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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay View Post
    Because straight kids arenít killing them selves over being straight (Not saying there arenít other reasons), and too many gay kids are.

    Until itís not a big deal for most at different ages, this is good for many people. A lot of us may not be in that group and donít see the necessity, it if you donít see itís a necessity, then youíre not one of the people this announcement is supposed to help.

    Iím just saying, itís small-minded to think this announcement is completely unnecessary for EVERYONE, even if it may be unnecessary for many or even most.
    I'm willing to bet the average fan doesn't know who he may be, let alone some gay kid. There have been many more famous people that have come out. I can't see his statement becoming a world changing event. He needs to keep his personal life off the field. If he wants to make a difference, then speak out and set up a charity for those who need help. I know he's contributed to the cause. Kudos, but let's see if any other players come forward to contribute.
    Last edited by dbacknick; 06-23-2021 at 04:11 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubiconraider View Post
    Really, Gay kids are killing themselves because they are gay? Show me the research, any links??

    I would like to see that. I majored in Biology and Psychology (at Loyola U.) I never saw anything like that before.

    Please send me the links.
    I am happy for your life accomplishments and am sorry if my comments were misconstrued.

    https://www.thetrevorproject.org/res...about-suicide/

    Im sure itís not the fact that they are gay as much as the lack of feeling accepted, excessive bullying, etc,

    I apologize also for my ignorance if these statistics are incorrect.

  3. #63
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    Anyway, Iím out of the discussion, my only point was that I feel pretty confident saying that more than 0 people in the world will be positively affected by this, so Iím all for it.

    That was all.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay View Post
    I am happy for your life accomplishments and am sorry if my comments were misconstrued.

    https://www.thetrevorproject.org/res...about-suicide/

    Im sure itís not the fact that they are gay as much as the lack of feeling accepted, excessive bullying, etc,

    I apologize also for my ignorance if these statistics are incorrect.
    I kinda knew you were going that way. There is NO evidence that (for example) Transgenders have a 40% suicide attempt rate, because the American people are ,mean, unaccepting, bigoted... That is just not true.

    You have to PROVE that there is a relationship between suicide and society indifference. Suicide rate among Teen High school kids is very incomplete and inconclusive. You are also unable to measure the kids that are "in the closet" that don't attempt suicide(in those very same studies).

    The Trevor Project--- a bit misleading huh? Why? why would they slant the news like that? What would be their motive?

    Straight kid commits suicide --- he had a psychosis.

    Gay kid commits suicide --- he was bullied, unaccepted...

    How would that viewpoint benefit the LGBT community?

    LJ you can't go from A---->B--->C--->H

    We all hate bullies, life is not fair.I think there is more to those stats that are not being exposed. JMHO

  5. #65
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    Are you willing to say that not a single person commits suicide because they are bullied/not accepted based on being gay?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    Are you willing to say that not a single person commits suicide because they are bullied/not accepted based on being gay?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Of course not Kobe.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubiconraider View Post
    I kinda knew you were going that way. There is NO evidence that (for example) Transgenders have a 40% suicide attempt rate, because the American people are ,mean, unaccepting, bigoted... That is just not true.

    You have to PROVE that there is a relationship between suicide and society indifference. Suicide rate among Teen High school kids is very incomplete and inconclusive. You are also unable to measure the kids that are "in the closet" that don't attempt suicide(in those very same studies).

    The Trevor Project--- a bit misleading huh? Why? why would they slant the news like that? What would be their motive?

    Straight kid commits suicide --- he had a psychosis.

    Gay kid commits suicide --- he was bullied, unaccepted...

    How would that viewpoint benefit the LGBT community?

    LJ you can't go from A---->B--->C--->H

    We all hate bullies, life is not fair.I think there is more to those stats that are not being exposed. JMHO
    On the other hand, if youíre so sure itís all wrong, then would it be out of line to request that you provide the ďrealĒ statistics?

    Putting all the ownership on one side to prove their argument while the other side just yells ďfake news!Ē (Sorry for the obvious political connotation there) hardly seems the correct way to win a debate.

    Iím solidly in the corner of nobody committing suicide by the way, so turning the argument to whether the specific numbers are incorrect really doesnít change my argument.

    If 5 Vegas or Bay Area Raiders teens that happen to be gay feel better today because someone is like them in professional football then itís a positive.

    JMHO.

    I find it amusing that so many people say they donít care what others think (and I did try, I said I was done and meant it at the time lol), yet here I am posting again.

    The funny part is that Iím not a huge advocate or anything, I was just playing devils advocate (as it were) to someone who said that this wouldnít matter to anyone, anywhere (I donít remember the exact words, and that couldíve been just my interpretation of it). Thatís all I was disagreeing with, that this almost certainly is a big deal to someone, somewhere. Probably lots of people, but providing stats and metrics for that would be above my pay grade (or interest level &#128521

  8. #68
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    And I know this will make me sound like a jerk, which I promise is not my intent, but a quick google search (for statistics, not typing in the argument I want to make) shows multiple studies with higher suicide rates for gay teens, but is it worth posting?

    ďFake newsĒ is a pretty tough argument to win against.

    All studies that gather information by questioning people will be imperfect in one way or another, so does that make every such study invalid?

  9. #69
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    I don't really care about anyone's personal life. But the mere fact that you have a not-insignificant number of people who say they don't care, yet would prefer he kept it in the shadows, sort of exemplifies why it will probably mean something to some folks out there that he came out publicly.

    I mean, do people have the same reaction when a player announces on twitter that he just proposed to his gf? "Just keep your heterosexuality to yourself!" Nope. Don't see why this should be any different.

  10. #70
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    Just speaking for myself, I watch football as an escape from everything else. If I cannot get my football sans all of the political and social BS, well maybe I should focus my attention on something else...
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay View Post
    On the other hand, if youíre so sure itís all wrong, then would it be out of line to request that you provide the ďrealĒ statistics?

    Putting all the ownership on one side to prove their argument while the other side just yells ďfake news!Ē (Sorry for the obvious political connotation there) hardly seems the correct way to win a debate.

    Iím solidly in the corner of nobody committing suicide by the way, so turning the argument to whether the specific numbers are incorrect really doesnít change my argument.

    If 5 Vegas or Bay Area Raiders teens that happen to be gay feel better today because someone is like them in professional football then itís a positive.

    JMHO.

    I find it amusing that so many people say they donít care what others think (and I did try, I said I was done and meant it at the time lol), yet here I am posting again.

    The funny part is that Iím not a huge advocate or anything, I was just playing devils advocate (as it were) to someone who said that this wouldnít matter to anyone, anywhere (I donít remember the exact words, and that couldíve been just my interpretation of it). Thatís all I was disagreeing with, that this almost certainly is a big deal to someone, somewhere. Probably lots of people, but providing stats and metrics for that would be above my pay grade (or interest level &#128521
    Well said.

    The media coverage, the responses from around the league and every corner of the country, the increases in both jersey sales and the number of followers to Nassib's social media accounts pretty much speak to the fact that this was a big deal to many people of all persuasions. Heck, I even saw a post from the great Bo Jackson conveying respect and big ups to Nassib. As just about everyone including Nassib himself have said, maybe one day soon such announcements won't be needed ever again. Consider this a step in the right direction.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    Just speaking for myself, I watch football as an escape from everything else. If I cannot get my football sans all of the political and social BS, well maybe I should focus my attention on something else...
    Was there ever really a time when the NFL wasn't involved in some cause or another, whether it be social, political or whatever? I realize some of it may be subtle, while other times we all tune in with our blinders on, but it's there, if you really want to see it.

  13. #73
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    There are obviously suicides based on bullying or fears, not just for being gay, but a variety of reasons. Trying to stop the suicides among gay population does not discount the other suicides. So Iím not sure why thatís even brought up. And there are many feel good stories of celebrities and athletes trying to relate to troubled kids. Even stories like jacobs and his struggles growing up will hopefully help kids feel better about themselves.

  14. #74
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    I used to evaluate Stats every summer , when I was in college(for my Psych major, it sucked!!!). Suicide stats were a yearly routine. And what I remember most is , defining causality was next to impossible, not just for the gay population, but for almost all sub class populations. That is why I was asking for the links. I don't see anything new there.

    Please read my posts closely, I was not trying to be callous , or say there are not issues here.

    But, I do think it is emotionally easier to digest if we just blame society, for those deaths.

    How many gay people in those studies were "in the closet". --- 0 . If those people are not included in the study, the study is inconclusive. That is how research works.

    I don't think gay people are quite as vulnerable to bullying as the research suggests. Based on my experience , I find gay people to be strong and dynamic(That is just me).

    Mental Health ultimately is what truly needs to be addressed in this world. That is really hard to do, because there is always somebody turning this into a Political conversation. Pretty lame huh?

    Mean while, nothing gets done.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiderLakersA's View Post
    Was there ever really a time when the NFL wasn't involved in some cause or another, whether it be social, political or whatever? I realize some of it may be subtle, while other times we all tune in with our blinders on, but it's there, if you really want to see it.
    I think it would be fair to say that some of these things have been going on for a long time. Not sure how old you are but I probably have a few years on you. I remember a time when the game was front and center, when I didn't have to wade through a bunch of social or racial issues. I was watching some of my dvds over the weekend of the "Glory Days" of the Raiders, it's kind of the way that I get ready for the season. I just had a stark come to Jesus moment when I looked at the whole of the situation and I realized things will probably never be the same for me again. I'm not going to lay any blame on anyone or anything but things are surely different and not in a way that I want to deal with any longer.

    It's an issue of eras for me, it's one of the disadvantages if you will about having experienced things in a different time. Sure there were personal problems with the players, but there wasn't a readily available media to broadcast it incessantly. The Raiders were fortunate to have Al Davis to look past those things within the walls of his organization and make those things a nonissue, at least as far as the Raiders were concerned and allow the game to be the focal point. I miss that and if that makes me an insensitive evil person to want to continue those times then so be it.

    I think that if your fandom starts in the late nineties or the change of the millennium, then I expect that you probably wouldn't see things the same as I do. That's not a good or bad thing, it's just the perspective that one has based on what your personal experience is.

    I have for the most part enjoyed the interactions with my fellow fans on this forum, on some level I will miss that, but the time has come for me to take a little self imposed sabbatical from football and reevaluate just where it is that I fit in all of this. Ladies and gentlemen, I bid you a farewell....
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

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