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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Placing a bet on what you think will happen is different than waiting and seeing what actually happened. If I place a bet on an outcome it means that I don't really know the outcome and I have the option to gamble on it because it is up in the air. That's not the same thing as someone actually doing something bad it is an assumption/bet they will.
    Let me put it another way if I cause confusion., Biden isn't going to change anything. He won't be a transformative president like you hope. I ran out of patience with the wall street dems. a long time ago. I didn't hold my nose to vote for him cause I vote for anybody but Biden and Trump. Now he pushing bi-partisanship with a party that is trying to change the voting process in their favor and has pissed on the constitution by denying Obama the presidential right to appoint a Supreme Court judge. That last is good enough to prove these republicans will not do bi-partisan in good faith. So he is proving he is stupid as well

    I am not at all saying Biden (or Clinton) types don't have anything to prove. I am in agreement on what has been happening and am very skeptical things will change. We need to wait until we aren't just betting on what will happen before we criticize as if it is Biden's fault. When it happens it will be clear why/how and Biden's actions will dictate how much criticism he deserves. Attacking him for having the low odds or low likelihood change is coming is different than attacking him for actually not having fought for that change with little happening under his presidency. As I noted you can keep pressure on and everything just realize this will take time and his specific response to setbacks etc. matters more than our guesses.
    Nice. You play wait and see, that is your right. I am going to keep attacking moderate, Biden as I did Trump and republicans. y'all keep ignoring that the political system is corrupt, broken, and keep expecting it to make formative changes that go against their donor's wishes.

    I will say that his appointment to the Interior and Attorney General is good.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    It becomes more and more obvious by the day that you dont really care about policy at all. You wanted Bernie. If he were president and these things happened youd have 0 issues with whats happening right now.
    Bernie is a relic. His time has come and gone. He had his chance, and he blew it. Not once have I mention his name in support of anything since he withdrew. The way he ran his limp wrist campaign was deplorable and he like Liz Warren doesn't have the support they use to have, and now they are just targets for those like you to attack. Fine, they deserve it. It is you who have Bernie on his mind, I have forgotten about him. He was, too many, the last chance to turn this ship around and he fails them. I still respect him for what he has done in the past and standing by his conviction unlike a lot of politicians. Plus, he isn't beholding to big buck donors like the moderate. Do you know when big businesses spend money on politicians they expect a return?

    And you support corrupt politicians and the system they run, so you ain't nothing but little sheep talking loud but saying nothing.

    If you want to be insulting, I can do that as well.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Bernie is a relic. His time has come and gone. He had his chance, and he blew it. Not once have I mention his name in support of anything since he withdrew. The way he ran his limp wrist campaign was deplorable and he like Liz Warren doesn't have the support they use to have, and now they are just targets for those like you to attack. Fine, they deserve it. It is you who have Bernie on his mind, I have forgotten about him. He was, too many, the last chance to turn this ship around and he fails them. I still respect him for what he has done in the past and standing by his conviction unlike a lot of politicians. Plus, he isn't beholding to big buck donors like the moderate. Do you know when big businesses spend money on politicians they expect a return?

    And you support corrupt politicians and the system they run, so you ain't nothing but little sheep talking loud but saying nothing.

    If you want to be insulting, I can do that as well.
    That doesn't rebuttal anything I said. Doesn't even address it.

    I'm not attacking either of them lol. I'm attacking you. If the same thing was happening to Bernie, and he was president now, I'd be 100% on his side. And you'd be too.

    And stop with the "corporate money" song and dance. If you want to point out specific corruption go ahead. Stop with the vague nothingness comments. We get it. Biden is part of the Illumnati and isn't to be trusted. He's white, and he once was friends with a segregationist. AKA basically Hitler.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Let me put it another way if I cause confusion., Biden isn't going to change anything. He won't be a transformative president like you hope. I ran out of patience with the wall street dems. a long time ago. I didn't hold my nose to vote for him cause I vote for anybody but Biden and Trump. Now he pushing bi-partisanship with a party that is trying to change the voting process in their favor and has pissed on the constitution by denying Obama the presidential right to appoint a Supreme Court judge. That last is good enough to prove these republicans will not do bi-partisan in good faith. So he is proving he is stupid as well

    Nice. You play wait and see, that is your right. I am going to keep attacking moderate, Biden as I did Trump and republicans. y'all keep ignoring that the political system is corrupt, broken, and keep expecting it to make formative changes that go against their donor's wishes.

    I will say that his appointment to the Interior and Attorney General is good.
    Give me one thing that Biden has suggested in his presidency that represents the "Moderates".

  5. #230
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    We'll get clarity on HR1 and infrastructure soon.

    What should my expectations be for other issues that Spock, Wes, dbroncs and I all clearly value?

    Climate change especially. We all agree in the immediacy and severity of the issue. What should I reasonably demand from this admin?

    Health care? Do I just have to suck it up and accept that Obama care is the best we can do for a while? What's a fair expectation for me?

    Can I be upset if we dont get a wealth tax?

    I'm scared to ask about foreign policy. Espeically because of this hawkishness towards Russia and China from Dems...

    Maybe it's a silly exercise. I don't know. My expectations are different than Wes' let alone Spock's.

    Immigration? Criminal justice reform?

    We spent a lot of time under Trump talking about these issues. I'm sure some others even took to the streets a few times. This is a great opportunity to get something done. I think it's more important than ever to apply pressure and demand a lot. Shoot for the stars!

    I'm not crazy, right?
    Last edited by ManRam; 06-15-2021 at 06:54 PM.

  6. #231
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    Manram

    We spent a lot of time under Trump talking about these issues. I'm sure some others even took to the streets a few times. This is a great opportunity to get something done. I think it's more important than ever to apply pressure and demand a lot. Shoot for the stars!

    I'm not crazy, right?[/QUOTE]

    A firm believer in pressuring politicians to do the right thing on the social issue. They wouldn't do it else-wise. They didn't allow women the right to vote until pressured to do so. Didn't enact labor laws without pressure to do so.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Give me one thing that Biden has suggested in his presidency that represents the "Moderates".
    He is a moderate.

    what makes you think he represents something outside his moderate value? He accepts big business donor money, that is something the progressives don't do.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-15-2021 at 07:51 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    Don't count your chickens before they come home to roost my friend. He's holding up legislation that has broad support in his state and is very divisive within his own party. Republican voters will certainly be reminded that he voted to convict Trump twice when his challenger brings it up, and so will Trump himself when he attempts his 2024 comeback and probably personally campaigns against Manchin. Manchin is cooked.
    Iím not saying itís a guarantee but I will say I trust his gauge on West Virginia voters over anyone here. Itís not about worshiping Trump. Itís about knowing the voters and them knowing you. Heís a known commodity there.

  9. #234
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    Trump was a known commodity as well. You could be known for negatives reasons as well
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    We'll get clarity on HR1 and infrastructure soon.

    What should my expectations be for other issues that Spock, Wes, dbroncs and I all clearly value?

    Climate change especially. We all agree in the immediacy and severity of the issue. What should I reasonably demand from this admin?

    Health care? Do I just have to suck it up and accept that Obama care is the best we can do for a while? What's a fair expectation for me?

    Can I be upset if we dont get a wealth tax?

    I'm scared to ask about foreign policy. Espeically because of this hawkishness towards Russia and China from Dems...

    Maybe it's a silly exercise. I don't know. My expectations are different than Wes' let alone Spock's.

    Immigration? Criminal justice reform?

    We spent a lot of time under Trump talking about these issues. I'm sure some others even took to the streets a few times. This is a great opportunity to get something done. I think it's more important than ever to apply pressure and demand a lot. Shoot for the stars!

    I'm not crazy, right?
    Just him getting elected made a massive move in climate change. You already are seeing this with car companies moving forward with plans to go full electric. He reentered the Paris Agreement.

    A lot of these things are just too early to determine. He's received backing from the coal miners union in regards to his climate plan, in exchange for reassurance that their displaced work force will receive worker retraining and government assistance to help with the transition.

    This infrastructure bill is very tricky. Because they cannot add things to it, that doesn't directly involve the federal budget (because if they do, they risk a Republican filibuster) but at the same time have to have all 50 Senators vote for it (which has been proven near impossible when it comes to Manchin).

    As far as healthcare, they would be dumb to pursue significant change right now. IT's historically a deathnote for your administration. Obama took that risk because he believed he had a Super Majority in the senate. He ended up not getting the public option he wanted, and killing his parties chances in the midterms. Gaining 0 political capital from the bill as favorability of ObamaCare didn't start rising till the bill was full implemented 5 years later when it started to skyrocket.

    In other words it makes more sense for the Democrats to pursue this legislation at a different time. THey don't have the political capital to do so, and even if they did it would be more intelligent to push after the midterms or even better after a reelection.

    Good luck on immigration reform. What exactly do you want? Because you're never going to get the radical proposals that would be necessary to help with the border.

    From what I can tell the only way to satisfactorily fix the border (this is assuming that people want immigration, and aren't just completely protectionist on the subject) is to set up an amnesty program. Something where people already here can work their way to citizenships in lets say 5 years. The further they go down the program the more benefits they receive till they get their full citizenship classification.

    THen strengthen border security, and allow for an easier system for low wage workers to come to America on these same terms, with a special type of VISA. Raise taxes on the rich (which is another whole conversation) and redistribute some of the earning they receive due to the influx of low wage workers to the low "uneducated native worker" who have their wages effected due to the immigration.

    None of this is ever going to happen because the border is a mess.

    Its crazy to me that you call USA hawkish. China needs to stay in their damn lane. The Taiwanese are not Hong Kong. THey will not surrender at first contact.

    And **** Russia. Putin also needs to settle the **** down.

    I don't know where you stand on these 2 countries, but I know a lot of lefties online seam to sympathize with China for some damn reason. Apparently imperialism is only a problem when America does it. And I'm just not a full on protectionist. I think it's naive to think America needs to back down from these countries. Especially while China is clearly trying to expand and Russia is trying to rebuild the Soviet Union.

    At the end of the day. Are #1 goal right now should be to take more Senate seats. As it will be very difficult to pass legislation without more seats.

    WHat specific policies are you looking for in lets say his first 4 years in office? WHat would be a satisfactory performance from the Biden admin in this time?
    Last edited by MRSpock; 06-15-2021 at 08:06 PM.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    That doesn't rebuttal anything I said. Doesn't even address it.

    I'm not attacking either of them lol. I'm attacking you. If the same thing was happening to Bernie, and he was president now, I'd be 100% on his side. And you'd be too.

    And stop with the "corporate money" song and dance. If you want to point out specific corruption go ahead. Stop with the vague nothingness comments. We get it. Biden is part of the Illumnati and isn't to be trusted. He's white, and he once was friends with a segregationist. AKA basically Hitler.

    So big businesses just give tons of money to politicians and don't expect anything in return. Did you see the pork in the last stimulus bill, that the politicians put in, that passed before Biden got into office? Our tax dollars have been used for pork to their donors

    Who said anything about Illuminati? Are we voicing our inner rant?
    Last edited by WES445; 06-15-2021 at 08:08 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    So big businesses just give tons of money to politicians and don't expect anything in return. Do you see the pork in the last stimulus bill that passed before Biden got into office?

    Who said anything about Illuminati? Are we voicing our inner rant?
    You just always refer to blanket "he takes corporate money, so he's corrupt" nonsense.

    It's the online lefty playbook. If I can't point to something specific just vaguely claim "rigged" or "unfair".

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Just him getting elected made a massive move in climate change. You already are seeing this with car companies moving forward with plans to go full electric. He reentered the Paris Agreement.
    That move to electric cars has been happening for a while. It has been the automaker's goal for some time, It didn't just pop up when Biden was elected.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    You just always refer to blanket "he takes corporate money, so he's corrupt" nonsense.

    It's the online lefty playbook. If I can't point to something specific just vaguely claim "rigged" or "unfair".
    Online lefty playbook. Someone been playing with Brett.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    You just always refer to blanket "he takes corporate money, so he's corrupt" nonsense.

    It's the online lefty playbook. If I can't point to something specific just vaguely claim "rigged" or "unfair".
    I never said he was corrupt. I said the system is corrupt and broken. Biden's past political policies make me not trust him. Taking corporate money is troublesome because businesses don't give money without expecting a return.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

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