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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    We don't know after four decades of siphoning money to the top. Can you clear up our ignorances and show how lower taxes on the rich and corporations have helped the common man besides low wages? I don't see the benefit of this policy during this time, forty years, in Chicago or rural areas. Poverty rates have gone up, the middle class is shrinking, and college graduates are leaving schools will a massive educational debt. The kids are experiencing a more stressful time to establish themselves more than when we were kids were we could literally work our way through college and graduate debt-free.
    Everything of which you are saying is probably true. I have no reason not to believe what you say.

    The problem is is that you are taking societal failures and blaming it on the rich. People need to take responsibility for themselves and not keep blamng others for their failures.

    Low wages………you get what you are worth. How much can you pay a hamburger flipper??? $15 an hour??? Great……McDonalds is already automating the $15 an hour out of work.

    Poverty Rates have gone up………1. don't have children that you cannot afford 2. get your self educated (education is free in the US [you do know that, right]), 3. maintain a strong family unit

    College grads leaving school with massive educational debt……stop wasting time on stupid degrees that you will have to pay for and never use; get skills that people actually want

    More stressful time to establish yourself……make yourself employable, ask the simple quesation……would you hire you???

    Are things different now??? YES. Are things more difficult now??? YES.

    Maybe we should………

    lean on our educators to, you now, actually educate (the US education results is laughable compared to other countries). For a country of our size and finances

    lean on our governments, on all levels, to create and maintain decent low income housing……and maintain the standards. Make the tenants maintain the standards.

    lean on all of our "activists" to convince their peoples to amend their ways to help them become more successful.

    And the bolded……again……where does this "siphoned" $$$ go??? They do not sit on it. Whatever the spend it on creates or supports JOBS. and more JOBS. Plain and simple.

    Jobs are the key……and when any congressional talks their constituents out of 20,000 jobs - then that is where you should be leveling your contempt at. Not the rich. When a high ranking politician walks into his office on day one and, with a simple signature, wipes out a pipeline construction costing thousands of jobs because his "handlers" didn't like his predecessor then that is where you should be leveling your contempt at. Not the rich.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    You are giving me stats that aren't seen in everyday life. I ask how has siphoning money to the top have made the average man's life better. Those stats mean nothing if people are still getting poor and having trouble making ends meet or college students being saddle with crushing debt once they left school. This hasn't always been the case. It changed during Reagan's administration, I was present to witness it, and steadily gotten worse over the years. You know, the beginning of the cut government expenditures and lower taxes republican craze.
    How can they mean nothing to you. When the top 10% of wage warners pay 70% of the taxes………that means something pretty clear to me.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    How can they mean nothing to you. When the top 10% of wage warners pay 70% of the taxes………that means something pretty clear to me.
    and 'they make way too much money' isn't it?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    How can they mean nothing to you. When the top 10% of wage warners pay 70% of the taxes………that means something pretty clear to me.
    BFD. The top 10% also collect 4 times the total wages of the bottom 50%. And this accounts only for wages, not total wealth.

    My favorite part here is that you glorify and promote a system that advances the widening of income gap, and then you go on to vilify those people (the bottom 50%) who as a result do not pay taxes — because they are so poor.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    and 'they make way too much money' isn't it?
    Key word here is "make."

    They "make" money. They do not "get" money. Bug difference. Try thinking about it.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Everything of which you are saying is probably true. I have no reason not to believe what you say.

    The problem is is that you are taking societal failures and blaming it on the rich. People need to take responsibility for themselves and not keep blamng others for their failures.
    Yeah, poor people control the economic engine that runs this country. I remember like it was just yesterday, how we decided to ship our good-paying jobs overseas. It was us, who allow drugs to come in over the border into our neighborhood. That idea came from burger flipping Juan. I actively, with others in my neighborhood, cut our local school funding and mental health services. The best one let, and I wish I could take credit for it, we told the government to wage the drug war on our streets and ignore the rampant usage of drugs on our college campus and the cocaine usages of the rich and white folks. We just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

    Low wages………you get what you are worth. How much can you pay a hamburger flipper??? $15 an hour??? Great……McDonalds is already automating the $15 an hour out of work.
    Well we did, personally, shipped those good jobs overseas. You know the jobs that high school educated folks could obtain to have a good life. You are right, with automation coming around the corners even the low-wage jobs will be gone. Guess we just starve to death and not cause a ruckus about it.. The death of the American workers, we knew them well.

    Poverty Rates have gone up………1. don't have children that you cannot afford 2. get your self educated (education is free in the US [you do know that, right]), 3. maintain a strong family unit
    The national birthrate, like in other westernized country, is dropping. People aren't having kids at the rate they did during the boom days of economical prosperity that we had after WW II. the baby boomers. The younger generation is holding off having children. But still, to just say FU we aren't going to educate those kids or see to their welfare will only hurt society as a whole. Would you rather ignore these kids and let them fall to crime and drug usage or educate them to be useful citizens?

    College grads leaving school with massive educational debt……stop wasting time on stupid degrees that you will have to pay for and never use; get skills that people actually want
    You honestly think the engineer and doctors, which eat up more time in the educational system to achieve, who graduate don't have a high student debt loan that takes ten times longer to pay off than their parent and grandparent did?

    More stressful time to establish yourself……make yourself employable, ask the simple quesation……would you hire you???

    Are things different now??? YES. Are things more difficult now??? YES.

    Maybe we should………

    lean on our educators to, you now, actually educate (the US education results is laughable compared to other countries). For a country of our size and finances
    and you just got through criticizing the poor for not having a good education and now you blaming the system as we have. Bi-polar much?

    lean on our governments, on all levels, to create and maintain decent low income housing……and maintain the standards. Make the tenants maintain the standards.
    We did when LBJ engage his programs which were cut and abolish during the Reagan administration, as well as housing for the homeless. Really good job training in carpenter, auto mechanic, plumbing, and other train craft for inner-city and rural kids were also cut in the name of smaller government and cutting corporate taxes. There are a couple of old geezers on my block who build good lives off those programs. Yeah, us poor people beg him to do that as well.

    lean on all of our "activists" to convince their peoples to amend their ways to help them become more successful.
    HAHAHHAHHAHHAHHHAHHHAHAHHHAHAH, that is funny. The same thing was said about MLK instead of rousing up their "good negro" populations, he should get them to maintain the peace. You really don't realize you doing the same song and dance we heard for generations.
    And the bolded……again……where does this "siphoned" $$$ go??? They do not sit on it. Whatever the spend it on creates or supports JOBS. and more JOBS. Plain and simple.
    You do know when we moved from being a manufacturing giant to a service-related economy the wages dropped. So the jobs created won't have the same bang for the buck or livable wages. Poor people really f up when we send those high-paying jobs overseas. When was the last time poor people raised the minimum wages?

    Jobs are the key……and when any congressional talks their constituents out of 20,000 jobs - then that is where you should be leveling your contempt at. Not the rich. When a high ranking politician walks into his office on day one and, with a simple signature, wipes out a pipeline construction costing thousands of jobs because his "handlers" didn't like his predecessor then that is where you should be leveling your contempt at. Not the rich.
    What pipeline, the one that they wanted to run through native lands because the white folks didn't want it in their neighborhood? A pipeline system that is known to have frequent spillages that pollute their water system? Why on earth would the protesters at Standing Rock not want a pipeline running thru their land. Silly people and we even use attack dogs and water hoses on them to help them stop their foolishness.

    If that pipeline had gone thru, those jobs would have diminished greatly after its construction. You are going by what the pipeline owner says the job numbers would have been. It is a common practice to inflate the job numbers to get what they want. Sears pull that scam in Chicago decades ago, they promise a lot of jobs for special tax rates and got the tax rate and we got very few jobs. Way less than promised. It was the same poly that AOC complain about a year ago in NYC.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    BFD. The top 10% also collect 4 times the total wages of the bottom 50%. And this accounts only for wages, not total wealth.

    My favorite part here is that you glorify and promote a system that advances the widening of income gap, and then you go on to vilify those people (the bottom 50%) who as a result do not pay taxes — because they are so poor.
    My favorite part here is that you think I glorify or vilify anyone.I don't.

    You miss the point (not the first time).

    Everything in the economy starts with jobs. You need a job. You really do. It is up to the individual to make themselves employable.

    We have kids coming out of HS that can't do basic arithmetic or hold a conversation……then we give them student loans to learn useless material. And we keep electing the school boards that let this happen. (Some school board just met to take away holiday names……dumb kids can't read but at least they won't be offended by Memorial Day……this is what we elect). And no one at the college level tells these kids how much $$$ they are wasting on ridiculous courses.

    You can't get a dog from the pound without an interview and proof that you can take care of it……but 3-4-5 kids while having no job or a papa present -no prob with that. Free housing - here you go. Need food - try this card.

    Some of these people have no need to get a job to survive so why should they??? The problem perpetuates. And then they piss and moan at others sitting in a restaurant they can't afford.

    It will never get better until some of these groups want to get better.

    But, yeah, complain about the rich……the ones creating jobs that he poor refuses to take.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Yeah, poor people control the economic engine that runs this country. I remember like it was just yesterday, how we decided to ship our good-paying jobs overseas. It was us, who allow drugs to come in over the border into our neighborhood. That idea came from burger flipping Juan. I actively, with others in my neighborhood, cut our local school funding and mental health services. The best one let, and I wish I could take credit for it, we told the government to wage the drug war on our streets and ignore the rampant usage of drugs on our college campus and the cocaine usages of the rich and white folks. We just keep shooting ourselves in the foot. Well we did, personally, shipped those good jobs overseas. You know the jobs that high school educated folks could obtain to have a good life. You are right, with automation coming around the corners even the low-wage jobs will be gone. Guess we just starve to death and not cause a ruckus about it.. The death of the American workers, we knew them well. The national birthrate, like in other westernized country, is dropping. People aren't having kids at the rate they did during the boom days of economical prosperity that we had after WW II. the baby boomers. The younger generation is holding off having children. But still, to just say FU we aren't going to educate those kids or see to their welfare will only hurt society as a whole. Would you rather ignore these kids and let them fall to crime and drug usage or educate them to be useful citizens? You honestly think the engineer and doctors, which eat up more time in the educational system to achieve, who graduate don't have a high student debt loan that takes ten times longer to pay off than their parent and grandparent did? and you just got through criticizing the poor for not having a good education and now you blaming the system as we have. Bi-polar much? We did when LBJ engage his programs which were cut and abolish during the Reagan administration, as well as housing for the homeless. Really good job training in carpenter, auto mechanic, plumbing, and other train craft for inner-city and rural kids were also cut in the name of smaller government and cutting corporate taxes. There are a couple of old geezers on my block who build good lives off those programs. Yeah, us poor people beg him to do that as well. HAHAHHAHHAHHAHHHAHHHAHAHHHAHAH, that is funny. The same thing was said about MLK instead of rousing up their "good negro" populations, he should get them to maintain the peace. You really don't realize you doing the same song and dance we heard for generations. You do know when we moved from being a manufacturing giant to a service-related economy the wages dropped. So the jobs created won't have the same bang for the buck or livable wages. Poor people really f up when we send those high-paying jobs overseas. When was the last time poor people raised the minimum wages? What pipeline, the one that they wanted to run through native lands because the white folks didn't want it in their neighborhood? A pipeline system that is known to have frequent spillages that pollute their water system? Why on earth would the protesters at Standing Rock not want a pipeline running thru their land. Silly people and we even use attack dogs and water hoses on them to help them stop their foolishness.

    If that pipeline had gone thru, those jobs would have diminished greatly after its construction. You are going by what the pipeline owner says the job numbers would have been. It is a common practice to inflate the job numbers to get what they want. Sears pull that scam in Chicago decades ago, they promise a lot of jobs for special tax rates and got the tax rate and we got very few jobs. Way less than promised. It was the same poly that AOC complain about a year ago in NYC.
    Explain, then, why so many make it out of poverty while others do not??? Is it just dumb luck???

    Explain why our education level is so low compared to similar countries???? (You do know that education is free in this country, don't you.) Any idea as to why this is??? I can't think of a bigger foundation to getting a job than education. Can you???

    Do you really think manufacturers want to send jobs overseas??? Unions, government programs, taxes etc. all make it expensive to do business here. And it is going to get worse.

    And, again, why do so many people want to come here??? If it is so bad, how dumb must those at the southern border be to lie, cheat and steal to get here???

    We're a capitalist cuntry……that's jusyt how it is. You can be a part if it and come along for the ride and prosper or sit on the sidelines and piss and moan. Your choice.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Key word here is "make."

    They "make" money. They do not "get" money. Bug difference. Try thinking about it.
    Sluggo, please don't talk to me like you don't think I know business or finances. I've spent my entire career in some form of business management/accounting.

    There are too many people 'getting' money because their are too few people putting far too much in their own bank accounts.

    Are you under the mistaken impression that wealthy people have 'made' all their money?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling the work many did to become successful nor am I begrudging them being able to enjoy it. But at some point they stopped 'making' a lot of their money and started just 'getting' it via the snowball effects of investments or just plain interest.

    The current tax system greatly benefits people who can move things around via investments, etc, and shielding income from being taxed. To a point, I have no problem with that, it's part of what keeps things going.

    However, here's the deal- why should a decreasing tax base in median ranges of income be put under more and more pressure to pay for the programs for low income people while high income people continually get more and more ways to not contribute the same percentages?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Explain, then, why so many make it out of poverty while others do not??? Is it just dumb luck???
    Government research has to show the middle class is shrinking and upward mobility from poverty is at its lowest point. If you are just going to blow smoke up my arse, we need to end this. Have a good day, dude.

    Explain why our education level is so low compared to similar countries???? (You do know that education is free in this country, don't you.) Any idea as to why this is??? I can't think of a bigger foundation to getting a job than education. Can you???

    Do you really think manufacturers want to send jobs overseas??? Unions, government programs, taxes etc. all make it expensive to do business here. And it is going to get worse.

    And, again, why do so many people want to come here??? If it is so bad, how dumb must those at the southern border be to lie, cheat and steal to get here???

    We're a capitalist cuntry……that's jusyt how it is. You can be a part if it and come along for the ride and prosper or sit on the sidelines and piss and moan. Your choice.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    My favorite part here is that you think I glorify or vilify anyone.I don't.

    You miss the point (not the first time).

    Everything in the economy starts with jobs. You need a job. You really do. It is up to the individual to make themselves employable.

    We have kids coming out of HS that can't do basic arithmetic or hold a conversation……then we give them student loans to learn useless material. And we keep electing the school boards that let this happen. (Some school board just met to take away holiday names……dumb kids can't read but at least they won't be offended by Memorial Day……this is what we elect). And no one at the college level tells these kids how much $$$ they are wasting on ridiculous courses.

    You can't get a dog from the pound without an interview and proof that you can take care of it……but 3-4-5 kids while having no job or a papa present -no prob with that. Free housing - here you go. Need food - try this card.

    Some of these people have no need to get a job to survive so why should they??? The problem perpetuates. And then they piss and moan at others sitting in a restaurant they can't afford.

    It will never get better until some of these groups want to get better.

    But, yeah, complain about the rich……the ones creating jobs that he poor refuses to take.
    Certainly, the ideal would be that fewer people need government assistance to survive. Increasing the number and amount of this assistance has been a significant part of the Dem platform I've never liked. The IDEAL would be that they're employed or otherwise earning enough they don't need government assistance. Where you and I differ, apparently, is the role the wealthy should play in making that happen, starting with not drawing more people INTO assistance with things like a higher tax burden.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #72
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    Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Everything of which you are saying is probably true. I have no reason not to believe what you say.

    The problem is is that you are taking societal failures and blaming it on the rich. People need to take responsibility for themselves and not keep blamng others for their failures.

    Low wages………you get what you are worth. How much can you pay a hamburger flipper??? $15 an hour??? Great……McDonalds is already automating the $15 an hour out of work.

    Poverty Rates have gone up………1. don't have children that you cannot afford 2. get your self educated (education is free in the US [you do know that, right]), 3. maintain a strong family unit

    College grads leaving school with massive educational debt……stop wasting time on stupid degrees that you will have to pay for and never use; get skills that people actually want

    More stressful time to establish yourself……make yourself employable, ask the simple quesation……would you hire you???

    Are things different now??? YES. Are things more difficult now??? YES.

    Maybe we should………

    lean on our educators to, you now, actually educate (the US education results is laughable compared to other countries). For a country of our size and finances

    lean on our governments, on all levels, to create and maintain decent low income housing……and maintain the standards. Make the tenants maintain the standards.

    lean on all of our "activists" to convince their peoples to amend their ways to help them become more successful.

    And the bolded……again……where does this "siphoned" $$$ go??? They do not sit on it. Whatever the spend it on creates or supports JOBS. and more JOBS. Plain and simple.

    Jobs are the key……and when any congressional talks their constituents out of 20,000 jobs - then that is where you should be leveling your contempt at. Not the rich. When a high ranking politician walks into his office on day one and, with a simple signature, wipes out a pipeline construction costing thousands of jobs because his "handlers" didn't like his predecessor then that is where you should be leveling your contempt at. Not the rich.
    So “low wages.... you get what you are worth” but now that everyone has quit those low wages because of how low they are suddenly you’re like “force them to go back to work”.

    You are so pro-rich and anti-everyone else it’s disgusting

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Sluggo, please don't talk to me like you don't think I know business or finances. I've spent my entire career in some form of business management/accounting.

    There are too many people 'getting' money because their are too few people putting far too much in their own bank accounts.

    Are you under the mistaken impression that wealthy people have 'made' all their money?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling the work many did to become successful nor am I begrudging them being able to enjoy it. But at some point they stopped 'making' a lot of their money and started just 'getting' it via the snowball effects of investments or just plain interest.

    The current tax system greatly benefits people who can move things around via investments, etc, and shielding income from being taxed. To a point, I have no problem with that, it's part of what keeps things going.

    However, here's the deal- why should a decreasing tax base in median ranges of income be put under more and more pressure to pay for the programs for low income people while high income people continually get more and more ways to not contribute the same percentages?
    Investments is "making" $$$.

    If ypu want to tighten up or eliminate loopholes, I am fine with that. I have no problem with eliminating unfair loopholes. I am not in favor of simply taxing high earners.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Government research has to show the middle class is shrinking and upward mobility from poverty is at its lowest point. If you are just going to blow smoke up my arse, we need to end this. Have a good day, dude.
    I don't doubt that at all. Makes it all the more important to get your *** in gear and get moving.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Certainly, the ideal would be that fewer people need government assistance to survive. Increasing the number and amount of this assistance has been a significant part of the Dem platform I've never liked. The IDEAL would be that they're employed or otherwise earning enough they don't need government assistance. Where you and I differ, apparently, is the role the wealthy should play in making that happen, starting with not drawing more people INTO assistance with things like a higher tax burden.
    There are millions of people out there that, if given a job, they would choose to stay at home and just get paid benefits.

    Millions.

    That is what has to stop.

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