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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Didn't hurts basically get worse with every start regarding passing?
    Yes

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'm guessing they had biases when making this list considering what it says for Cam:



    So Cam averaged 10 YPA, 62%, and wasn't even the worst passer rating on 5 step drops, but he gets the label of worst 5 step drop throws because of a 1:4 TD:INT stat? Hell, I wonder if they even watched the INTs to see what occurred since its highly possible some of those aren't on him and/or occurred in bulk during the DEN/SF weeks after he had COVID.
    I highly doubt they watched every 5 step drop. It is probably just a combination of stats and passer rating.

    It probably can be used as a baseline look but not the end all be all, that being said if you are on this list you probably weren't very good at that specific category.

    I love Cam too, but he is not the guy he once was.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    I highly doubt they watched every 5 step drop. It is probably just a combination of stats and passer rating.

    It probably can be used as a baseline look but not the end all be all, that being said if you are on this list you probably weren't very good at that specific category.

    I love Cam too, but he is not the guy he once was.
    Regardless of what Cam 'is', it's pretty clear he wasn't the worst QB on 5 step drops so it makes me question the entire judgement of the article.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Regardless of what Cam 'is', it's pretty clear he wasn't the worst QB on 5 step drops so it makes me question the entire judgement of the article.
    He may not be the worst, but he was one of the worst when combining passer rating + stats. 4 qbs had a lower passer rating but probably without the INTs.

    Im not saying take it as gospel, but its a good indicator that he was in the bottom tier when taking 5 step drops.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    He may not be the worst, but he was one of the worst when combining passer rating + stats. 4 qbs had a lower passer rating but probably without the INTs.

    Im not saying take it as gospel, but its a good indicator that he was in the bottom tier when taking 5 step drops.
    I love how passer rating suddenly becomes an infallible stat for MBC when it says Cam is the 4th/5th worst instead of the overall worst.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    He may not be the worst, but he was one of the worst when combining passer rating + stats. 4 qbs had a lower passer rating but probably without the INTs.

    Im not saying take it as gospel, but its a good indicator that he was in the bottom tier when taking 5 step drops.
    But it doesn't tell us much of anything except he had 4 INTs. It doesn't tell us what his passer rating was or where it ranked. Here's his passer rating and what it would look like as INTs get deducted:

    Actual (4): 77.51
    3 INTs: 82.8
    2 INTs: 88.1
    1 INT: 93.3
    0 INT: 98.1

    His actual passer rating on 5 step drops probably isn't close to bottom. His raw stats are actually fine (comp%, AYA), just the INTs make it look worse, so like I said, a wrong route or botched block pickup or just outlier game could've been the difference between a below average 77 passer rating and a 90ish. It's lazy analysis if Cam was abysmal in one game but fine in the others. All I'm saying is they clearly mentioned 5 other QBs who must have had worse passer ratings but decided that 4 INTs was the deciding factor, so how do I know they didn't make similar decisions for Wentz?

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    I love how passer rating suddenly becomes an infallible stat for MBC when it says Cam is the 4th/5th worst instead of the overall worst.
    I've never and am not currently arguing that passer rating is infallible. It's honestly trash in the modern game where most teams are running high efficiency offenses with easy quick passes that inflate passer rating and YPA, both of which inflate passer rating.

    I'm simply pointing out that by their own admission his passer rating wasn't the worst and they're just judging him on 4 plays to justify declaring him 'worst'.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I've never and am not currently arguing that passer rating is infallible. It's honestly trash in the modern game where most teams are running high efficiency offenses with easy quick passes that inflate passer rating and YPA, both of which inflate passer rating.

    I'm simply pointing out that by their own admission his passer rating wasn't the worst and they're just judging him on 4 plays to justify declaring him 'worst'.
    If you have:

    QB1: 90 rating, 0 INTs
    QB2: 95 rating, 4 INTs

    It's common sense to take the slightly 'worse' QB who protects the ball. Even if they complete 2-3 fewer passes or get 10-20 fewer yards overall on 5 step drops, they won't put points up on the scoreboard for the other team like the INT machine will.

    Otherwise 5k 30-30 Jameis Winston would be the MVP.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    If you have:

    QB1: 90 rating, 0 INTs
    QB2: 95 rating, 4 INTs

    It's common sense to take the slightly 'worse' QB who protects the ball. Even if they complete 2-3 fewer passes or get 10-20 fewer yards overall on 5 step drops, they won't put points up on the scoreboard for the other team like the INT machine will.

    Otherwise 5k 30-30 Jameis Winston would be the MVP.
    INTs are already factored into passer rating though. I guess they could decide INTs are so much worse so they change the weight and count them double, but then they should probably do that across the board, which might turn a few of the Wentz/Hurts categories into just Wentz categories.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    INTs are already factored into passer rating though. I guess they could decide INTs are so much worse so they change the weight and count them double, but then they should probably do that across the board, which might turn a few of the Wentz/Hurts categories into just Wentz categories.
    I'm aware INTs are already included, however, their value in the passing rating stat is based on averages of larger sets of data. When we talk about a specific dropback type within a single season, the stats get niche enough that more extreme cases become important.

    That was why I referenced Winston's season where he chucked a lot of good passes, but also 30 INTs. Those INTs may be more detrimental than a passing rating formula would suggest, because the stat doesn't assume outliers like that exist. His passer rating was 84.3 that season, a little higher than Cam's 82.9 in 2020.



    Maybe a better fit for PSD...

    Drew Lock's passer rating 75.4
    Carson Wentz's passer rating 72.8

    And yet many here would say Wentz is better than Lock. They would likely say Lock is always bad, while Wentz is sometimes great and sometimes terrible, averaging out to bad. Same deal to say Cam was the worst 5 step drop QB, even if a couple other QBs had slightly worse stats.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    I'm aware INTs are already included, however, their value in the passing rating stat is based on averages of larger sets of data. When we talk about a specific dropback type within a single season, the stats get niche enough that more extreme cases become important.

    That was why I referenced Winston's season where he chucked a lot of good passes, but also 30 INTs. Those INTs may be more detrimental than a passing rating formula would suggest, because the stat doesn't assume outliers like that exist. His passer rating was 84.3 that season, a little higher than Cam's 82.9 in 2020.



    Maybe a better fit for PSD...

    Drew Lock's passer rating 75.4
    Carson Wentz's passer rating 72.8

    And yet many here would say Wentz is better than Lock. They would likely say Lock is always bad, while Wentz is sometimes great and sometimes terrible, averaging out to bad. Same deal to say Cam was the worst 5 step drop QB, even if a couple other QBs had slightly worse stats.
    Yeah, like I said, then they should use a modified passer rating and apply it across the board, else it looks like they're just cherry-picking.

  12. #207
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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    That last picture... looks like not wanting competition runs in the family.


  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    That last picture... looks like not wanting competition runs in the family.

    Lol

  15. #210
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    Talking bad about the guys kid, a new low.

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