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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    This is Wade's top 5: Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson and Shaquille O’Neal. Who the hell is putting AI in the top 5? I dont even know many that put Shaq top 5, but he belongs more than Kobe or AI. that list is ********.

    Who else? Its sad you bring this **** up but provide no sources, that is a trash *** list from Wade.
    The sources have been provided in the kobe vs lbj thread. Go read it. But it's not just Wade...KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Shaq, Barkley, Bird, MJ (just to name a few off the top of my head). There is a large list. The split is usually analysts pick LBJ and players and coaches pick kobe. I'm not arguing the merits of those lists here, but am noting that the idea that they arent on the same level is clearly silly and there are a decent amount (I think most) who would disagree with you in saying that they are not close.

    Here's another thought, maybe you have a very strong bias against kobe. You are on record after all saying that you thought he was a ball hog, a terrible teammate, overrated, and not a great person. Those were your words more or less. I've said LBJ is kind of a weenie at various points, but that's really the only negative thing I've said about him and never really attacked his character. Most on here have kobe in the top 7-10 or so, but you have him maybe in the top 20? I have LBJ in the top 3-6 (and kobe in that same range as well). I think my list is closer in line with that of others in here than apparently yours is and so maybe it's more you who is the Stan and the one showing more bias?
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-12-2021 at 02:00 PM.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    There's a massive list of their peers and all-time greats picking kobe over LBJ as well...including mutual teammates. Wade, who is LBJ's BFF used to pick Kobe up until about 3 years ago or so, to which he switched and said it's a tossup and you can't go wrong with either. Most elite defenders who guarded both say kobe was a lot more challenging to guard. I mean the list is pretty large, some of these guys have changed their position recently, but still say it's close. You're saying none of them know anything about basketball??? Maybe you're the one who doesnt know too much about basketball
    And I said that was going to happen. Many more will change their opinion in the next 3 years when LeBron starts breaking all the records for most points, games, etc.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    And I said that was going to happen. Many more will change their opinion in the next 3 years when LeBron starts breaking all the records for most points, games, etc.
    I don't doubt that and I think that you are right...if and when he wins another title as a superstar (I think it will probably happen next year barring another injury riddled season by the lakers) I will absolutely put him in the top 3 and right on the heels of Kareem. I will not say it's a tossup at that point, it will be LBJ firmly at #3

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    The sources have been provided in the kobe vs lbj thread. Go read it. But it's not just Wade...KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Shaq, Barkley, Bird, MJ (just to name a few off the top of my head). There is a large list. The split is usually analysts pick LBJ and players and coaches pick kobe. I'm not arguing the merits of those lists here, but am noting that the idea that they arent on the same level is clearly silly and there are a decent amount (I think most) who would disagree with you in saying that they are not close.

    Here's another thought, maybe you have a very strong bias against kobe. You are on record after all saying that you thought he was a ball hog, a terrible teammate, overrated, and not a great person. Those were your words more or less. I've said LBJ is kind of a weenie at various points, but that's really the only negative thing I've said about him and never really attacked his character. Most on here have kobe in the top 7-10 or so, but you have him maybe in the top 20? I have LBJ in the top 3-6 (and kobe in that same range as well). I think my list is closer in line with that of others in here than apparently yours is and so maybe it's more you who is the Stan and the one showing more bias?
    I have said the 10-15 was fine, but top 5 is absurd. Who am I a stan for? No one who played for my team is even in these conversations. MJ played for the Tarheels but he is the clear #1.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunuu View Post
    I have said the 10-15 was fine, but top 5 is absurd.
    You said maybe top 20 initially though and did say all of the things I noted and so you don't seem particularly objective about this...and again, my list isn't too different from most on here. The biggest difference is actually where I have LBJ, not where I have Kobe, because Kobe is about 2-3 spots away from the typical list on here and my list. It seems like your list might be considerably further off than that, especially if you're putting him at around the top end of the 10-15.

    Yeah I have LBJ a little further from the top than a lot on here (but not by that much though, especially now) and I also don't think LBJ is a bad person or anything, but you do seem to have some negative ideas about kobe so I'm just saying that it doesnt seem like you're too objective when it comes to the topic of kobe
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-12-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Gopher is in my top 5 homeboys on PSD. If anyone has a problem with him, they got a problem with me.
    Appreciated! I haven't been around as much especially since the redraft etc. games stopped but I currently have more free time and it's good to see some of the old posters still around. I almost quoted your contradictory responses early this thread to Ewing/Blams and said exactly lol (I believe you had a point that was that narratives are easy to create).

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You said maybe top 20 initially though and did say all of the things I noted and so you don't seem particularly objective about this...and again, my list isn't too different from most on here. The biggest difference is actually where I have LBJ, not where I have Kobe, because Kobe is about 2-3 spots away from the typical list on here and my list. It seems like your list might be considerably further off than that, especially if you're putting him at around the top end of the 10-15.

    Yeah I have LBJ a little further from the top than a lot on here (but not by that much though, especially now) and I also don't think LBJ is a bad person or anything, but you do seem to have some negative ideas about kobe so I'm just saying that it doesnt seem like you're too objective when it comes to the topic of kobe
    Nothing to be objective about. Was he a great player? Yes. Is he top 5 all time? No.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I don't doubt that and I think that you are right...if and when he wins another title as a superstar (I think it will probably happen next year barring another injury riddled season by the lakers) I will absolutely put him in the top 3 and right on the heels of Kareem. I will not say it's a tossup at that point, it will be LBJ firmly at #3
    At which point there will be some explanation for how firmly doesn’t mean above/superior/better than Kobe.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Appreciated! I haven't been around as much especially since the redraft etc. games stopped but I currently have more free time and it's good to see some of the old posters still around. I almost quoted your contradictory responses early this thread to Ewing/Blams and said exactly lol (I believe you had a point that was that narratives are easy to create).
    If people are interested I can start getting the ball rolling on an ATRD.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    At which point there will be some explanation for how firmly doesn’t mean above/superior/better than Kobe.
    Lol firmly means if you ask me who was the better player, yes it will be debatable, yes it will be close, but it will be LBJ. I said it last year that once LBJ won another title as a superstar he would be better than Kobe in my book. I thought there was a decent shot it would happen this year and I would've gone in the Kobe vs. LBJ thread and acknowledged it, but it didn't happen and even though some might not believe it, I'm not happy that it didn't, but that's how it goes sometimes. I think next year it will happen and you have my word and you can quote me saying this directly: If LBJ wins another title as a superstar, he will be better than Kobe in my book.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-12-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  11. #371
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    Ahhhh, I see big moves is back.. figured I'd see him posting after lebron got bounced in the first round... he's been gone since like the day after lebron hoised that Larry Obrien and Bill Russell last October

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    Ahhhh, I see big moves is back.. figured I'd see him posting after lebron got bounced in the first round... he's been gone since like the day after lebron hoised that Larry Obrien and Bill Russell last October
    Well there was nothing else to discuss at that point. The thread had runs its course and everyones' position was clear. To be clear though, I certainly did not come back to down talk LBJ, and have not done so on this thread. I simply took exception with how MJ's first retirement was being characterized and that was what I posted about...and then got baited into talking about other topics, but I'm definitely not in here to badmouth LBJ after the loss

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Appreciated! I haven't been around as much especially since the redraft etc. games stopped but I currently have more free time and it's good to see some of the old posters still around. I almost quoted your contradictory responses early this thread to Ewing/Blams and said exactly lol (I believe you had a point that was that narratives are easy to create).
    I didn't know if anyone peeped that out. But yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.
    The Baker has come. Believe the hype.


  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    I didn't know if anyone peeped that out. But yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.
    I got ya haha, it was actually my main/initial point as well before it got completely twisted (due to someone with their own made up narrative funny enough).

    It's a very simple yet important point.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 06-12-2021 at 07:20 PM.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    If people are interested I can start getting the ball rolling on an ATRD.
    I do currently have the time and would be down but I doubt there would be enough interest/activity...

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