Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Ethanol

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    38,240

    Ethanol

    Porsche is advertising that they are making a carbon neutral car that runs on synthetic fuel, and it made me look into ethanol fuel additive that is mandated as a percentage of gasoline purchasable in many states.

    Boy what a political cash cow cluster-f that has been.

    Ethanol has caused thousands of cars to burn to the ground, millions of small engine failures, has lower energy density than gasoline (thus meaning mileage per gallon goes down so emissions improvements are negligible), and costs more energy to produce and deliver than it containers with about a 22% loss by volume.

    Add to that that the ethanol industry is pushing to get 20% of US gasoline to be from ethanol which would require almost 18% of all food producing land in the US be growing corn that is not for food.

    Add to THAT that corn being added to so much food and to animal feed is a net negative to human and animal health.

    It's just a great big screw job for the people and a boon to big industry.

    Just thought I'd let you know.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,111
    Every vehicle made in the US since 2001 can burn up to 15% ethanol without any difficulty. Older engines had difficulty, as it burns hotter, and therefore more completely. Ethanol can be produced from plant fibers, not just corn. Also, once the starch is extracted from corn, the rest is still edible by livestock. It takes none of the protein out of the corn, just starch.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,111
    Also, the corn that is used to make ethanol is not the corn that is canned or eaten as corn on the cob. It is what is called "field" corn, not "sweet" corn.
    This takes very little human consumable corn out of the market.
    Race cars have been running on alcohol for a long time.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    17,423
    Another thing that has always bothered me about ethanol is the fact that the energy GAIN from creating it is not very high. What I mean is, the energy it takes to create it isn't all that much less than the energy created- especially true if you factor in the reduced mileage in an ethynol blend.

    It may take little consumable corn out of the market, but it takes significant food-producing land out of the market. The problem is, take ethanol out of the market and thousands of farmers go under...unless it's replaced.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,111
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    It may take little consumable corn out of the market, but it takes significant food-producing land out of the market. The problem is, take ethanol out of the market and thousands of farmers go under...unless it's replaced.
    It doesn't take a significant amount of land "out of production", as livestock can still eat what is left over after the starch is extracted from corn.
    As to the reduction in fuel mileage, my car does better on 15% ethanol than on regular. I get an average of about 3 miles per gallon increase in economy, and the cost to fill is lower.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    9,564
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Another thing that has always bothered me about ethanol is the fact that the energy GAIN from creating it is not very high. What I mean is, the energy it takes to create it isn't all that much less than the energy created- especially true if you factor in the reduced mileage in an ethynol blend.

    It may take little consumable corn out of the market, but it takes significant food-producing land out of the market. The problem is, take ethanol out of the market and thousands of farmers go under...unless it's replaced.
    Good point. It has always been questionable as to whether the energy and pollution expended is more than offset by the energy and pollution gained.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    38,240
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Also, the corn that is used to make ethanol is not the corn that is canned or eaten as corn on the cob. It is what is called "field" corn, not "sweet" corn.
    This takes very little human consumable corn out of the market.
    Race cars have been running on alcohol for a long time.
    It uses land and resources that can be used to grow food to grow fuel instead.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    38,240
    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    It doesn't take a significant amount of land "out of production", as livestock can still eat what is left over after the starch is extracted from corn.
    As to the reduction in fuel mileage, my car does better on 15% ethanol than on regular. I get an average of about 3 miles per gallon increase in economy, and the cost to fill is lower.
    What year is your car? Very high compression engines can make better use of ethanol, but it's the exception not the rule. And if the government subsidies went away the cost per gallon would be considerably higher.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    38,240
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Another thing that has always bothered me about ethanol is the fact that the energy GAIN from creating it is not very high. What I mean is, the energy it takes to create it isn't all that much less than the energy created- especially true if you factor in the reduced mileage in an ethynol blend.

    It may take little consumable corn out of the market, but it takes significant food-producing land out of the market. The problem is, take ethanol out of the market and thousands of farmers go under...unless it's replaced.
    Some studies find that the energy GAIN is actually a net energy loss. Also it takes a lot of water to grow fuel and a lot of the US has a water shortage.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    6,111
    The production of ethanol used only the starch in the corn. The protein is still able to be fed to livestock. Ethanol really doesn't take land out of production for food. It simply utilizes part of the corn for fuel.
    And, by the way, my car is a 2013. It has seldom run on anything but ethanol blended fuel. It is not, however, able to use the higher grade, E-85 fuel. That would burn out the catalytic converter.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    8,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Porsche is advertising that they are making a carbon neutral car that runs on synthetic fuel, and it made me look into ethanol fuel additive that is mandated as a percentage of gasoline purchasable in many states.

    Boy what a political cash cow cluster-f that has been.

    Ethanol has caused thousands of cars to burn to the ground, millions of small engine failures, has lower energy density than gasoline (thus meaning mileage per gallon goes down so emissions improvements are negligible), and costs more energy to produce and deliver than it containers with about a 22% loss by volume.

    Add to that that the ethanol industry is pushing to get 20% of US gasoline to be from ethanol which would require almost 18% of all food producing land in the US be growing corn that is not for food.

    Add to THAT that corn being added to so much food and to animal feed is a net negative to human and animal health.

    It's just a great big screw job for the people and a boon to big industry.

    Just thought I'd let you know.
    You need to get out more.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •