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  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    well that's just it, with Ben going public with his trade demand and Doc mishandling the situation it made Morey's job that much harder to get the value he hopes for.

    Every GM should want to try and win any trade they make, but it proves more difficult when all parties are airing out their dirty laundry and other GM's are thinking well hold on now, that situation over there is messy why should I cave to their demands when we all know if Ben isn't traded, their season will be heavily impacted by distractions and locker room drama. So obviously Morey is more hard pressed now to move Ben than any GM is to attain him.

    This is why I hold Doc more accountable because he use to be a GM and should know better. But to your point Ben and his agent are making it more difficult too. Ben already has a very negative light shinging on him, and any more damage to his rep will only make the offers go lower. No one wants a head case and from the rumours, Ben is a bit of a diva.
    The thing thatís annoying about the Doc point is you say it like no coach has ever called out his player. Docs not the only coach to ever say something like this. The difference is when players get called out they typically have a slightly positive response, not continue to escalate the problem. And adding that he wanted Doc punished, wonít show, and now thinking he doesnít need to do anything to help the Sixers move him shows massive amounts of ego and self absorption. Like, at this point it is starting to turn into teams wonít offer because Benís got red flags more than Morey is asking too much.


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  2. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The thing thatís annoying about the Doc point is you say it like no coach has ever called out his player. Docs not the only coach to ever say something like this. The difference is when players get called out they typically have a slightly positive response, not continue to escalate the problem. And adding that he wanted Doc punished, wonít show, and now thinking he doesnít need to do anything to help the Sixers move him shows massive amounts of ego and self absorption. Like, at this point it is starting to turn into teams wonít offer because Benís got red flags more than Morey is asking too much.


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    Some players are soft/fragile, and some have developed HUGE egos, the two together is death, the sort of thing that is built/reinforced after person of authority after person of authority fails to bring the player back to earth. Terrell Owens, Gilbert Arenas, and Latrell Sprewell are examples of guys who were generally considered nice and coachable who slowly slid out of control. KD blames the Warriors organization for not reprimanding Draymond for "showing him up".

    Ideally coaches would know the players well enough to know how to "handle" them and not talk them down to the press. Coaches have huge egos too. Sometimes it's the player, sometimes it's the coach, quite often it's both.

  3. #1653
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    selling low on Simmons feels preferable to having this drama carry into the regular season. At this point the Sixers should try and go all in on a package around Fred VanVleet or Dejounte Murray imo.

  4. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The thing thatís annoying about the Doc point is you say it like no coach has ever called out his player. Docs not the only coach to ever say something like this. The difference is when players get called out they typically have a slightly positive response, not continue to escalate the problem. And adding that he wanted Doc punished, wonít show, and now thinking he doesnít need to do anything to help the Sixers move him shows massive amounts of ego and self absorption. Like, at this point it is starting to turn into teams wonít offer because Benís got red flags more than Morey is asking too much.


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    I cant argue that, you're right because teams are looking at the player they're attaining not the players old coach. But through the lens of a GM Doc should have known better because he was a gm. If you want the player moved you keep that stuff private and deal with the FO. BUT to your point, maybe Doc didn't want Simmons moved and was just trying to light a fire under him. I consider that as well, because thats reasonable and it make sense.


    I will say, maybe Brown coddled him to much so the first sign of a coach calling him out made him spazz. Which is indicative of his diva nature.

    on a side note, Im not harping on this to create an annoyance. I promise you that, I just think its really something to consider. But the further we dig, the more Ben looks bad. I agree with you there. Hes sorta pointing the finger at everyone but himself.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 09-09-2021 at 04:19 PM.

  5. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    selling low on Simmons feels preferable to having this drama carry into the regular season. At this point the Sixers should try and go all in on a package around Fred VanVleet or Dejounte Murray imo.
    agree.

    I think the Raptors still have an offer on the table centered around OG or FVV but the 6ers likely want both and thats a deal breaker. We also have offered Siakam I believe and when they couldnt come to terms Masai told everyone that Siakam is not being traded in a press conference. Only he said the same thing to Demar before he got traded, so I think that was a smoke screen.

    Toronto needs a pg, and are going with tall athletic players. Its one team I can see rolling the dice on him. But I think every offer we put out was declined so were likely waiting for Morey to soften his stance to re enter negotiations.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 09-09-2021 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    agree.

    I think the Raptors still have an offer on the table centered around OG or FVV but the 6ers likely want both and thats a deal breaker. We also have offered Siakam I believe and when they couldnt come to terms Masai told everyone that Siakam is not being traded in a press conference. Only he said the same thing to Demar before he got traded, so I think that was a smoke screen.

    Toronto needs a pg, and are going with tall athletic players. Its one team I can see rolling the dice on him. But I think every offer we put out was declined so were likely waiting for Morey to soften his stance to re enter negotiations.
    yeah, it feels like getting both OG and FVV is off the table, although that'd be incredibly ideal for Philly, and would be worth throwing Maxey in as well. Dragic + FVV + pick for Simmons alone might need to be the compromise. Simmons/OG/Barnes/Siakam is some serious size and length and has the makings of a top defense.

  7. #1657
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Then Benís a ***** to be this butt hurt over one comment in 5 years.


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    Edit:
    Also the question wasnít ďCan you win with Ben Simmons?Ē It was asked ďCan you win with Ben Simmons as a point guard?Ē To me thatís a very very clear difference.
    But when do coaches say that? Thats the whole point. I get it's an emotional moment, but you gotta have your guy's back. Doc didn't have his back.

    If your significant other came up to you and said if that person asked to sleep with you right now, would you say yes and you genuinely said "I don't know" do you not think they would be pissed?

    And it's more than just Doc, it's your teammate saying you passing up a shot lost the series. And it's the org publicly shopping you. I get you're a sixers fan. I'd be siding with my favorite org too. I spent half the NFL offseason saying Rodgers is soft because of all the stuff that came out. Now he's back on my team and I'm all in on him again. I get all that, but as an outsider looking in, the sixers tried to **** a hotter chick this offseason and blamed Simmons for their breakup and when it didn't work, they wanted to get back together. I get why he basically said I'm done with you.

  8. #1658
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  9. #1659
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    yeah, it feels like getting both OG and FVV is off the table, although that'd be incredibly ideal for Philly, and would be worth throwing Maxey in as well. Dragic + FVV + pick for Simmons alone might need to be the compromise. Simmons/OG/Barnes/Siakam is some serious size and length and has the makings of a top defense.
    Iím starting to think Toronto is out because Barnes and Ben would be overlap, and if Siakams shooting continues to slump that lineup has little passing.


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  10. #1660
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Iím starting to think Toronto is out because Barnes and Ben would be overlap, and if Siakams shooting continues to slump that lineup has little passing.


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    Depends. We dont really know what Barnes will be. He looked very raw in summer league. It all depends on how we develop him.

    Simmons would sorta be the perfect back court pairing with FVV, their skillsets would compliment eachother so well. So I wonder if a package like OG, Flynn, Dragic, Future first could work.

  11. #1661
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I cant argue that, you're right because teams are looking at the player they're attaining not the players old coach. But through the lens of a GM Doc should have known better because he was a gm. If you want the player moved you keep that stuff private and deal with the FO. BUT to your point, maybe Doc didn't want Simmons moved and was just trying to light a fire under him. I consider that as well, because thats reasonable and it make sense.


    I will say, maybe Brown coddled him to much so the first sign of a coach calling him out made him spazz. Which is indicative of his diva nature.

    on a side note, Im not harping on this to create an annoyance. I promise you that, I just think its really something to consider. But the further we dig, the more Ben looks bad. I agree with you there. Hes sorta pointing the finger at everyone but himself.
    I don't think they wanted to move him. Like, aside from the Harden talks, up until that point the Sixers have long rebuffed any talks that involved Simmons. They held onto him and supported him. The reports right after the season were that Morey, Brand, Doc, and Ben were on the same page as to what needed to happen. Ben was willing to work with the plan the Sixers put forward. Heck, Embiid was trying to reach out to help him. Harris was trying to reach out to help him.

    I think when offers first started coming, the asking price was high because they had no intent on moving him because the front office thought that they were on the same page. Yet teams offered stuff.

    Then Ben cut off communication. Sixers still don't change the asking price.
    Then reports are Ben wants out. Sixers still don't change the asking price.
    Ben wont report for camp or to play. Sixers still don't change the asking price.

    So what keeps evolving from Ben's side? Like despite the one time saying something negative, this team seemed to stand by him in every other instance and kept on trying to support him. Hell in the Brett Brown years they hired a specific shooting coach that Simmons liked and he still ditched it to work with his brother. The team offered to help out and he spurned them. They rebuffed trade offers and he stopped talking to them. He asks for a trade, they start to have conversations, and he says he refuses to show up.

    Like I said, right now if I were another team looking to acquire him I would be not wanting to touch him. He seems to be the one escalating the situation at every turn for a franchise willing to help you. He's basically has said through the "I have no responsibility in raising my stock" that he doesn't need to improve. Think about that from another teams perspective; he basically said he's not going to shoot.

    At this point send him home and keep taking his money and let him cry.

  12. #1662
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Depends. We dont really know what Barnes will be. He looked very raw in summer league. It all depends on how we develop him.

    Simmons would sorta be the perfect back court pairing with FVV, their skillsets would compliment eachother so well. So I wonder if a package like OG, Flynn, Dragic, Future first could work.
    I think Morey would rather have OG and FVV for Simmons and Thybulle at that rate.

  13. #1663
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I don't think they wanted to move him. Like, aside from the Harden talks, up until that point the Sixers have long rebuffed any talks that involved Simmons. They held onto him and supported him. The reports right after the season were that Morey, Brand, Doc, and Ben were on the same page as to what needed to happen. Ben was willing to work with the plan the Sixers put forward. Heck, Embiid was trying to reach out to help him. Harris was trying to reach out to help him.

    I think when offers first started coming, the asking price was high because they had no intent on moving him because the front office thought that they were on the same page. Yet teams offered stuff.

    Then Ben cut off communication. Sixers still don't change the asking price.
    Then reports are Ben wants out. Sixers still don't change the asking price.
    Ben wont report for camp or to play. Sixers still don't change the asking price.

    So what keeps evolving from Ben's side? Like despite the one time saying something negative, this team seemed to stand by him in every other instance and kept on trying to support him. Hell in the Brett Brown years they hired a specific shooting coach that Simmons liked and he still ditched it to work with his brother. The team offered to help out and he spurned them. They rebuffed trade offers and he stopped talking to them. He asks for a trade, they start to have conversations, and he says he refuses to show up.

    Like I said, right now if I were another team looking to acquire him I would be not wanting to touch him. He seems to be the one escalating the situation at every turn for a franchise willing to help you. He's basically has said through the "I have no responsibility in raising my stock" that he doesn't need to improve. Think about that from another teams perspective; he basically said he's not going to shoot.

    At this point send him home and keep taking his money and let him cry.
    the only reason a team would trade for him at this point is they still believe in his potential and ability to improve. he looks like a real diva right now and that should be a turn off. But thereís always teams that think they can right the ship.

    I donít mean to beat a dead horse but my point about Doc was that he didnít help Morey at all in this situation. But weíve established that his intent simply could have been to light a fire under Ben. Ben and his agent have been counter productive to their own cause if they in fact wanted to push their way out.

  14. #1664
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I think Morey would rather have OG and FVV for Simmons and Thybulle at that rate.
    Howís Thybulleís shooting? It seems he and Simmons overlap a bit in terms of skills set. Both really good defenders, neither are great shooters. I would assume if you guys move Ben that you would keep Thybulle as your best perimeter defender, no?

  15. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Howís Thybulleís shooting? It seems he and Simmons overlap a bit in terms of skills set. Both really good defenders, neither are great shooters. I would assume if you guys move Ben that you would keep Thybulle as your best perimeter defender, no?
    Thybulle is willing and good enough. If you believe in your program then heís a good fit. Heís also excellent in off ball movement.


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