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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The problem is that most of the hacking is done by "private" citizens of Russia. They are people who are not directly or indirectly affiliated with their government but allowed to operate in their borders.
    I heard they are done by bears with whimsical names. Fancy is big


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_Bear


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  2. #332
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    Sorry this was uncall for on my part
    Last edited by WES445; 06-17-2021 at 12:03 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The problem is that most of the hacking is done by "private" citizens of Russia. They are people who are not directly or indirectly affiliated with their government but allowed to operate in their borders.
    With this stated, it makes me feel even more certain that we should chill with the collective hawkish(-ish?) rhetoric with them. Right? Like, if it's not the government then yeah...shore up our ****. Throw all you got into that and maybe let's get back to like...nuclear disarmament or something? Honestly, improving relations.

    People's attitudes towards Russia and China are all over the place. I'm not trying to say anyone in particular is getting carried away here, but the tone and rhetoric a lot of people use, especially politicians, rubs me the wrong way. It seems there's been a shift too since the 2016 election. People just getting a little too carried away with the rhetoric. Sounding a little too nationalist. Drinking a little too much of the American exceptionalism/"actually, we should be involved with everything globally" kool-aid. I don't like it!!! That's all...
    HELLO

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    maybe, not sure, don't remember

    I barely knew Joe prior to this campaign, Like most VPs, he was rarely in the spotlight and I've rarely paid much attention to politics. These past 18 months changed that, but I'm actively looking to retreat back to my normal lack of attention....I've got enough stress in my life.
    I can understand that. My apologies. I have a long history of having a fixation on the mover and shakers in politicians that my friends don't have. New Deal and the segregationist "Dixiecrats" were the first ones I use to follow Kennedy, Wallace, LBJ, McGovern, Goldwater, Stevenson, and their influence at my parent's insistence. My folks were involved in the Church and civil rights because of my mom's family experience, and blacks in general, in the Jim Crow south. And they always said, this will sound racist, "That you must keep an eye on those "white" politicians." We ate dinner around "Uncle Walter" newcast and often heard them commenting on the political and social events of the day.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-17-2021 at 12:39 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  5. #335
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    Funny, they did that because they read that Papa Joe Kennedy uses to have his kids read the paper at the dinner table after the dinner plates were cleared away.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I misread the bolster sentence You clearly meant China and Russia are doing imperialism to bolster their economy and military. Skimmed too hard too fast.

    I will say that China's imperialist nature is much different than Western imperialism, too. In A LOT of ways.

    Ultimately I'm not too sure why I care what they're doing. A lot of countries are doing a lot of bad things. Just because I don't want to antagonize either of these two countries too needlessly doesn't mean I support what they're doing. I just don't really care. And none of us would care at all if our military hasn't been so overextended for so ****ing long.

    I support Democracy. I think ethnic cleansing is bad. But what do you want Joe Biden to do about China? Or Russia? I'm truly just asking. Or, I mean, I wasn't asking. But now I am.

    You say "I should know better to discuss foreign policy one here". So talk it about it first. Not just with this vagueness. I want to know what you want Biden to do. It's fine if you don't know too! I'm not acting like I have the solutions. I just know what I don't want happening.
    Preferably not allow Russia to rebuild the Soviet Union, and run roughshot over the baltics again. We can be adversaries of China and Russia without being mortal enemies.

    But we can't stand there like an *******, as Russia hacks are nuclear defense systems, intervenes in our elections, and send drones to spy on our military sites.

    Like at some point you got to draw a line. I don't think China plans on being anywhere near as aggressive as Russia, and wants to win through public approval, and investing in other nations (such as the infrastructure they're building in Africa).

    It's hard to tell what happened at the summit and what kind of promises were made. But one thing to know about Biden, is this is his expertise. The man has been working on foreign policy decisions, particularly in regards to the baltics since the 70's. He knows these regions as well as anyone.

    And so far the Russia propaganda machine seems to be pushing out praise for Biden. So whatever was agreed upon, tensions seem much more at ease as of now.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    With this stated, it makes me feel even more certain that we should chill with the collective hawkish(-ish?) rhetoric with them. Right? Like, if it's not the government then yeah...shore up our ****. Throw all you got into that and maybe let's get back to like...nuclear disarmament or something? Honestly, improving relations.

    People's attitudes towards Russia and China are all over the place. I'm not trying to say anyone in particular is getting carried away here, but the tone and rhetoric a lot of people use, especially politicians, rubs me the wrong way. It seems there's been a shift too since the 2016 election. People just getting a little too carried away with the rhetoric. Sounding a little too nationalist. Drinking a little too much of the American exceptionalism/"actually, we should be involved with everything globally" kool-aid. I don't like it!!! That's all...
    It's sort of like if the nerd buys protection from a bully and starts paper at other people at the table. The bully is complicit in the crime even if he's not doing them himself. I agree with you that we should shore up our defenses, but one thing to know about IT is that defense is very hard to do and has to be done right 100% of the time. Whereas offense is very easy and only has to be successful 1 time out of a million. Honestly I don't know how you improve the defense without getting rid of people. If I ran a company with 100,000 employees; I could send an email asking for everyone to send me their password and I would get responses from an incredibly uncomfortable amount of people. Picture your parents/grandparents who put passwords on their sticky notes on their computer monitor. They will be the ones who send their password when just asked for it.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  8. #338
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    It isn't just about drawing the line on Russia or China, but we are always drawing lines and usually follow it up with aggressive political solutions like sanctions or wars. We had to draw the line on communism, in Korea and then Vietnam. We had to draw the line on someone having WMD. We have to draw a line with Iran over nukes. We must draw a line with Syria over chemical warfare, we have to do something when the Russians place bounties on American military personnel. Sometimes we make up the line. This country is always drawing lines, right or wrong, with other countries.

    It gets tiresome to those who aren't into drawing lines that might lead to armed confrontation or raising hostility, especially with our habit of getting into armed conflicts or supporting sometimes the worst people to be our proxies forces.
    Last edited by WES445; 06-17-2021 at 01:19 PM.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  9. #339
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    an old episode of NCIS had some counterfeit money involved...the counterfeiters had made a mistake on their bills, one that fits this country more with each passing day- Untied States of America
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Preferably not allow Russia to rebuild the Soviet Union, and run roughshot over the baltics again. We can be adversaries of China and Russia without being mortal enemies.

    But we can't stand there like an *******, as Russia hacks are nuclear defense systems, intervenes in our elections, and send drones to spy on our military sites.

    Like at some point you got to draw a line. I don't think China plans on being anywhere near as aggressive as Russia, and wants to win through public approval, and investing in other nations (such as the infrastructure they're building in Africa).

    It's hard to tell what happened at the summit and what kind of promises were made. But one thing to know about Biden, is this is his expertise. The man has been working on foreign policy decisions, particularly in regards to the baltics since the 70's. He knows these regions as well as anyone.

    And so far the Russia propaganda machine seems to be pushing out praise for Biden. So whatever was agreed upon, tensions seem much more at ease as of now.
    Russia isn't trying to build the Soviet Union again. And of course China isn't as aggressive; their imperialism isn't terribly similar to our militaristic version.

    I'm asking what the line is you want to draw.

    The last sentence is great. I hope those tensions continue to be eased!!! I hope you take note too at who is saying "Biden wasn't tough enough" right now. And here's a Jacobin that I just read that I thought was solid. You might not hate it!

    https://jacobinmag.com/2021/06/joe-b...vladimir-putin

    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It's sort of like if the nerd buys protection from a bully and starts paper at other people at the table. The bully is complicit in the crime even if he's not doing them himself. I agree with you that we should shore up our defenses, but one thing to know about IT is that defense is very hard to do and has to be done right 100% of the time. Whereas offense is very easy and only has to be successful 1 time out of a million. Honestly I don't know how you improve the defense without getting rid of people. If I ran a company with 100,000 employees; I could send an email asking for everyone to send me their password and I would get responses from an incredibly uncomfortable amount of people. Picture your parents/grandparents who put passwords on their sticky notes on their computer monitor. They will be the ones who send their password when just asked for it.
    We bully lots of countries far worse than Russia bullies us. Would you be OK with any of them retaliating militarily against us? No. Of course not. All I'm saying is I don't think we need to promote even more nationalistic fervor in this country. I don't have the answers. I know dick-all about cyber security. But I know that I'd rather have a President that is comfortable with trying to do business and improve relations with the other super powers than one who feels the need to be an antagonistic strongman. I think mostly Biden did that in this summit. (EDIT: to clarify, he did the former (GOOD) not the latter (leave that to the right-wing war hawks!).

    What do you think we should do? I'm gathering you don't think defense is enough.


    -----------

    I do wish that someday we progress past electing Presidents who aren't embarrassed to say this with a straight face to the world:

    "How would it be if the United States were viewed by the rest of the world as interfering with the elections directly of other countries and everybody knew it? What would it be like if we engaged in activities that he engaged in? It diminishes the standing of a country."

    Yeah dude. Imagine if Russia had the CIA!

    It would be nice if the benevolence of our foreign policy was led with it's actions and not our words. Because that quote is FNK-level hypocrisy.
    Last edited by ManRam; 06-17-2021 at 02:06 PM.
    HELLO

  11. #341
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    There you go. We often judge others for things we have done ourselves. Study CIA activities in South America, or our history in our Iran.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Russia isn't trying to build the Soviet Union again. And of course China isn't as aggressive; their imperialism isn't terribly similar to our militaristic version.

    I'm asking what the line is you want to draw.

    The last sentence is great. I hope those tensions continue to be eased!!! I hope you take note too at who is saying "Biden wasn't tough enough" right now. And here's a Jacobin that I just read that I thought was solid. You might not hate it!

    https://jacobinmag.com/2021/06/joe-b...vladimir-putin



    We bully lots of countries far worse than Russia bullies us. Would you be OK with any of them retaliating militarily against us? No. Of course not. All I'm saying is I don't think we need to promote even more nationalistic fervor in this country. I don't have the answers. I know dick-all about cyber security. But I know that I'd rather have a President that is comfortable with trying to do business and improve relations with the other super powers than one who feels the need to be an antagonistic strongman. I think mostly Biden did that in this summit. (EDIT: to clarify, he did the former (GOOD) not the latter (leave that to the right-wing war hawks!).

    What do you think we should do? I'm gathering you don't think defense is enough.


    -----------

    I do wish that someday we progress past electing Presidents who aren't embarrassed to say this with a straight face to the world:

    "How would it be if the United States were viewed by the rest of the world as interfering with the elections directly of other countries and everybody knew it? What would it be like if we engaged in activities that he engaged in? It diminishes the standing of a country."

    Yeah dude. Imagine if Russia had the CIA!

    It would be nice if the benevolence of our foreign policy was led with it's actions and not our words. Because that quote is FNK-level hypocrisy.
    I'm very conflicted on this. Because I absolutely don't want to attack and escalate things but I also don't think we can sit back and enable Russia to allow these actors to continue. Because we know these hackers fear the Russian government. They have protocols built into their attack plans to ensure they don't ever attack anything Russian. They have immediate kills if they detect certain languages in the systems they infiltrate. If the main language on the computer is Russian, it stops then and there. No further action is taken because they know Putin and Russia's government will end them permanently.

    I think that we need to pass legislation that enables companies that are the victims of cyber attacks from within Russia to hold their government financially accountable. After all, they are indirectly responsible and a responsible (in the respect of doing the right thing) government would take steps to block bad actors in their own borders. Therefore I would assign them guilt something akin to aiding and abetting. Russia's government doesn't have a lot of cash. They can't afford to be making such payouts. Despite their massive size, their economy is tiny.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Don't do that. Everyone knew he had dementia, his inner circle, and his wife was protective of him when reporters start asking questions. Maybe you were too young then to pick up on it.
    I was born in the last year if his admin, I wouldn't have known about it

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Russia isn't trying to build the Soviet Union again. And of course China isn't as aggressive; their imperialism isn't terribly similar to our militaristic version.

    I'm asking what the line is you want to draw.

    The last sentence is great. I hope those tensions continue to be eased!!! I hope you take note too at who is saying "Biden wasn't tough enough" right now. And here's a Jacobin that I just read that I thought was solid. You might not hate it!

    https://jacobinmag.com/2021/06/joe-b...vladimir-putin



    We bully lots of countries far worse than Russia bullies us. Would you be OK with any of them retaliating militarily against us? No. Of course not. All I'm saying is I don't think we need to promote even more nationalistic fervor in this country. I don't have the answers. I know dick-all about cyber security. But I know that I'd rather have a President that is comfortable with trying to do business and improve relations with the other super powers than one who feels the need to be an antagonistic strongman. I think mostly Biden did that in this summit. (EDIT: to clarify, he did the former (GOOD) not the latter (leave that to the right-wing war hawks!).

    What do you think we should do? I'm gathering you don't think defense is enough.


    -----------

    I do wish that someday we progress past electing Presidents who aren't embarrassed to say this with a straight face to the world:

    "How would it be if the United States were viewed by the rest of the world as interfering with the elections directly of other countries and everybody knew it? What would it be like if we engaged in activities that he engaged in? It diminishes the standing of a country."

    Yeah dude. Imagine if Russia had the CIA!

    It would be nice if the benevolence of our foreign policy was led with it's actions and not our words. Because that quote is FNK-level hypocrisy.

    I just don't look at it that way. We aren't anywhere near the point where we say "if you do this, it's all out war". But Russia has some tough sanctions on them right now, and we need to give them a route in which they can have the sanctions lifted. And they need to understand if they meddle in elections again, they will be completely ostracized from the western world economically.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I just don't look at it that way. We aren't anywhere near the point where we say "if you do this, it's all out war". But Russia has some tough sanctions on them right now, and we need to give them a route in which they can have the sanctions lifted. And they need to understand if they meddle in elections again, they will be completely ostracized from the western world economically.
    This is largely already the case and they are still doing it.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

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