV are great fits as co-stars.

    I can imagine an offense based in this in the half court: FVV initiates a PnR with Simmons as the roll man and Siakam on the strong side corner 3. If the defense drops, FVV has the easy shot. That's true with any roll man. Where it can hit special comes after that. If they jump the screen, FVV and dump it to Ben. Ben has the open lane because they are worried about Siakam shooting then it's an easy 2 (assuming he doesn't pass it up). They crash on Ben, he's got the easy outlet to Siakam for 3. Now is when it gets fun: If they recover to Siakam he can do 4 things: (1) give it right back to Ben; (2) swing it back to FVV; (3) do his spin move and baseline layup/jumper; (4) do his spin move, get another rotation and Ben is wide open in the dunker spot.

    For Philly their lineup can be set after the trade:
    Lowry
    Curry
    OG
    Harris
    Embiid

    We know that Lowry plays defense bigger than he is and has thrived in an undersized backcourt before, so a pairing with Curry can work. OG is a good 3nD player and really 5th option in this offense. I think at this point moving Harris would be the best and using pick 4 to encourage that to happen would be best. I know what my wet dream offer would be, but I doubt it would happen of using Harris, Thybulle, 4, future picks for SGA. But that wouldn't happen. Maybe they take it with Curry and Thybulle with the pick platter. Maybe they can just take the pick platter of 4, 6, 16, future picks for 1. Who knows. But I wouldn't feel pressure to make a move as that starting lineup works well. I'd take Barnes at 4 as he's a better fit with size off the bench than Suggs would be, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking Suggs either.

  12. #747
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    Shoot War, you went in, I was distracted by you saying Hinkie lol, I'll have to dive back into the post when I have a little more time. But from what I skimmed, I agree with the premise.

  13. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Shoot War, you went in, I was distracted by you saying Hinkie lol, I'll have to dive back into the post when I have a little more time. But from what I skimmed, I agree with the premise.
    Didn't even realize I did that. LOL.

    Anywho, this is rather interesting:
    And league executives contacted by B/R continue to mention the possibility of the Sixers holding onto Simmons, should a desirable offer still fail to arise during the draft, in the hopes of Damian Lillard ultimately seeking to leave Portland. Talks between the Raptors and Sixers are considered to be the most advanced of any early conversations Philadelphia has had for the 25-year-old All-Star.

    And to clarify: Sixers brass have indeed maintained contact with Simmons and his representatives, most notably meeting in Chicago during the combine, but not too dissimilar to offseasons past, Philadelphia has thus far been unable to collaborate with its Defensive Player of the Year candidate on a summer player development plan, sources said. The overwhelming expectation around the NBA remains that Philadelphia will trade Simmons before the start of training camp.
    This is from Jake Fisher, who got his start covering the Sixers so he still has plenty of connections. But I italicized the most interesting part. I'm a believer since I've been keyed in on it, that many rumors like this come from a spot of knowledge. Maybe this is they know Dame would list Philly at the top. Maybe it's the fact they know Portland would be interested in Ben. But if they are waiting to hear on what Lillard wants with Ben like that, there's something there between one of those two players and the other team.

  14. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Didn't even realize I did that. LOL.

    Anywho, this is rather interesting:


    This is from Jake Fisher, who got his start covering the Sixers so he still has plenty of connections. But I italicized the most interesting part. I'm a believer since I've been keyed in on it, that many rumors like this come from a spot of knowledge. Maybe this is they know Dame would list Philly at the top. Maybe it's the fact they know Portland would be interested in Ben. But if they are waiting to hear on what Lillard wants with Ben like that, there's something there between one of those two players and the other team.
    Yeah, the next week is going to have some hard and fast deadlines to if Ben will be there next year or not.

    Draft Thursday, Free agency opens Monday and Hill has to be waived or guaranteed August 3rd.

    Obviously all that can pass and Ben still be traded, it's just trading draft rights or signing rookies and waiting 30 days to trade em complicates things. S/T could be minimized if guys agree to sign elsewhere. Then obviously losing the additional asset of Hill's contract being waiveable hurts.

  15. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Yeah, the next week is going to have some hard and fast deadlines to if Ben will be there next year or not.

    Draft Thursday, Free agency opens Monday and Hill has to be waived or guaranteed August 3rd.

    Obviously all that can pass and Ben still be traded, it's just trading draft rights or signing rookies and waiting 30 days to trade em complicates things. S/T could be minimized if guys agree to sign elsewhere. Then obviously losing the additional asset of Hill's contract being waiveable hurts.
    I think Hill+28 gets moved to a tax team or a team looking for space on Thursday night for a guy with guaranteed money.


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