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  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's a cop out because all moral and ethical judgements are opinions. It is fact that MJ's retirement occurred very closely in time to his father being murdered. It is fact that MJ said it had an impact on his decision to retire and that he lost the desire to play because of it. It is fact that people who lose loved ones, especially in a traumatic manner often have similar responses. Those are facts. It is my opinion that referencing this event as a way to down talk MJ, even if it's to demonstrate some other point, is classless given the sensitive nature of the topic. I've explained why already so won't do it again. For some reason you think it's not. I honestly don't know what to tell you. I think if we laid out both of our positions as to why it's over the top, and even removed the names involved and just described the scenario in an abstract manner, I think most would agree that the example is inappropriate. I could be wrong of course, but either way, the outcome would obviously be an opinion-based thing. We don't have objective moral and ethical facts that we can reference and say this is right and that is wrong. So yes, it is my opinion but then again I never said it's factually true that you all suck. It's when someone shares a position like that that it is opinion based. Apparently we disagree that this sort of thing is offensive, which I'm kind of surprised by but I guess it is what it is.
    It's not a cop out at all to show anyone can make a claim based on their opinion and attack others for it like you were doing. Yes you were trying to play the moral high ground in doing so. I can do the same game with KAT. KAT has said this pandemic has had an impact on him too.

    The point isn't that you can't have the opinion it is the extremes you have been going at others attacking them based solely on your opinion. The specifics aren't and never were important you just inserted them. IF you wanna get into it I don't remember it in his initial speech and I think in last dance he noted he told his dad in one of last conversations he wanted to transition and his dad said do it so it isn't like it wasn't possible without that incident either but this has never even remotely mattered other than you pushing your opinion as right and claiming moral high ground due to it in order to attack others even despite context shown repeatedly and you admitting to misreading and then the cheers just to do more later.

    That's the point, you are so focused on attacking others solely based on your opinion and despite the context... You fail to realize it was never even relevant to the point. It's not about if you are right or wrong even it is how absurd it is to act like this and why I noted no one else ever has. I could attack you for comments about KAT in the exact same way right now in a similar manner for attacking him as soft despite his family dying and taking major toll. I just am not here to troll in the same way.

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    It's not a cop out at all to show anyone can make a claim based on their opinion and attack others for it like you were doing. Yes you were trying to play the moral high ground in doing so. I can do the same game with KAT. KAT has said this pandemic has had an impact on him too.

    The point isn't that you can't have the opinion it is the extremes you have been going at others attacking them based solely on your opinion. The specifics aren't and never were important you just inserted them. IF you wanna get into it I don't remember it in his initial speech and I think in last dance he noted he told his dad in one of last conversations he wanted to transition and his dad said do it so it isn't like it wasn't possible without that incident either but this has never even remotely mattered other than you pushing your opinion as right and claiming moral high ground due to it in order to attack others even despite context shown repeatedly and you admitting to misreading and then the cheers just to do more later.

    That's the point, you are so focused on attacking others solely based on your opinion and despite the context... You fail to realize it was never even relevant to the point. It's not about if you are right or wrong even it is how absurd it is to act like this and why I noted no one else ever has. I could attack you for comments about KAT in the exact same way right now in a similar manner for attacking him as soft despite his family dying and taking major toll. I just am not here to troll in the same way.
    When did I say KAT was soft? I havent said anything at all even remotely close to KAT being soft lol. This entire forum is opinion based man as are the massive majority of forums.

  3. #318
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    LeBron James Quits

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    When did I say KAT was soft? I havent said anything at all even remotely close to KAT being soft lol. This entire forum is opinion based man as are the massive majority of forums.
    You said his mom dying isnít related to him being soft when I noted if someone called him it this year. You say they are unrelated so itís different.

    Itís the same as having an opinion on if someone says mj and jumping to associating his dads death. I can say they are unrelated too. Itís just opinions itís the same thing.

    The issue isnít having an opinion. Itís ignoring common sense to push your opinion on others in a biased manner while attacking them as if your opinion alone gives you the moral high ground. You didnít have anything to say about my actual point it was all trying to attack based on your personal opinion on something unrelated.


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  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You said his mom dying isnít related to him being soft when I noted if someone called him it this year. You say they are unrelated so itís different.

    Itís the same as having an opinion on if someone says mj and jumping to associating his dads death. I can say they are unrelated too. Itís just opinions itís the same thing.

    The issue isnít having an opinion. Itís ignoring common sense to push your opinion on others in a biased manner while attacking them as if your opinion alone gives you the moral high ground. You didnít have anything to say about my actual point it was all trying to attack based on your personal opinion on something unrelated. Thatís what trolls do.


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    You misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying if someone was generally making the comment of him being soft then that would be different (e.g., if they're saying he's always been soft). I also said that if they specifically referenced his soft play this season then that would kind of still be classless.

    Common sense here is pretty straightforward (again this is opinion-based since there aren't factual common sense actions or ideas). Common sense says that a guy retiring after his father is tragically murdered and him stating that it led him to lose his desire to play that the two are related. Your actual point was as far as I can tell purposely vague and I read it the right way...which was that you were saying that those guys quit. It turns out that you were being sarcastic and not very clear because you said you wanted to troll people. I responded by saying that it wasnt cool and then stated once you clarified that it's still not cool. There is very little that is going to change that. I dont think you're getting it...the very act of stating the facts, which is the MJ retired to imply that he quit, even though you were using that to show that a narrative could be spun, is offensive, because it ignores the very obvious, common sense context of his father being murdered and it likely having a major impact on him. Using this to try to troll people as you noted is not cool...and so yes, you deserved to be called out on this point. Obviously that is based on my opinion. You apparently dont think so for some reason. There isnt really anything else to say. I think it was over the top and crummy and you don't, which leads me to form other also less flattering opinions of you which I'd rather not share out of politeness.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-10-2021 at 06:00 PM.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying if someone was generally making the comment of him being soft then that would be different (e.g., if they're saying he's always been soft). I also said that if they specifically referenced his soft play this season then that would kind of still be classless.

    Common sense here is pretty straightforward (again this is opinion-based since there aren't factual common sense actions or ideas). Common sense says that a guy retiring after his father is tragically murdered and him stating that it led him to lose his desire to play that the two are related. Your actual point was as far as I can tell purposely vague and I read it the right way...which was that you was that those guys quit. It turns out that you were being sarcastic and not very clear because you said you wanted to troll people. I responded by saying that it wasnt cool and then stated once you clarified that it's still not cool. There is very little that is going to change that. I dont think you're getting it...the very act of stating the facts, which is the MJ retired to imply that he quit, even though you were using that to show that a narrative could be spun, is offensive, because it ignores the very obvious, common sense context of his father being murdered and it likely having a major impact on him. Using this to try to troll people as you noted is not cool...and so yes, you deserved to be called out on this point. Obviously that is based on my opinion. You apparently dont think so for some reason. There isnt really anything else to say. I think it was her the top and crummy and you don't
    A little classless is a lot different than the rhetoric you were using before. You came in hot with bias, horrible people, classless not just a little etc. and going to the extremes shown. I don't even agree, I think you can note someone is soft if you think they are soft. If someone thinks his mom dying is the reason they can explain it logically instead of acting offended and doing what you did.

    You are trying to defend your narrative of the MJ situation when it isn't even relevant to the point. Yes, my point was MJ actually quit as in was not in the league those years. This is factual information and different than people assuming a guy playing the season until a game 7 or whatever quit (whether Lebron or Kobe) and I noted it due to the quote/video in OP. I am not sure about sarcastic but I was doing it with a specific reason in mind to make a specific point, sure. You called me biased initially actually not just not cool. You then went off a lot more too.

    I think what you don't understand is anyone can play the game you did to troll. If you are genuinely making these arguments throughout, yikes. It just seems a lot more like obvious trolling because this is often what it looks like ignoring context/distorting information/going to extremes and often seemingly with an intent to attack others (in this case play moral high ground due to your opinion here). I dunno maybe you aren't doing it with that intent it is just the exact same type of approach we would often see so I would strongly consider that moving forward, especially with how common it seems from you when certain players or posters are involved...
    Last edited by mngopher35; 06-10-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  6. #321
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    Cmon dudes let's just be friends [emoji2]

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  7. #322
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    You know who else goes to extremes?

    https://youtu.be/5xgjtm4_M20


    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Some of these guys should go into politics with how they're able to quickly spin and shift things around lol
    Politicians also lie and are disingenuous in their argumentsÖ..so youíd fit right in.



    Youíre better than this, Gopher.

  8. #323
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    Gopher is in my top 5 homeboys on PSD. If anyone has a problem with him, they got a problem with me.
    The Baker has come. Believe the hype.


  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Gopher is in my top 5 homeboys on PSD. If anyone has a problem with him, they got a problem with me.
    I'll take ya both on [emoji1745]

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    There's nothing disingenuous about saying it's over the line to use MJ walking away after his father was murdered as an example to basically defend LBJ. Valade didnt address the issue at all, he sidestepped it and started talking about some semantics on a completely unrelated topic that other posters pointed out didnt make much sense to be arguing about, but it was not at all related to what I initially posted about.

    You're right, my opinion is not proof that you guys are biased, but when someone uses an over the line example like you did, to essentially defend a player they like, it sure seems like bias is involved
    Actually as soon as that poster discovered the context of what you said and did, he called you embarrasing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pierzynski4Prez View Post
    Again I didnít look back and see when those posts were made and what season they were made in. I saw this year and last year and also assumed they came from this very thread.

    If they were ultimately referring to the same season I agree that is an embarrassing look.

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Well, you did ďtechnicallyĒ say some stuff that you later went back on for no reason other than to continue your Kobe>Lebron ďtoss upĒ. And then you show up here and act all offended over the ďMJ quitĒ stuff because people are defending Lebron (sorta) and Kobeís name got brought up.

    Everyone sees right through your ********. Best thing you can do is go back under Kobeís Rock and make a mess of that Kobe beach towel. Weíre past your shenanigans. Soon as I saw your name I knew exactly what you were up to just like last year when youíd comment on a few other threads when I said the only reason you popped your head out of the Lakers forum was to defend your crush. As soon as Lebron led the Lakers to another title you ****ed off again. Transparent homer.
    Quoted for truth.

    He went from LeBron and Kobe is a tossup and LeBron was clearly the best player on the Lakers title team to Kobe's still better and it's debatable whether LeBron was better than AD real quick.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Quoted for truth.

    He went from LeBron and Kobe is a tossup and LeBron was clearly the best player on the Lakers title team to Kobe's still better and it's debatable whether LeBron was better than AD real quick.
    But dude, thatís what a toss-up is.. Even if I still have a clear favorite that makes it .505 to .498, itís still a toss-up to the extreme.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Quoted for truth.

    He went from LeBron and Kobe is a tossup and LeBron was clearly the best player on the Lakers title team to Kobe's still better and it's debatable whether LeBron was better than AD real quick.
    The lbj/AD thing is laughable still; unless AD is running the offense and qbing the team?

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  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Actually as soon as that poster discovered the context of what you said and did, he called you embarrasing:
    That was in regards to a different topic, which I have since explained (i.e., a player being the best on the team doesn't mean it's not debatable and I myself said I still give it to LBJ but that a case could still be made for AD). He was pretty clear about the tossup issue, and he is right and it's basic common sense. I didn't bother addressing any of it because it was a smokescreen by you to distract from the main point, which is what I came here to discuss and which you didn't, because you didn't have a leg to stand on and you know it.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-12-2021 at 11:17 AM.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Quoted for truth.

    He went from LeBron and Kobe is a tossup and LeBron was clearly the best player on the Lakers title team to Kobe's still better and it's debatable whether LeBron was better than AD real quick.
    Learn to read dude, when did I say LBJ was clearly the best player on the team? I said "to be clear,... " as in to make my position clear I thought LBJ was the best player on the team...that is a far cry from saying he was clearly the best player on the team. I don't think he's been "clearly better than AD since about 2017 or so" and so that idea was never in play (ever, at least not for me). I did say he was the clear leader, which he was. I never thought he was clearly the best player, if it's close it's debatable in my book. And it's already been explained to you why one can say it's a toss up but still make a pick...and not just by me.

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