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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    If bi-partisan means we're going to cut out all the climate proposals in the infrastructure bill and pay for a bare bones plan solely on the backs of workers like the one the Senate negotiated then that is the problem.

    Raising taxes on the super rich to pay for infrastructure is actually something both democratic and republican voters can agree on, but raising taxes on the rich for any reason is the most controversial thing in Washington. That's because they are all under a mandate from their donors, who bribe them. My rants in the OP and throughout this thread are actually more targeted towards this system we're under as opposed to Biden himself, and that I believe he should step aside in 2024 because we need someone who will actually try to change it if we ever want to get anywhere. Biden did say that he is not the future, only a bridge, after all.

    But to answer your question, again, if they hide behind bi partisanship to screw over workers and half-*** the infrastructure bill then that is the problem. I'll also tell you now that is exactly what they plan to do.
    Beware of the they

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    The only reason he won is because everyone dropped out making him the only centrists, except Warren who stayed in to spite bernie
    Don't let Trump hear you say this...you're supposed to call Biden a socialist. You might end up on the bad side of MAGA-ville if you go against the Trump line.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    "Mainstream Democrats". What makes me a "mainstream democrat".

    All my policy positions are left, but somehow I get labeled a "Moderate" or "mainstream" because I don't coddle these babies throwing temper tantrums after 5 months of this presidency.

    Because I'm not a full on Socialist like people in this site I guess that makes me a "mainstream dem".
    LOL. Way to undermine your own post.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    LOL. Way to undermine your own post.
    Why is that?

  5. #185
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    Spock, could Biden do anything to lose you?

    Look at what Mitch said the other day? He's basically taunting Democrats. It's almost like he knows Dems won't get in the way and stop him. He knows court-packing and tipping the SCOTUS into his favor is just about the most effective thing he can do to unleash his cruel politics on the country. Maybe we fight hard to not let that be the case?

    I honestly just want the Biden administration to treat these issues with the same gravity that every Liberal on twitter did under Trump. Our Democracy is at stake, right? Mitch is trying to destroy it, right? We heard it non-stop under Trump...so why aren't we jumping down the administration's neck every day no progress is made? Do we really think they are fighting as hard as they can? I guarantee you many people don't feel that way. It doesn't help that Biden is essentially invisible.

    Dems can not afford to squander this little window of opportunity. I think Biden did well his first few weeks reversing Trump-era EOs. But now it's time for the big work to be done. I'd be comforted if I felt like we had a tireless advocate for many of these issues in office but I don't think we do. I don't think that's controversial either.

    In the end, people will expect results. It's too early to judge Biden and maybe he is able to pull off a much-needed voter-rights bill. Maybe he is able to pull off a transformative infrastructure bill. Maybe he taxes the rich. Maybe he ramps down imperialism. Maybe he fixes Obamacare or replaces it with the much-better alternative that we deserve. Maybe he passes bold legislation to truly combat climate change. There's a lot of good that can be done! I hope and expect he does his best.

    Until then, I want to see fight. I want to see an administration that is a tireless advocate for these things. And if we don't, any Lib that's sitting here making excuses is out of their damn mind.
    HELLO

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Spock, could Biden do anything to lose you?

    Look at what Mitch said the other day? He's basically taunting Democrats. It's almost like he knows Dems won't get in the way and stop him. He knows court-packing and tipping the SCOTUS into his favor is just about the most effective thing he can do to unleash his cruel politics on the country. Maybe we fight hard to not let that be the case?

    I honestly just want the Biden administration to treat these issues with the same gravity that every Liberal on twitter did under Trump. Our Democracy is at stake, right? Mitch is trying to destroy it, right? We heard it non-stop under Trump...so why aren't we jumping down the administration's neck every day no progress is made? Do we really think they are fighting as hard as they can? I guarantee you many people don't feel that way. It doesn't help that Biden is essentially invisible.

    Dems can not afford to squander this little window of opportunity. I think Biden did well his first few weeks reversing Trump-era EOs. But now it's time for the big work to be done. I'd be comforted if I felt like we had a tireless advocate for many of these issues in office but I don't think we do. I don't think that's controversial either.

    In the end, people will expect results. It's too early to judge Biden and maybe he is able to pull off a much-needed voter-rights bill. Maybe he is able to pull off a transformative infrastructure bill. Maybe he taxes the rich. Maybe he ramps down imperialism. Maybe he fixes Obamacare or replaces it with the much-better alternative that we deserve. Maybe he passes bold legislation to truly combat climate change. There's a lot of good that can be done! I hope and expect he does his best.

    Until then, I want to see fight. I want to see an administration that is a tireless advocate for these things. And if we don't, any Lib that's sitting here making excuses is out of their damn mind.
    I think you are confusing the Biden administration not whining like children, as the previous administration did, when something doesn't go their way or they don't have the numbers to make something happen. They are bound by constitutional rules that limit what they can do. That's why despite all their bluster, the Trump administration did virtually nothing that can't be washed away like sand at the beach. They had virtually no long term impact on our federal laws.

    The first thing that you ask Biden to do isn't something Biden can do. He can't just pack the court as if it's a grocery list and he can add a couple new items. That requires the passage of a law. Which, because it's not budgetary related, requires 60 votes to get through a filibuster or for two senators who have told you they won't remove the filibuster to agree to do just that. This is a make believe world where we don't have constitutional constraints about what can and can't be done. You have at most 48 out of the required 50 votes to do what you want to do. It's not happening and the party needs to stop acting like it will happen. If you can get more senators in the next election, then MAYBE. But I can tell you that I am 100% opposed to removing the filibuster because I can see beyond the immediate desire for power and changes to the law. I keep harping on it but it's because people refuse to see beyond the election cycle we are in. Democrats changed the rules in 2013 and it bit them in the *** when Amy Coney Barrett was confirmed to replace Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Because of that rule change 8 years later a women who will undue Ruth's legacy the first chance she gets was confirmed to the Supreme Court.

    That's what Democrats are ultimately pushing for. Because despite their belief that once they pass these laws and make these changes that Republicans will NEVER gain power again, that's just not how it works. And they will use and abuse the system.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Why is that?
    Come on. You’re a smart guy. You whine about being labelled — and possibly incorrectly, though I do not believe that to be the case — and then you go ahead and slap-dash a specious label on others (unspecified others, but presumably those in the conversation at hand).

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I think you are confusing the Biden administration not whining like children, as the previous administration did, when something doesn't go their way or they don't have the numbers to make something happen. They are bound by constitutional rules that limit what they can do. That's why despite all their bluster, the Trump administration did virtually nothing that can't be washed away like sand at the beach. They had virtually no long term impact on our federal laws.

    The first thing that you ask Biden to do isn't something Biden can do. He can't just pack the court as if it's a grocery list and he can add a couple new items. That requires the passage of a law. Which, because it's not budgetary related, requires 60 votes to get through a filibuster or for two senators who have told you they won't remove the filibuster to agree to do just that. This is a make believe world where we don't have constitutional constraints about what can and can't be done. You have at most 48 out of the required 50 votes to do what you want to do. It's not happening and the party needs to stop acting like it will happen. If you can get more senators in the next election, then MAYBE. But I can tell you that I am 100% opposed to removing the filibuster because I can see beyond the immediate desire for power and changes to the law. I keep harping on it but it's because people refuse to see beyond the election cycle we are in. Democrats changed the rules in 2013 and it bit them in the *** when Amy Coney Barrett was confirmed to replace Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Because of that rule change 8 years later a women who will undue Ruth's legacy the first chance she gets was confirmed to the Supreme Court.

    That's what Democrats are ultimately pushing for. Because despite their belief that once they pass these laws and make these changes that Republicans will NEVER gain power again, that's just not how it works. And they will use and abuse the system.
    Did you see all the public pressure Biden put on Manchin when Manchin sabotaged a necessary bill? Me neither!

    I don't want him to be a whiney child, I want him to be an advocate. I understand the limited powers of a President (I also didn't say he should pack the court in my post -- though Dems should IMO). But above all else he has the power to shape the platform and agenda of his party. If Trump succeeded at anything, it was that. The GOP is now his party and his agenda reigns supreme. I don't expect Biden to be Trump or anything, but I do expect a lot. We all knew how consequential this time period was even before we knew who the Democratic nominee was. Why shouldn't we have high expectations. I was told all sorts of reasons as to why Biden was the guy...I want to see that play out!

    It's why I made the thread and tried to get the more mainstream Dems on this site to set their expectations before he took office. I kinda figured a lot of the intensity and frankly hysteria would die down on a lot of these issues. I heard that we were on the brink of losing our Democracy...and now HR1 is dead and I'm not sure where they go from here. If the stakes are so high, why isn't every single person with a public face in that administration advocating for this tirelessly? How did they not buy one of the most easily bought Senators in this country?

    I will say again though that 2024 is way too far away. And that's why I'm focusing more on the how he's governing than the results at this point. I don't fault him for not fixing every problem of which there are many.

    But if HR1 dies, why shouldn't we blame him? And how can Dem who is engaged enough to be on this site accept failure there?

    And lastly, anyone can roll their eyes at this if they want, but I guarantee you that if Sanders...or even Warren to a lesser extent...we President now you'd feel a very different tone from the White House. Those guys I TRULY believe care about these issues. Their passion, especially Sanders', can not be questioned. We know his policy wants and we know he's a tireless advocate for them. It is impossible to say that about Biden. I want that comfort in the White House. Maybe some day (LOL!).
    Last edited by ManRam; 06-15-2021 at 11:52 AM.
    HELLO

  9. #189
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    They will accept the failure and look to blame everybody else, but Biden. pesky republicans, the process, uncle Bernie, delusional progressives, the rock in their shoe.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-15-2021 at 12:20 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  10. #190
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    It's just too early to be saying a lot of this for sure, we have to at least give time to see how it plays out. I am not expecting him to necessarily make massive change and I can agree with keeping pressure on too.

    End of the day though he was absolutely sold as the person who could actually make said changes needed unlike other options. We were told he has a history of getting things done blah blah blah. That's the expectations set by him and his campaign in trying to court many voters within the party. If he stays a bit more silent and out of the picture on pushing major issues and there is little change a couple years out that will be different and the time to really call him out.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Spock, could Biden do anything to lose you?

    Look at what Mitch said the other day? He's basically taunting Democrats. It's almost like he knows Dems won't get in the way and stop him. He knows court-packing and tipping the SCOTUS into his favor is just about the most effective thing he can do to unleash his cruel politics on the country. Maybe we fight hard to not let that be the case?

    I honestly just want the Biden administration to treat these issues with the same gravity that every Liberal on twitter did under Trump. Our Democracy is at stake, right? Mitch is trying to destroy it, right? We heard it non-stop under Trump...so why aren't we jumping down the administration's neck every day no progress is made? Do we really think they are fighting as hard as they can? I guarantee you many people don't feel that way. It doesn't help that Biden is essentially invisible.

    Dems can not afford to squander this little window of opportunity. I think Biden did well his first few weeks reversing Trump-era EOs. But now it's time for the big work to be done. I'd be comforted if I felt like we had a tireless advocate for many of these issues in office but I don't think we do. I don't think that's controversial either.

    In the end, people will expect results. It's too early to judge Biden and maybe he is able to pull off a much-needed voter-rights bill. Maybe he is able to pull off a transformative infrastructure bill. Maybe he taxes the rich. Maybe he ramps down imperialism. Maybe he fixes Obamacare or replaces it with the much-better alternative that we deserve. Maybe he passes bold legislation to truly combat climate change. There's a lot of good that can be done! I hope and expect he does his best.

    Until then, I want to see fight. I want to see an administration that is a tireless advocate for these things. And if we don't, any Lib that's sitting here making excuses is out of their damn mind.
    Sure Biden could lose my support. Can you name any reason he should have lost my support so far? Because before the election Biden was really just my "not Trump" pick. He's far exceeded my expectations in these first 5 months. I never expected the child credit to be passed in the Covid Bill. I never thought I'd see talks of Guantanamo Bay being closed. I never EVER thought he'd stop funding the Saudi's war in Yemen.

    My expectation was fix the Iran deal, undo a lot of the egregious EO that Trump pushed. Maybe pass a bill or 2 regarding healthcare, but nothing major. I didn't expect him to continue talking about a jobs program through the government. I didn't expect him to push hard for infrastructure.

    I want Biden to treat these issues like an adult, and not like someone on twitter.

    Like this is my problem. This is just all rhetorical nonsense. What does "fight hard" mean. What do you want Biden to do in the position he's in right now? Explain, please. Because all I'm getting right now is "he needs to care like us", "still no 15/hr federal minimum wage", "what about medicare for all". All your complaints are things that BIden has virtually no control of.

    I'm personally waiting right now for the next couple months as there's a good chance that you'll see Biden start peaking in popularity. And how he's going to leverage these things going into midterms. How his political traps fair against the right wing propaganda machine (and unfortunately the very small far left online propaganda).

    I want a bigger control in the Senate. I want to keep McConnel from being the majority leader in 2 years. I want DC/PR given statehood. I want free childcare. I want all these left polices passed just like you guys do.

    I'm just not delusional and think that Biden is what's bottlenecking this process. I want the Dems to gain a bigger advantage in the Senate, and in the House.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    They will accept the failure and look to blame everybody else, but Biden. pesky republicans, the process, uncle Bernie, delusional progressives, the rock in their shoe.
    They will get nothing done, continue to protect a system that robs and dehumanizes us, and then blame us when things don't get better. We have to defeat these democrats just as badly as we do republicans.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Come on. You’re a smart guy. You whine about being labelled — and possibly incorrectly, though I do not believe that to be the case — and then you go ahead and slap-dash a specious label on others (unspecified others, but presumably those in the conversation at hand).
    When people are talking about the "donor class" and "tearing down the system" it starts giving off some real Marxist vibes. A lot of these are repeated far left talking points.

    At some point if all I hear from people is "revolution", and "tearing down the status quo" I'm going to make these assumption. When I continuous hear Online Left Socialist talking points, it starts to paint a picture. If these people aren't Socialists, they are useful idiots.


    And BTW I'm personally not a Socialist, but I'm not afraid of Socialism. I think it's a bad idea (mainly in regards to economically) but I think people fear mongering Socialism only push more naïve people toward it. Especially in this era of people believing any conspiracy as long as it fits their narrative.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Did you see all the public pressure Biden put on Manchin when Manchin sabotaged a necessary bill? Me neither!

    I don't want him to be a whiney child, I want him to be an advocate. I understand the limited powers of a President (I also didn't say he should pack the court in my post -- though Dems should IMO). But above all else he has the power to shape the platform and agenda of his party. If Trump succeeded at anything, it was that. The GOP is now his party and his agenda reigns supreme. I don't expect Biden to be Trump or anything, but I do expect a lot. We all knew how consequential this time period was even before we knew who the Democratic nominee was. Why shouldn't we have high expectations. I was told all sorts of reasons as to why Biden was the guy...I want to see that play out!

    It's why I made the thread and tried to get the more mainstream Dems on this site to set their expectations before he took office. I kinda figured a lot of the intensity and frankly hysteria would die down on a lot of these issues. I heard that we were on the brink of losing our Democracy...and now HR1 is dead and I'm not sure where they go from here. If the stakes are so high, why isn't every single person with a public face in that administration advocating for this tirelessly? How did they not buy one of the most easily bought Senators in this country?

    I will say again though that 2024 is way too far away. And that's why I'm focusing more on the how he's governing than the results at this point. I don't fault him for not fixing every problem of which there are many.

    But if HR1 dies, why shouldn't we blame him? And how can Dem who is engaged enough to be on this site accept failure there?

    And lastly, anyone can roll their eyes at this if they want, but I guarantee you that if Sanders...or even Warren to a lesser extent...we President now you'd feel a very different tone from the White House. Those guys I TRULY believe care about these issues. Their passion, especially Sanders', can not be questioned. We know his policy wants and we know he's a tireless advocate for them. It is impossible to say that about Biden. I want that comfort in the White House. Maybe some day (LOL!).
    This has been explained to you multiple times. What do you think I'm going to say in regards to this statement?

    Because it's just getting stupid at this point. I will easily rebuttal this argument, and you'll never respond afterwards. THen you'll appear a month later to say the same **** again.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    This has been explained to you multiple times. What do you think I'm going to say in regards to this statement?

    Because it's just getting stupid at this point. I will easily rebuttal this argument, and you'll never respond afterwards. THen you'll appear a month later to say the same **** again.
    I mean, honestly...yeah. I log on to this site very sporadically. Once or twice a week. Often less frequently. I'll go look but that was weeks ago and I'm not even certain what thread it's in. It's a downside to message boards. So help me out here....



    Either way, something substantial has to be passed before the next elections or it's a failure. Look at the FLURRY of voter-suppression bills all over the country. Republicans are doing their all. I hope Dems are up for the fight. It won't be HR1 as is, and I hope the resultant is not something that's completely gutted.

    But until then, pardon my frustration. We couldn't get a simple majority! For a bill everyone wants! That's worrisome.

    I care really deeply about voting rights and I do truly think Republicans are willing to go to and have long been willing to go to great lengths to undermine elections and "democracy". I know you feel the same. We have a tiny window to get some things done here. Urgency, desperation, panic...it's all fine. Especially if you believe everything you said under Trump. Settling for less and justifying any bit of inaction or squandering is insane behavior to me.

    We aren't there yet and that's why I'm using my words carefully. But I am more worried now than I was months ago that bold legislation might just not happen...not just on voting rights, but most things. Lots of time to prove me wrong and I hope Libs are hellbent on proving us wrong!!! Make sure Joe does!! They should feel the pressure to get these things done!!
    HELLO

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