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  1. #2446
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    No one person talks for the entire fanbase so I don’t see that as relevant to what I’m asking.


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    you provided a quote. I responded to your quote. Other Philly posters took my response out of context, made it as if I was blaming your team.. then you step in to further defend your team. So I provided all the quotes to show, that I never blamed your team. However other Philly posters are asking over and and over what did Philly do wrong, and then some examples were provided because they asked. Yet Im not the one who provided the examples, so you dont need to defend your team to me lol

    All Im doing is clarifying. If you want my opinion I believe both sides have fault for how everything was handled.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-12-2021 at 12:05 PM.

  2. #2447
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Save the season? I’m sure a healthy Joel can lose in the 2nd round without him. The Sixers don’t hinge on Simmons


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    Ben is a very good regular season player though. Its the playoffs where the wheels fell off.

  3. #2448
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Can I ask this?

    We’re the Sixers wrong in having Simmons on the table for Harden? Because that’s what’s being alluded to when people say he had a right to be mad.

    We’re the Sixers wrong in shopping Ben after he asked for a trade? Because Rich Paul asked for a trade during the combine (July 21-27) right after the loss (July 20) with the first rumors popping up late July (July 26th).

    Yet this is one of the biggest things being used when the topic of the Sixers “wronging” Simmons.


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    It doesnt work if you are asking the wrong questions.

  4. #2449
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Ben is a very good regular season player though. Its the playoffs where the wheels fell off.
    So?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #2450
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    So?


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    I understand that you're being coy. You're basically saying that Philly can do bad all by them selves and dont need Ben. I get it.

    But I look at it differently. Ben is the 2nd or 3rd best player on that team. He helped a lot during the season last year and was one of the main reasons Philly was atop of the conference.

    He is also on a max salary. You cant convince me that its in the teams best interest for Ben to simply not play. Because it isn't. He takes up a good chunk of their salary space. Its not like if he stays home and forfeits that money, that Philly can use the cap space else where to improve the team. Also if this drama continues in to the season, it will most def have an impact on their season. Hense me saying that its in both their best interest to come to a resolution. Why would Philly want this problem hanging over their heads all season?

  6. #2451
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I understand that you're being coy. You're basically saying that Philly can do bad all by them selves and dont need Ben. I get it.

    But I look at it differently. Ben is the 2nd or 3rd best player on that team. He helped a lot during the season last year and was one of the main reasons Philly was atop of the conference.

    He is also on a max salary. You cant convince me that its in the teams best interest for Ben to simply not play. Because it isn't. He takes up a good chunk of their salary space. Its not like if he stays home and forfeits that money, that Philly can use the cap space else where to improve the team. Also if this drama continues in to the season, it will most def have an impact on their season. Hense me saying that its in both their best interest to come to a resolution. Why would Philly want this problem hanging over their heads all season?
    No. Making the playoffs and advancing is doing good. The Sixers can be good w/o Ben Simmons. Their season does not hinge on him. It hinges on Joel and to a lesser extent Tobias. Simmons is back so I guess they will have to try and make it work. He going to be a distraction and at this point, I do not think they are better off for him being with the team. Even before all this, the team had a similar ceiling both with and without Ben Simmons IMO. He'd make them win a couple more regular-season games but they would lose before the final unless Joel averaged a clutch 40 a night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #2452
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    you provided a quote. I responded to your quote. Other Philly posters took my response out of context, made it as if I was blaming your team.. then you step in to further defend your team. So I provided all the quotes to show, that I never blamed your team. However other Philly posters are asking over and and over what did Philly do wrong, and then some examples were provided because they asked. Yet Im not the one who provided the examples, so you dont need to defend your team to me lol

    All Im doing is clarifying. If you want my opinion I believe both sides have fault for how everything was handled.
    I'm not defending my team. I'm correcting misinformaiton.

    Should Ben be upset he was shopped for Harden?

    Should Ben be shopped after he asked out?

    To me the answer is no to both. So then the retort is "Philly did wrong by shopping Ben" is kinda a fallacy in itself.

    Where I think the Sixers are in the wrong?

    Allowing Ben to be part of a conversation of a trade so publicly that was likely not to happen. I think where they wrong with all summer conversation was the mixed messaging of "we want him back" but also "hey we're open to moving him".

    Morey is clearly a GM unafraid to speak his mind and tampering is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. He should have come out after the Harden talks and said Houston ownership tanked talks. All summer, instead of retorting with an outrageous counter offer, he should have just hung up.

    I don't have a problem with Doc and Embiid's comments, because what gets cut off all the time is the rest of Doc's quote where he said he didn't have time to really assess or think about what happens. What gets cut off is Embiid putting it on himself after saying Ben made a great defensive play after that then he (Embiid) made a terrible turnover. Could they have done a better job in backtracking some of that in the following days media exit interview availability? Absolutely. But those full quotes aren't as fun for the media to play with.

    The reason I have a bigger issue with what Ben is doing is he's not saying way he wants traded. He just flat out refused team help for 5 years when it comes to his biggest flaw. He told teammates to not bother to come talk to him, even if they just were to clear the air. He showed up without telling anyone he was going to be reporting. Like I don't care if he goes scorched earth in throwing everyone under the bus. Hell even with AD and Harden they quoted their teams at the time moving guys they thought made them better, not putting a winning team around them.

  8. #2453
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    No. Making the playoffs and advancing is doing good. The Sixers can be good w/o Ben Simmons. Their season does not hinge on him. It hinges on Joel and to a lesser extent Tobias. Simmons is back so I guess they will have to try and make it work. He going to be a distraction and at this point, I do not think they are better off for him being with the team. Even before all this, the team had a similar ceiling both with and without Ben Simmons IMO. He'd make them win a couple more regular-season games but they would lose before the final unless Joel averaged a clutch 40 a night.
    He was runner up for Dpoy last year. Give credit where its due, he was a huge part of their season. Im guessing you didn't watch the 6ers until the post season, because if you had, you would know Ben had a strong season last year. I don't know how you dispute that.

    Also this problem doesn't go away simply by not playing Simmons. Like I said he takes up a good chunk of their salary, and having a max player take up that much money and not play for you is going to be a problem until you find a way to move him.

    He is under contract for 4 years. There's two resolutions here. 1 is you trade him. 2 if you cant trade him, you try to resolve the issue and have him rejoin the team. Having him sit at home making between $33-$40 mill over the next 4 years is not a solution. Even if he is forced to forfeit a chunk of that money, it wouldn't open any cap space for the 6ers.

  9. #2454
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Can I ask this?

    We’re the Sixers wrong in having Simmons on the table for Harden? Because that’s what’s being alluded to when people say he had a right to be mad.

    We’re the Sixers wrong in shopping Ben after he asked for a trade? Because Rich Paul asked for a trade during the combine (July 21-27) right after the loss (July 20) with the first rumors popping up late July (July 26th).

    Yet this is one of the biggest things being used when the topic of the Sixers “wronging” Simmons.


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    Someone once told me you're free to make your own choices, but you're not free to choose the consequences. Was it wrong to shop Simmons for Harden? No, but they have to live with the consequences of it not working. They pissed off probably the 2nd most important player on their team.

    And we have no clue what all happens behind the scenes. But if Simmons feels this way, it's hard to imagine there was a lot of fixing of the relationship behind the scenes either.

    And you can say the post game comments and stuff are being blown out of proportion. But if the relationship is already rocky, making post playoff game comments that at best can be made out as indifferent to the player and at worst can be made out as potentially not wanting him on your team. And your star player not doing anything to help seemingly either isn't a good look.

    Managing relationships is every bit as big of part of nba coaching and GM'ing as any skill. Aaron Rodgers and Ben Simmons are very different levels of talent, but look at situation. The Packers drafted his replacement with consulting him and let guys walk in FA or be cut without consulting him. None of those moves are inherently wrong, but Rodgers clearly felt slighted. When they drafted Love, Rodgers was comimg off two seasons where he was well below his usual level of play. And aoat every player Rodgers mentioned that left without his input was actually the correct call from an on the field standpoint. Those guys were all basically washed and got paid more than they were worth.

  10. #2455
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    He was runner up for Dpoy last year. Give credit where its due, he was a huge part of their season. Im guessing you didn't watch the 6ers until the post season, because if you had, you would know Ben had a strong season last year. I don't know how you dispute that.

    Also this problem doesn't go away simply by not playing Simmons. Like I said he takes up a good chunk of their salary, and having a max player take up that much money and not play for you is going to be a problem until you find a way to move him.

    He is under contract for 4 years. There's two resolutions here. 1 is you trade him. 2 if you cant trade him, you try to resolve the issue and have him rejoin the team. Having him sit at home making between $33-$40 mill over the next 4 years is not a solution. Even if he is forced to forfeit a chunk of that money, it wouldn't open any cap space for the 6ers.
    Exactly. The sentiment here that Simmons is some overpaid, useless player is mind boggling. Yes, he gets a name boost from being the first pick and super hyped since HS, but he was DPOY runner up, he's a 3 time all star, 2 time all defensive player and has made an all nba team. Simmons is a very good player. He has flaws, one glaring one in particular. But if the 76ers want to even advance to the 2nd round or further in the playoffs, they need Simmons or the player haul from Simmons.

    Embiid is 27 years old and actually will turn 28 during the season. He's had a history of knee and feet injuries. If I'm not mistaken, hes had some back stuff too. Those are scary injuries for the lo g term outlook of anyone, but particularly guys as big as embiid. Dude is a legit MVP caliber player right now. Wasting that prime to get into a dick measuring contest with Simmons is so dumb.

  11. #2456
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I'm not defending my team. I'm correcting misinformation.

    Should Ben be upset he was shopped for Harden?

    Should Ben be shopped after he asked out?

    To me the answer is no to both. So then the retort is "Philly did wrong by shopping Ben" is kinda a fallacy in itself.

    Where I think the Sixers are in the wrong?

    Allowing Ben to be part of a conversation of a trade so publicly that was likely not to happen. I think where they wrong with all summer conversation was the mixed messaging of "we want him back" but also "hey we're open to moving him".

    Morey is clearly a GM unafraid to speak his mind and tampering is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. He should have come out after the Harden talks and said Houston ownership tanked talks. All summer, instead of retorting with an outrageous counter offer, he should have just hung up.

    I don't have a problem with Doc and Embiid's comments, because what gets cut off all the time is the rest of Doc's quote where he said he didn't have time to really assess or think about what happens. What gets cut off is Embiid putting it on himself after saying Ben made a great defensive play after that then he (Embiid) made a terrible turnover. Could they have done a better job in backtracking some of that in the following days media exit interview availability? Absolutely. But those full quotes aren't as fun for the media to play with.

    The reason I have a bigger issue with what Ben is doing is he's not saying way he wants traded. He just flat out refused team help for 5 years when it comes to his biggest flaw. He told teammates to not bother to come talk to him, even if they just were to clear the air. He showed up without telling anyone he was going to be reporting. Like I don't care if he goes scorched earth in throwing everyone under the bus. Hell even with AD and Harden they quoted their teams at the time moving guys they thought made them better, not putting a winning team around them.
    I agree that Ben has been a snot. But thats player empowerment for you, these guys know they have teams by the balls. Do I like it? not at all, but is it a reality ? yes it is.

    Part of the problem here is the revolving door. Simmons was selected by a GM who has been replaced thrice since then. There is something to be said about culture, vision, consistency, continuity. I know for sure Colangelo had a completely different vision than Hinkie. One guy was methodical and patient, BC is the opposite of patient and makes trades on a whim. BC took the team in his own direction when he took over, only he caused a mess with his burner accounts, and was fired. Then the new guy comes in, and I would argue that he was one of the worst GMs in the league, making head scratcher moves like maxing out a well passed his prime Horford when you're already deep in the front court. I do think things like this play a factor. And then how was each FO aproaching Simmons, probably in different ways I would imagine? maybe some of the coddling came during those tenures?

    I don't blame any of this on Morey, these are problems he inherited. But as a franchise, could the 6ers have done some things differently? Hiring a competent GM after Hinkie and before Morey would have helped. I think BC and Brand were useless.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-12-2021 at 01:21 PM.

  12. #2457
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Was it wrong to shop Simmons for Harden? No,
    So living with the consequences is reasonable to expect the guy not to show up?

  13. #2458
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Exactly. The sentiment here that Simmons is some overpaid, useless player is mind boggling. Yes, he gets a name boost from being the first pick and super hyped since HS, but he was DPOY runner up, he's a 3 time all star, 2 time all defensive player and has made an all nba team. Simmons is a very good player. He has flaws, one glaring one in particular. But if the 76ers want to even advance to the 2nd round or further in the playoffs, they need Simmons or the player haul from Simmons.

    Embiid is 27 years old and actually will turn 28 during the season. He's had a history of knee and feet injuries. If I'm not mistaken, hes had some back stuff too. Those are scary injuries for the lo g term outlook of anyone, but particularly guys as big as embiid. Dude is a legit MVP caliber player right now. Wasting that prime to get into a dick measuring contest with Simmons is so dumb.
    Yeah Im un biased, and I like to be fair. Simmons has a broken shot but does bring a lot of other good things to the table. DPOY is one of the most important awards imo, because defensive players have a lot of impact on winning. To suggest that he's a bum and the 6ers are better off with out him, while he takes up a significant amount of their cap space is kind of crazy if you ask me.

    I did say a while ago, that the 6ers probably should have looked in to moving Ben sooner.
    1 his value would have been higher.
    2 There is a concern that Embiid could have a short prime.
    3 if you knew Simmons and Embiid werent going to work great together, maybe it would have been better to try and keep Jimmy Butler at the time, and try to part with Ben.

    But again this could be due to having so many different GMs during Simmons career so far. Each guy had a different plan and now its Morey's mess to clean up which I've always said is going to prove to be difficult because:
    a) Simmons is doing nothing to help his own value right now,
    b) Philly did go public with some stuff that resulted them losing leverage in negotiations. When other GMs know you are desperate to move a certain player, they aren't going to submit to your asking price
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 10-12-2021 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #2459
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    Trade destinations for Ben Simmons

    I don’t think the Sixers should try to amend anything because they didn’t do anything wrong.

    They weren’t actively shopping Ben, they were allowing offers that included him. That’s different. Harden was being actively shopped, Ben wasn’t as evidence by them not trading him.

    He was being actively shopped now but that was per Ben and co request.

    Sixers are unfortunately stuck doing damage control they didn’t cause. They shouldn’t have to do it was my point.

    EDIT: I also have said that I don’t think Simmons has wanted to be here since he was drafted. So a lot of the vitriol is based off that the Sixers could have let Ben do anything he want in the entire organization yet he still would’ve wanted out. I think this was just an easy way for him to scapegoat himself out.
    Last edited by koldjerky; 10-12-2021 at 01:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  15. #2460
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    i can only blame the sixers and their fans for 1 thing in all of this and that is coddling this man child like everyone else in his life has. Trying to trade him for a top 3 player in the sport or calling him out to get better should never be a negative thing.
    Yeah, the coddling certainly didn't work out well. No question Ben is soft and that can only be put on the Sixers since that was part of the pre-draft scouting report, so the Sixers could potentially have had a better plan for him, but in today's NBA the players have all the power.

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