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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Yes unfortunately in Democracies you have to make compromises and don't get to dictate what you want. Please let me know of a successful system of governance that doesn't seem to have this problem.
    Maybe instead of getting snarky about things, try reading what I wrote. Let me help you out:

    “Like any system, it [ours] has its pluses and minuses, and these — in particular the minuses — seem to have come into sharper focus in the last few election cycles.“

    That is an observation (refute it if you will), not a condemnation. I listed some of the problems (money, the EC, the Senate, gerrymandering — refute them also if you will). Bottom line is that you accept those aspects of the system because they are what they are, and they are not disappearing any time soon. You choose to function with the system, such as it is. Fair enough. Joe Biden is your man — and a real pro at that.

    Others are simply coming from a different perspective. They see the need for significant change to the system (which under our constitution is — for better and for worse — extremely difficult). And in particular, it is clear that very few of those currently in the system are really interested in modifying the system — that is to say, improving it (because it may in fact need improvement). Those folks want change. Fair enough. Joe Biden is not their man.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Florida is a swing state the leans right.

    If you honestly think that FLorida passing a law in their own state indicates they want the law passed FEDERALLY, you don't understand the foundational beliefs of the Conservative party in this country.

    I would bet Floridians are simultaneously for the passing of a $15/hr minimum wage in their state, and against a federal minimum wage of $15/hr. As Florida is the most anti federal government state in the nation probably. Even more so than Texas.
    OK I get it now. Federally advocating for something they passed with 61% support in their state is the difference between them voting Democrat or Republican. They think "Boy, I sure love that my state passed $15/hour, but because these crazy far left Democrats want to make it a federal law I'm going to vote Republican". Got it.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    In your heart of hearts. WHat do you think is the smarter way going forward? Push for more Democratic elected officials in the Senate or start a campaign against the Democrats for an election that won't be held for another 3+ years.

    You guys are worse than Hannity. He at least waited a year to call Obama the worst president in our history. You guys are trying to kill Bidens momentum, and he's just gotten started.

    Valade said this in another thread, that if you continue to campaign against Dems that are pushing for progressive policies you are just disincentivizing them from pushing for these changes. You guys are unwittingly shooting yourself in the foot.
    1st bold: The answer is both. Justice Democrats are really doing a lot of things to get Democrats elected and it's the establishment in Washington that doesn't want to work with them. You know the DCCC blacklists anyone who works with them right?

    2nd Bold: And there it is. You think we're worse than Republicans because we're not content by what we're seeing from Biden. You think I'm calling for him not to run again because I don't have everything I want in 5 months as you say, but that's obviously not true. I don't expect him to have done it all in 5 months, that's never been my point only the point you've tried to make for me. What I actually said is he's not doing anything at all because he's more interested in keeping the broken system the way it is and so it's going to eventually lead to something worse than Trump. We can't get anything done on immigration. Can't get anything done on infrastructure. Can't get higher pay for workers.

    You say "O well we don't 60 votes we just need more Democrats", but the reality is if we just accept the rules as they are and hope for the best in future elections, we'll go 20 years and move the needle just a couple inches. There are so many people we could help right now, but we're not. We're clinging to this idea that working with Republicans is going to solve our issues. That party literally doesn't care about what happened on January 6th and even refused to acknowledge that Biden won the election. They are only going to do and say more insane things in the future. I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if we have a Republican candidate openly saying the N word soon. They are the "HA! GOT EEM" political party now. They are akin to internet trolls who have no interest in governing in a meaningful way.

    And lastly, we only hear about bipartisanship when Democrats have control of Washington. Nobody said anything about how Republicans had to work with Democrats when Trump had the White House and both houses of Congress. They passed that insane tax cut for the rich, filled 25% of the federal bench, placed 3 judges on the Supreme Court (1 was downright stolen), and they did all that without Democratic support and nobody said a thing. Sure Democrats complained about it, but the media never said anything and there weren't any "moderate" Republicans holding things up saying we got to have Democratic input on legislation. Ask yourself why that is.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 06-14-2021 at 10:47 AM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    They aren't excuses. They are the rules of the road that our country has established. Nobody is saying that nothing will change in any serious way.
    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Well, why didna you say that earlier. HAHA, that makes the pain go down a whole lot easier. It is the rules of the road. The American rules of the road. That's been a good road for us. Still not a good selling point.
    I'm going to repeat the post you responded to except swap out excuses for selling point.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087
    They aren't selling point. They are the rules of the road that our country has established. Nobody is saying that nothing will change in any serious way.
    If you don't like the rules of the system, there are clearly documented steps for changing them. Such changes have been implemented 17 times in our nation's history. But to get there will require far more cooperation than you're seeking from the very people who don't want you making the changes. So I don't think it's a likely path. The path that I'm recommending to you is the more likely path. Work at the state and local level to push the policies that you're seeking.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    OK I get it now. Federally advocating for something they passed with 61% support in their state is the difference between them voting Democrat or Republican. They think "Boy, I sure love that my state passed $15/hour, but because these crazy far left Democrats want to make it a federal law I'm going to vote Republican". Got it.
    I can't honestly tell if you guys are trolling me at this point.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    1st bold: The answer is both. Justice Democrats are really doing a lot of things to get Democrats elected and it's the establishment in Washington that doesn't want to work with them. You know the DCCC blacklists anyone who works with them right?

    2nd Bold: And there it is. You think we're worse than Republicans because we're not content by what we're seeing from Biden. You think I'm calling for him not to run again because I don't have everything I want in 5 months as you say, but that's obviously not true. I don't expect him to have done it all in 5 months, that's never been my point only the point you've tried to make for me. What I actually said is he's not doing anything at all because he's more interested in keeping the broken system the way it is and so it's going to eventually lead to something worse than Trump. We can't get anything done on immigration. Can't get anything done on infrastructure. Can't get higher pay for workers.

    You say "O well we don't 60 votes we just need more Democrats", but the reality is if we just accept the rules as they are and hope for the best in future elections, we'll go 20 years and move the needle just a couple inches. There are so many people we could help right now, but we're not. We're clinging to this idea that working with Republicans is going to solve our issues. That party literally doesn't care about what happened on January 6th and even refused to acknowledge that Biden won the election. They are only going to do and say more insane things in the future. I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if we have a Republican candidate openly saying the N word soon.
    Well you guys are getting closer and closer to being honest at least. At the end of the day your problem is Democracy. You're not a fan. You want a president that acts like the totalitarian dictator that you dream of.

    Please explain to me what would change right now if Bernie Sanders was President and not Joe Biden.

  7. #97
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    HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAH. you f'ing snowflake
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I can't honestly tell if you guys are trolling me at this point.
    You literally said that you believe the same people who passed $15/hour in their state would oppose it federally. Even if that's true, it's almost certainly not, but even if it were it's pretty ridiculous to assume that it would change many votes at the end of the day. They want $15/hour, at least 61% of them do and the GOP actively doesn't want to give it to them. Honestly, your statement was ridiculous and deserved such a response.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 06-14-2021 at 11:00 AM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    You literally said that you believe the same people who passed $15/hour in their state would oppose it federally. Even if that's true, it's almost certainly not, but even if it were it's pretty ridiculous to assume that it would change many votes at the end of the day. They want $15/hour, at least 61% of them do and the GOP actively doesn't want to give it to them. Honestly, your statement was ridiculous and deserved such a response.
    The same voters who voted for Trump 51-47 in Florida voted to raise their state's minimum wage 61-39.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    At the end of the day your problem is Democracy. You're not a fan.
    Come on. This is flat-out ludicrous. The problem is not democracy. It may be that the problem is democracy as structured and practiced in the United States, but to say something as simplistic and erroneuous as this does nothing to foster greater respect for your position.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I'm going to repeat the post you responded to except swap out excuses for selling point.



    If you don't like the rules of the system, there are clearly documented steps for changing them. Such changes have been implemented 17 times in our nation's history. But to get there will require far more cooperation than you're seeking from the very people who don't want you making the changes. So I don't think it's a likely path. The path that I'm recommending to you is the more likely path. Work at the state and local level to push the policies that you're seeking.
    Duh, within a corrupt system that is tainted with racism or classism? You are giving me sheep talk. What do you think we have been doing for decades voting democrat? What documented steps have we been missing that don't need the DNC weight behind it to accomplish it? Either we are a representative government or not. If voting for the democrat party isn't enough to address our issue, be upfront about it when election time comes around.

    Social change has always come from pressure on the streets in the form of protest, not some political obstacle course. You keep trying to explain to me how to drive a car that is broken.

    If it is a matter of going to war or give the rich and corporations their pork, it gets done. When it comes to just social needs for all, well, we have the budget to consider and y'all need to do this and that and hope the DNC leadership approves and go to bat for you and then we have those pesky republicans.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    You literally said that you believe the same people who passed $15/hour in their state would oppose it federally. Even if that's true, it's almost certainly not, but even if it were it's pretty ridiculous to assume that it would change many votes at the end of the day. They want $15/hour, at least 61% of them do and the GOP actively doesn't want to give it to them. Honestly, your statement was ridiculous and deserved such a response.
    You really don't understand how a lot of voters for red states (traditional Consevatives) might be for something statewide but not necessarily federal? You've never heard this before?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAH. you f'ing snowflake
    What are you talking about? Wow if you're a 66 year old man, maybe try acting your age. Instead of yelling snowflake like Jesse Lee Peterson.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Come on. This is flat-out ludicrous. The problem is not democracy. It may be that the problem is democracy as structured and practiced in the United States, but to say something as simplistic and erroneuous as this does nothing to foster greater respect for your position.
    When someone is blaming the President of the USA for the institutions of the Democratic government he's inherited. It sound a lot like someone is hoping for a totalitarian dictator to destroy institutions and rebuild the country so that the laws they want implemented can pass.

    So yes, I'd say the problem is not liking Democracy.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Duh, within a corrupt system that is tainted with racism or classism? You are giving me sheep talk. What do you think we have been doing for decades voting democrat? What documented steps have we been missing that don't need the DNC weight behind it to accomplish it? Either we are a representative government or not. If voting for the democrat party isn't enough to address our issue, be upfront about it when election time comes around.

    Social change has always come from pressure on the streets in the form of protest, not some political obstacle course. You keep trying to explain to me how to drive a car that is broken.

    If it is a matter of going to war or give the rich and corporations their pork, it gets done. When it comes to just social needs for all, well, we have the budget to consider and y'all need to do this and that and hope the DNC leadership approves and go to bat for you and then we have those pesky republicans.
    It comes from both lol.

    ALl your point are nothing more than rhetoric.

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