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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Well you guys are getting closer and closer to being honest at least. At the end of the day your problem is Democracy. You're not a fan. You want a president that acts like the totalitarian dictator that you dream of.

    Please explain to me what would change right now if Bernie Sanders was President and not Joe Biden.
    ......................... And this is getting nowhere. You're arguing with a straw man because you're either not comprehending what I'm saying or you just don't listen. Either way is bad. This will be my last post with you on this topic. The Democratic Party is going to change because we're never going to stop. The taking in money from anyone who will give it to them is going to stop. Joe Manchin is taking money from the Koch network now. He's only voting against the For the People Act because he wants to protect his dark money donors. That bill would force politicians to disclose dark money and that's his problem with it. Manchin used to advocate for Filibuster reform but now he's defending it as if his life depends on it. He was actually a Co-Sponser of the "For the People Act of 2019" but is now against this iteration of the bill. A poll came out and showed that 79% of West Virginians supported the legislation. Even if it's not that high it would be great for his constituents and has obvious broad appeal. Biden, Schumer, Pelosi, and the corporate media are putting no public pressure on Manchin to change his stances in any way because they're glad he's doing it. He's the one taking the punches for them because they want that corporate money to keep flowing too.

    https://www.salon.com/2021/06/10/joe...rporate-lobby/

    Justice Democrats was founded in 2017 and in the 2018 elections ran 79 progressive candidates against Democrats, Republicans, and Independents in federal, state, and local elections. 26 of them won their respective primaries and seven were ultimately elected to Congress. In 2020, they only had 17 candidates run, including the seven who won last time. 12 made it to the general election and 10 of them were elected to Congress, all seven incumbents winning re election easily. We are going to overtake this party from the bottom up and there will be no room for useless politicians who are paid off by oligarchs. We're actually fighting to take our democracy back from the oligarchs your favorite President so badly defends. What a legacy he's going to leave.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 06-14-2021 at 11:43 AM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The same voters who voted for Trump 51-47 in Florida voted to raise their state's minimum wage 61-39.
    Yeah, Biden didn't say a goddamn word about $15/hour minimum wage during the 2020 election, that's my point. What a loser.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 06-14-2021 at 11:45 AM.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The same voters who voted for Trump 51-47 in Florida voted to raise their state's minimum wage 61-39.
    And that is something that the democrat can capitalize off in getting more republican votes. The democrat could garner poor working Republican voters if they pushed hard for raising the minimum wage. There are a lot of poor rural folks who don't vote that could see this as a reason to vote democrat. There are a lot of poor people who don't vote because the system won't work for them. You ain't going to get new voters with the same old song and dance the moderates have been playing.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-14-2021 at 11:44 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    When someone is blaming the President of the USA for the institutions of the Democratic government he's inherited. It sound a lot like someone is hoping for a totalitarian dictator to destroy institutions and rebuild the country so that the laws they want implemented can pass.

    So yes, I'd say the problem is not liking Democracy.
    So, the US is the only so-called democracy in the world?

    (and it isnít even a democracy - but you knew that, right?)
    Last edited by Crovash; 06-14-2021 at 12:14 PM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    Yeah, Biden didn't say a goddamn word about $15/hour minimum wage during the 2020 election, that's my point. What a loser.
    He actually did multiple times. He also mentioned it during the first state of the union address. IT's also on his website as one of the policies he supports.

    Please keep posting so you can be the perfect demonstration for a dumb leftist who hates someone he knows nothing about.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    So, the US is the only so-called democracy in the world?

    (and it isnít even a democracy - but you knew that, right?)
    Democratic Republic obviously like I've already mentioned in this thread.

    THanks for the useless 2 cents though.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Duh, within a corrupt system that is tainted with racism or classism? You are giving me sheep talk. What do you think we have been doing for decades voting democrat? What documented steps have we been missing that don't need the DNC weight behind it to accomplish it? Either we are a representative government or not. If voting for the democrat party isn't enough to address our issue, be upfront about it when election time comes around.

    Social change has always come from pressure on the streets in the form of protest, not some political obstacle course. You keep trying to explain to me how to drive a car that is broken.

    If it is a matter of going to war or give the rich and corporations their pork, it gets done. When it comes to just social needs for all, well, we have the budget to consider and y'all need to do this and that and hope the DNC leadership approves and go to bat for you and then we have those pesky republicans.
    Iím reiterating how the system works and why you are misdirecting your issues. It sounds like you would be perfectly fine with Biden acting like Trump and doing things extrajudicially at every turn. If thatís ok with you, say so. But Iím not ok with an equal but opposite Trump.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    iím reiterating how the system works and why you are misdirecting your issues. It sounds like you would be perfectly fine with biden acting like trump and doing things extrajudicially at every turn. If thatís ok with you, say so. But iím not ok with an equal but opposite trump.
    bingo

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Iím reiterating how the system works and why you are misdirecting your issues. It sounds like you would be perfectly fine with Biden acting like Trump and doing things extrajudicially at every turn. If thatís ok with you, say so. But Iím not ok with an equal but opposite Trump.
    Well, that is just peachy. After another decade of unarm blacks being shot down in the street, you will at least have your dignity. I am so out of the democrat party and this corrupt system after this conservation. The only justice we will get will be from the streets because you have your morals to uphold more than getting things done.

    Good luck at the next election and don't send any more moderates into our neighborhood churches seeking votes. Y'all are worthless, Mr. I got my morals of the do-nothing party. You sure do tuck your morals to the side to support corrupt donor paid politicans.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Well, that is just peachy. After another decade of unarm blacks being shot down in the street, you will at least have your dignity. I am so out of the democrat party and this corrupt system after this conservation. The only justice we will get will be from the streets because you have your morals to uphold more than getting things done.

    Good luck at the next election and don't send any more moderates into our neighborhood churches seeking votes. Y'all are worthless, Mr. I got my morals of the do-nothing party. You sure do tuck your morals to the side to support corrupt donor paid politicans.
    Why would they if you are this hateful and angry towards the most progressive Presidential agenda in decades?

    I would personally never try to obtain the progressive vote knowing that anything less than the immediate implementation of the most radical changes to the US in a century is considered a failure.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    ......................... And this is getting nowhere. You're arguing with a straw man because you're either not comprehending what I'm saying or you just don't listen. Either way is bad. This will be my last post with you on this topic. The Democratic Party is going to change because we're never going to stop. The taking in money from anyone who will give it to them is going to stop. Joe Manchin is taking money from the Koch network now. He's only voting against the For the People Act because he wants to protect his dark money donors. That bill would force politicians to disclose dark money and that's his problem with it. Manchin used to advocate for Filibuster reform but now he's defending it as if his life depends on it. He was actually a Co-Sponser of the "For the People Act of 2019" but is now against this iteration of the bill. A poll came out and showed that 79% of West Virginians supported the legislation. Even if it's not that high it would be great for his constituents and has obvious broad appeal. Biden, Schumer, Pelosi, and the corporate media are putting no public pressure on Manchin to change his stances in any way because they're glad he's doing it. He's the one taking the punches for them because they want that corporate money to keep flowing too.

    https://www.salon.com/2021/06/10/joe...rporate-lobby/

    Justice Democrats was founded in 2017 and in the 2018 elections ran 79 progressive candidates against Democrats, Republicans, and Independents in federal, state, and local elections. 26 of them won their respective primaries and seven were ultimately elected to Congress. In 2020, they only had 17 candidates run, including the seven who won last time. 12 made it to the general election and 10 of them were elected to Congress, all seven incumbents winning re election easily. We are going to overtake this party from the bottom up and there will be no room for useless politicians who are paid off by oligarchs. We're actually fighting to take our democracy back from the oligarchs your favorite President so badly defends. What a legacy he's going to leave.
    His legacy currently is an outline for the most progressive President in decades. I can only imagine how much anger youíd have if a progressive were elected President and couldnít do half the things you want.

  12. #117
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    Several democrat officials are coming out and saying if Biden's infrastructure bill doesn't address climate changes they won't support it. wow, all the backtracking he has done on that bill to get the republican' support is starting to lose support within his own party. Senator Markey is leading the charge on this one. Hopefully isn't just a smoke and mirror complaining and it force Biden to keep climate change policies within this bill.

    How quickly Biden is running from campaign promises to soothe the republicans. Another four years of doing nothing about climate change?
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    His legacy currently is an outline for the most progressive President in decades. I can only imagine how much anger youíd have if a progressive were elected President and couldnít do half the things you want.
    Once again he hasn't passed any progressive bills to justify that statement. He was never a progressive to begin with so I don't understand where you are coming from.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Well, that is just peachy. After another decade of unarm blacks being shot down in the street, you will at least have your dignity. I am so out of the democrat party and this corrupt system after this conservation. The only justice we will get will be from the streets because you have your morals to uphold more than getting things done.

    Good luck at the next election and don't send any more moderates into our neighborhood churches seeking votes. Y'all are worthless, Mr. I got my morals of the do-nothing party. You sure do tuck your morals to the side to support corrupt donor paid politicans.
    This isn't a matter of dignity. It's a matter of how the system works and how on affects change in that system. I could sit around ranting and raving about my issues with the system but it will do the same amount of good.

    And you will be surprised to see that I agree with your last sentence in the first paragraph (bolded). But probably not your sentiment.

    The only real way to make lasting change in this country will be to do so from the local and state level. We already have examples of how local groups are working to implement many of the very changes that you are pushing for at the local level. Some states are pushing in the wrong direction on many issues but there are others who are pushing in the right direction.

    Alaska has passed a ranked choice voting system.

    Arizona increased taxes on high earners to pay teachers more.

    Florida increased the minimum wage.

    Missouri is increasing their Medicaid under Obamacare.

    Nebraska repealed a slavery or involuntary servitude punishment from their legal system.

    Nevada will require a relatively high percentage of energy to come from renewables.

    Oklahoma also expanded Medicaid under Obamacare.

    And about a dozen or so legalized marijuana.

    https://ballotpedia.org/2020_ballot_measures
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Once again he hasn't passed any progressive bills to justify that statement. He was never a progressive to begin with so I don't understand where you are coming from.
    His Covid relief bill was far more progressive than most in government wanted. He has signed many EOís pushing progressive policies. He even tried to get $15/hour into the Covid bill and his Infrastructure Bill is comprised mostly of climate change initiatives and a tax hike for wealthy corporations.

    Youíre complaining he isnít going far enough left when heís already gone farther left than any President in living memory.

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