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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    I agree, and that's why I started this thread. Biden doesn't push the party far enough, therefore he should step aside in 2024. He did a good job on COVID and restoring order to our country, but he even admitted in the primaries that he's just the bridge to the future. He should prove that by not running again. We need change in the democratic party, we tried to go back to business as usual and he'll end up passing nothing when his party controls both chambers of Congress. We have to change Washington, and Biden just isn't that President.
    The main reason, to me and I can be wrong, that slavery lasted so long isn't about racism, which came later to justify the system, but the money interest that wishes to maintain it for their own well-being. They were willing to spend their citizens' lives and states' resources to keep their slaveowner status. What is really jaw-dropping is that they got poor whites, whose wages suffer from having to compete against slave labor for jobs, to fight for a slave system that kept them in poverty.

    I see that happening now with their support for a broken political system that benefits only the uber-rich at the expense of everybody else. There is just too much power, influence, and greed to fight to fix this system. Change can only come from blood in the street, and the American public isn't there yet. If they get there it might be too late.

    I agree with your sentiment, past, and present, but it takes the will of the people to change anything. If it isn't there, it won't be done. That is why I am constantly putting pressure/attack on Biden, and support the progressive efforts to do the same. You got to maintain the heat on these clowns if you want to see progress, but it isn't there from the moderate side of the aisles.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Man I hope this is the case. She'll fumble. Mods don't like her, progs don't like her and independents don't like her.
    I agree that she is a disaster of a candidate waiting to happen.

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I think I went 2-3 months without Spock scolding me for my Biden criticism! And as I did say yesterday in this thread, I mostly agree with this. I do think Biden had a good start to his Presidency. Trump stepped in and tried to undo just about everything and anything Obama did. Biden has reversed some of those key things. There are a few things that he has the authority to do on his own that I hope he does (see: student debt), but yeah...I wasn't terribly annoyed early on.

    The proof will be in the pudding and I'm certainly not hoping I'm right. But at the same time I'm not a Trump supporter. My politics aren't about just reacting and crying about the dumbest things to stoke the culture war. I care mostly about a few very obvious and real problems. Like health care, climate change, criminal justice reform, American imperialism, and so on. For many of those I see a lot of tremendous activists and advocates and a plethora of bold and exciting solutions. Things that could lift so many people up and end so much evil. I recognize change like that is hard, but I'd still rather have someone who is an undying advocate for these issues than a career politician who ends up on the right side of things way later than he should. This sense of distrust isn't going anywhere.

    But Crovash, your point is right: it doesn't matter what Biden has said or done in the past. It just matters what he does. I don't know if I'm tired of it or have just already completely lowered my expectations, but I'm feeling OK with "it matters what he does" carrying a lot of my hope. There are a lot of people who do passionately care about enacting bold policy. I hope they win out...and people like Larry Summers keel over!

    My pessimism rarely takes a back seat but I'm at least a little numb to it right now. Not for long, I'm sure. But although I do agree with Wes' underlying points and concerns, I'm fine letting him play Bad Cop for a little
    I was a good little democrat for a long time, it didn't work. So, hell yes I will try something new and bad cop might fit the ticket
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  4. #289
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    This seems relevant given the discussion:

    https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/...ors-no-labels/

    Joe Manchin's audio with a bunch of billionaire donors was leaked and in it he appears to be trying very hard to keep the filibuster from being repealed.

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    that assumes the Democratic party WANTS to be pushed further than it's currently being pushed...just because progressives want the party further left doesn't mean that's what the party itself wants to do......going further left alienates just as many people as going too far right

    it won't matter- IMO it will be obvious by 2024 that he doesn't want to or it's simply illogical for him to run again...and Harris was selected to take the handoff
    If the democrat is successful in making the changes that people can feel, I don't think they have to worry about alienation. But you are right, I don't think the DNC wants to be pushed farther left. There isn't enough money to do so. Pelosi would definitely lose her fundraising crown. Harris has less national political weight than Pence. She is a wave rider, as in she will champion anything that is popular with voters to get elected, then a leader. watching her flip-flopping on M4A was very telling during the primaries. She couldn't even win her home state. So she brings nothing to the ticket but her ethnicity.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-16-2021 at 04:40 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This seems relevant given the discussion:

    https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/...ors-no-labels/

    Joe Manchin's audio with a bunch of billionaire donors was leaked and in it he appears to be trying very hard to keep the filibuster from being repealed.
    I don't think the filibuster should be repealed unless there is a truly country destroying reason. And while I 100% oppose these voter restrictions, I don't think they are a high enough bar. Because the Republicans will gain power again and use the 50 vote threshold to pass strict voter ID on the country. I don't want that power used unless we are prepared to deal with the inevitable aftermath. I would have rathered Obama appoint more acting leaders in agencies and not have had Brett Kavanaugh or Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This seems relevant given the discussion:

    https://theintercept.com/2021/06/16/...ors-no-labels/

    Joe Manchin's audio with a bunch of billionaire donors was leaked and in it he appears to be trying very hard to keep the filibuster from being repealed.
    A lot of damning things were said, but I love how he runs to the donors to influences the republicans. Since they share the same paymaster, it makes sense to go to the bosses to complain about a co-worker, who aren't working to undercut those within his own party.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-16-2021 at 04:52 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Man I hope this is the case. She'll fumble. Mods don't like her, progs don't like her and independents don't like her.
    I mean, how else would they be planning it? If the incumbent isn't running, the party's logical push would be for the VP, yes?

    From a Republican standpoint (let's assume Trump isn't in the picture), who are they going to come up with that would be more popular than the VP of an administration that (currently) would be viewed as having righted the country under tough circumstances (not looking to argue this point atm, just going by approval ratings)
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    If the democrat is successful in making the changes that people can feel, I don't think they have to worry about alienation. But you are right, I don't think the DNC wants to be pushed farther left. There isn't enough money to do so. Pelosi would definitely lose her fundraising crown. Harris has less national political weight than Pence. She is a wave rider, as in she will champion anything that is popular with voters to get elected, then a leader. watching her flip-flopping on M4A was very telling during the primaries. She couldn't even win her home state. So she brings nothing to the ticket but her ethnicity.
    I met people out west recently that swear they have first hand knowledge of Harris 'sleeping her way up the ladder' in California, getting promotions and accolades not rightly earned. IF true, guaranteed that would be something brought up during any presidential campaign. By then, it would be news that's 4 years older, so it'd depend on what damage it would do in voters' eyes. It could very well be the Republicans aren't worried at all about Harris running...but a lot can happen in 3 years plus we don't know her running mate.

    And yes, I'm fully assuming Joe doesn't run again at 82...firstly, age, but secondly, while people want to discount it and I'm not saying it's a huge problem now, I have nurse friends (both Democrats so not like they're Trumpers) who've told me Joe shows definite signs of early dimentia. You'll note, for example, you'll rarely hear from him any other time than between 10am and 5pm because, when you see him later in the evening, some sundowners syndrome shows up.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I met people out west recently that swear they have first hand knowledge of Harris 'sleeping her way up the ladder' in California, getting promotions and accolades not rightly earned. IF true, guaranteed that would be something brought up during any presidential campaign. By then, it would be news that's 4 years older, so it'd depend on what damage it would do in voters' eyes. It could very well be the Republicans aren't worried at all about Harris running...but a lot can happen in 3 years plus we don't know her running mate.

    And yes, I'm fully assuming Joe doesn't run again at 82...firstly, age, but secondly, while people want to discount it and I'm not saying it's a huge problem now, I have nurse friends (both Democrats so not like they're Trumpers) who've told me Joe shows definite signs of early dimentia. You'll note, for example, you'll rarely hear from him any other time than between 10am and 5pm because, when you see him later in the evening, some sundowners syndrome shows up.
    If Joe has dementia or Alzheimers, then he's in good company. Reagan is one of our most popular presidents despite no doubtedly having suffered from it while in office.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I met people out west recently that swear they have first hand knowledge of Harris 'sleeping her way up the ladder' in California, getting promotions and accolades not rightly earned. IF true, guaranteed that would be something brought up during any presidential campaign. By then, it would be news that's 4 years older, so it'd depend on what damage it would do in voters' eyes. It could very well be the Republicans aren't worried at all about Harris running...but a lot can happen in 3 years plus we don't know her running mate.

    And yes, I'm fully assuming Joe doesn't run again at 82...firstly, age, but secondly, while people want to discount it and I'm not saying it's a huge problem now, I have nurse friends (both Democrats so not like they're Trumpers) who've told me Joe shows definite signs of early dimentia. You'll note, for example, you'll rarely hear from him any other time than between 10am and 5pm because, when you see him later in the evening, some sundowners syndrome shows up.
    I don't deal in hear-say. I have seen it use, rightly and more often wrongly, against those I support. I am sure the right wing side is buzzing about it.

    I agree that Biden has some early-stage dementia, but when Reagan showed an even worse case of it the republican voters still voted him back in the office. Like Reagan before him, it will be his inner circle and spokespeople who carry the day. If Biden is successful, I am sure the democrat voter will do what the republicans did in the eighties, ignore it and vote for him
    Last edited by WES445; 06-16-2021 at 06:33 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    If Joe has dementia or Alzheimers, then he's in good company. Reagan is one of our most popular presidents despite no doubtedly having suffered from it while in office.
    again, I have no issue right now

    ...but at least you're consistent...because you know damn well were the parties reversed, you wouldn't be so quick to think the same way
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    A lot of damning things were said, but I love how he runs to the donors to influences the republicans. Since they share the same paymaster, it makes sense to go to the bosses to complain about a co-worker, who aren't working to undercut those within his own party.
    It seems like repealing the filibuster is an impossibility at this point, if Manchin feels this strongly about it.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I don't deal in hear-say. I have seen it use, rightly and more often wrongly, against those I support. I am sure the right wing side is buzzing about it.

    I agree that Biden has some early-stage dementia, but when Reagan showed an even worse case of it the republican voters still voted him back in the office. Like Reagan before him, it will be his inner circle and spokespeople who carry the day. If Biden is successful, I am sure the democrat voter will do what the republicans did in the eighties, ignore it and vote for him
    I was likely paying even less attention to his mental state. I do remember joking more than once about Reagan's afternoon naps. But he would have 'only' been 73 when re-elected, I believe....so even when he left office he was younger than when Joe began.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It seems like repealing the filibuster is an impossibility at this point, if Manchin feels this strongly about it.
    Others share Manchin's stance on it as well, so it isn't just him. It is a good idea, thus preventing the republicans from taking advantage of its absence when they take over the Hill.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

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