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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    Good to see the progressive Democrats turn on themselves inside 6 months of Joe being in office. Not surprising in the least, I think we all knew they play to lose so it was just a matter of time.

    Should be smooth sailing for the Republicans in the House elections and then in 2024 to put the nail in the coffin for Democrats and progressive dreams.
    We've known what Biden is for longer than six months I can tell you that. If the GOP win in 2022 the fault lies entirely on the corporate Democrats who chose to protect their donors over passing the legislation they promised.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    1. What does Biden getting elected have anything to do with any of this being able to pass or not.

    2. Instead of a $15/hr minimum wage Biden passed a refundable tax rate which will massively cut the embarrassingly high child poverty rate in the USA. A tax break that becomes available in 3 days I believe. And it won't have the economic stabilization that will inevitably happen under a 15/hr minimum wage leading to an unchanged living standard amongst the working class.

    3. It's so weird to me that supposed "leftists" and "progressives" see the difficulties in getting things passed and instead of pushing to get more left leaning candidates to win elections and give us a bigger advantage in the Senate and house are pushing against the left and are hoping for the party to fail. As if AOC and Bernie all of a sudden gaining control of the house and the Presidency would evaporate any problem with passing meaningful legislature.

    4. Your problem isn't with Joe Biden. Your problem is with Democracy. You want the President to be able to roll in rough shot and change everything that you want changed with a snap of his fingers. Unfortunately for you that's not how any successful Democracy in this World has ever worked.

    5. I'm not even going to go into detail with how incorrect and ridiculous your statement is on healthcare. It's such a mind blowing silly assertion. That somehow Employers paying for health care is the cause of low wages.

    6. So what exactly are you suggesting here exactly by the way? Joe Biden step down?

    You all just don't live in reality. You want a Trump for the left. Some wannabe totalitarian dictator that uses whatever dirty tricks he can to avoid legitimate governance.
    1. Well he campaigned on a much more progressive platform than the policies he's currently advocating for.

    2. You're lying at worst and misleading at best. The refundable child tax credits that he signed into law only last one year, the 2021 tax season. He is currently trying to make it permanent with the American Families Plan, but what he signed into law is only a one time thing. Not at all equivalent to $15/hour minimum wage.

    3. If Bernie had won it would have represented a monumental shift in our politics, Washington would forever be changed. The Democratic Party is a center-right party. We don't really have a left party in this country.

    4. No, my problem is with crony capitalism and oligarchy, which is what our society has devolved into.

    5. I didn't say it was the cause of low wages, only that it contributes to it and it does. Health insurance (a benefit) is factored in as compensation for workers by employers. What employers spend on health insurance is considered compensation to the worker. If the employer didn't spend money on health insurance, more compensation could go toward wages. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

    https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/emp...ons-and-wages/

    6. I'm suggesting that honestly we were doomed the minute he won the Democratic nomination. No I don't think he should resign but I don't think he should seek another term.

  3. #33
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    For some odd reason, people are thinking that Congress isn't there to address people's needs. If they can't do that, then why do we vote for them? I rather they do not make promises during election time to get our vote and then say "it would be magical" for them to achieve what they promise once they get in. You can't understand how that causes bitterness toward the Democrats, especially from the working poor and middle class, then gets ready for a republican take over in the next four years.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-13-2021 at 10:36 AM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  4. #34
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    Itís all about perspective.

    If you accept the reality of the US political system as it is structured (and extremely unlikely to change any time soon), Biden probably represents the best anyone left of the current Republican Party can expect. He is a professional politician, steeped in the very system he has helped to fashion and as such is, not surprisingly, a pennyboy for the establishment ó not necessarily a bad thing, just realistic. His is, by necessity, the middle path.

    The flip side of the coin is the system itself. Like any system, it has its pluses and minuses, and these ó in particular the minuses ó seem to have come into sharper focus in the last few election cycles. Money rules. The Electoral College undermines the vote. The Senate is unbalanced. Gerrymandering works. Primaries are ill-timed and exclusive. Debates are rigged. Votes are easily suppressed. And for the most part those who participate actively in the system are not inclined to change it.

    Add culture wars into the mix, and itís little wonder some folks out there on the right and the left are not just talking rebellion.

    All that said, climate change may be the straw that breaks this systemís back. Our own chickens will come home roost.
    Last edited by Crovash; 06-13-2021 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #35
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    I would say dis-respecting federal property, as in the Jan. 6th raid, tearing down national or state statues, unrest and riots, mass demonstrations and a serious disconnection from the political system, as in people not voting, are heading in that direction. It definitely doesn't indicate a fondness for our present leadership. You had people constructing gallows on the federal building steps last January. Isn't a good sign for a country that has witnessed the OKC bombing a few decades before.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  6. #36
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    If climate change becomes worst as predicted, we are toast. And these clowns in Washington are more into playing games and protecting their donors, than coming up with a soft landing in this upcoming crisis. We already having water shortages, wildfires due to the drought and I am hearing crickets sounds from DC as a response. I bet when that foot land on us, a lot of people will be demanding the politicians pull out their magic wands to protect their lifestyle.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  7. #37
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    If you believe the political system fails us with their pandemic response, what hope do you have they will do well when climate change start seriously affects our country?
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post
    Joe Manchin caters to Trump supporters as well. That's his only way of winning future elections there. He's just a holdover from 20+ years ago when West Virginia was a blue-collar, union-friendly blue state. Unfortunately, Manchin is the best we can get out of WV these days. His successor will be a Republican and will be even more worthless.
    You mean he represents the people who vote for him? I donít like his positions on some issues but thatís generally what we expect of the people we support.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    1. Well he campaigned on a much more progressive platform than the policies he's currently advocating for.

    2. You're lying at worst and misleading at best. The refundable child tax credits that he signed into law only last one year, the 2021 tax season. He is currently trying to make it permanent with the American Families Plan, but what he signed into law is only a one time thing. Not at all equivalent to $15/hour minimum wage.

    3. If Bernie had won it would have represented a monumental shift in our politics, Washington would forever be changed. The Democratic Party is a center-right party. We don't really have a left party in this country.

    4. No, my problem is with crony capitalism and oligarchy, which is what our society has devolved into.

    5. I didn't say it was the cause of low wages, only that it contributes to it and it does. Health insurance (a benefit) is factored in as compensation for workers by employers. What employers spend on health insurance is considered compensation to the worker. If the employer didn't spend money on health insurance, more compensation could go toward wages. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

    https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/emp...ons-and-wages/

    6. I'm suggesting that honestly we were doomed the minute he won the Democratic nomination. No I don't think he should resign but I don't think he should seek another term.

    1. NO he didn't. He did not campaign on a more progressive plan. This is just straight BS. Please tell me what progressive policies Biden has shifted from.

    2. Ok where does that show I'm lying? Yes the refundable tax credit expires a few months before midterms.

    It's almost like he's setting the GOP to vote against this tax credit right before the midterms in a political trap. This is where it just seems like you guys don't understand the dynamics of politics. Do you think his plan is to get rid of the credit after a year? Right before the midterms? Why would he do that? Quit thinking with your feelings and use your brain.

    3. Blah blah blah. More far left rhetoric. Nothing to see here.

    4. ANd yet your plan to get rid of this is to hand elections to Republicans apparently.

    5. Or it could just go into more profits for companies. This is such a basic statement on such a complicated subject.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    1. NO he didn't. He did not campaign on a more progressive plan. This is just straight BS. Please tell me what progressive policies Biden has shifted from.

    2. Ok where does that show I'm lying? Yes the refundable tax credit expires a few months before midterms.

    It's almost like he's setting the GOP to vote against this tax credit right before the midterms in a political trap. This is where it just seems like you guys don't understand the dynamics of politics. Do you think his plan is to get rid of the credit after a year? Right before the midterms? Why would he do that? Quit thinking with your feelings and use your brain.

    3. Blah blah blah. More far left rhetoric. Nothing to see here.

    4. ANd yet your plan to get rid of this is to hand elections to Republicans apparently.

    5. Or it could just go into more profits for companies. This is such a basic statement on such a complicated subject.
    I think this one is the most important point to swat back on every time it comes up. Because it's the most dangerous to the party and country. There is some misconception that the Democratic party is this far-left party that if it just weren't for those rascally moderates that we would have Medicare-For-All, $15 minimum wage, and every other pipe dream of the far-left.

    The fact is that this country is very near the center and floats back and forth between the center-left and center-right. If it were far-left or far-right, then we would never see a member of one of the two major parties get elected president.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I think this one is the most important point to swat back on every time it comes up. Because it's the most dangerous to the party and country. There is some misconception that the Democratic party is this far-left party that if it just weren't for those rascally moderates that we would have Medicare-For-All, $15 minimum wage, and every other pipe dream of the far-left.

    The fact is that this country is very near the center and floats back and forth between the center-left and center-right. If it were far-left or far-right, then we would never see a member of one of the two major parties get elected president.
    I couldn't count on my fingers and toes the amount of times I've countered the delusional fantasy land that far leftists like to pretend to live in on this site. Where everyone is sold on M4A. And how everyone is trying to go as far left as possible and how the Dems and GOP are the exact same party just dressed different.

    There's never any truth to any of this, it's just a bunch of people who don't fundamentally understand politics and don't know how to do anything outside of stamp there feet and throw temper tantrums.

    THere whole thought process is "5 months and I don't have M4A or a 15/hr minimum wage? **** YOU BIDEN!!!!

    It's so unbelievably brain dead.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I couldn't count on my fingers and toes the amount of times I've countered the delusional fantasy land that far leftists like to pretend to live in on this site. Where everyone is sold on M4A. And how everyone is trying to go as far left as possible and how the Dems and GOP are the exact same party just dressed different.

    There's never any truth to any of this, it's just a bunch of people who don't fundamentally understand politics and don't know how to do anything outside of stamp there feet and throw temper tantrums.

    THere whole thought process is "5 months and I don't have M4A or a 15/hr minimum wage? **** YOU BIDEN!!!!

    It's so unbelievably brain dead.
    Like I said.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I couldn't count on my fingers and toes the amount of times I've countered the delusional fantasy land that far leftists like to pretend to live in on this site. Where everyone is sold on M4A. And how everyone is trying to go as far left as possible and how the Dems and GOP are the exact same party just dressed different.

    There's never any truth to any of this, it's just a bunch of people who don't fundamentally understand politics and don't know how to do anything outside of stamp there feet and throw temper tantrums.

    THere whole thought process is "5 months and I don't have M4A or a 15/hr minimum wage? **** YOU BIDEN!!!!

    It's so unbelievably brain dead.
    Most of the people who think like that aren't personally invested in the policies. They treat it more like it's a sport or competition rather than real life. It's why the people who are most directly impacted by the proposed policies and whose lives would improve the most if they were implemented are not whining, they're fighting harder to get more people elected who will support them.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  14. #44
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    Frankly, I am surprised at how well Joe has done to this point although my expectations werenít all that high when he was nominated. Pretty much hamstrung on a lot of important issues by the people hating Repugnuts on most legislative matters, he has still done a fairly good job restoring confidence in the office and our country.

    He efforts with G7 should bear fruit. It will be interesting to see how he does meeting with Satan.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I couldn't count on my fingers and toes the amount of times I've countered the delusional fantasy land that far leftists like to pretend to live in on this site. Where everyone is sold on M4A. And how everyone is trying to go as far left as possible and how the Dems and GOP are the exact same party just dressed different.

    There's never any truth to any of this, it's just a bunch of people who don't fundamentally understand politics and don't know how to do anything outside of stamp there feet and throw temper tantrums.

    THere whole thought process is "5 months and I don't have M4A or a 15/hr minimum wage? **** YOU BIDEN!!!!

    It's so unbelievably brain dead.
    Just because you have people who agree with you doesn't make either of you right. The notion that paying people a living wage and providing universal healthcare are fringe radical left ideas is flat wrong. They are not. Explain to me how every other nation on earth spends less money per person on healthcare than the we do and still manages to cover everyone? I don't want to hear anything about how impossible of an idea it is, I want an answer to that question. We both know you can't give a good answer to that question.

    The fact that it's considered "extreme" or "far left" to call out corruption is preposterous. You keep trying to minimize what I'm saying by claiming I don't understand politics, but what you apparently don't understand is that our current two-party system has ripped our country to shreds. You know the founders never wanted us to have these major political parties right? They considered them to be corrupt relics of a failed system of government (the British government at the time). Maybe we should vote out the bums, and these politicians are bums, who have contributed to this mess.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 06-13-2021 at 05:09 PM.

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