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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I only called it out because of the clear implication of saying MJ quit multiple times. It's not the word, it's what it implies because it completely ignores why he said he retired the first time. Had you simply said MJ retired after 98i wouldnt have said anything. It's frankly absurd that you would continue to try to defend it.

    AD warps the floor by playing out of the post, whenever he decides to do that, which creates a ton of opportunities. An argument definitely could be made, not just last year, several years before and they had been made. LBJ was certainly not the best player in the league last year or the year before. Last time he was at the top of the league was probably 2016 (although a case can be made for 2017 and 2018, i.e., it's debatable). An argument can be made for more than just all of them, for several other players as well. That doesn't mean they're better, but it does make it debatable, just like with AD.

    AD also completely dominates the game on defense, which again was a massive part of the team's success. You might not consider AD a true top 5, but he was considered that by most or very, very close to it. I think you completely downplay this to play up LBJ's accomplishment. It was a great thing, but they both played comparable roles. What gives LBJ the notable edge is actually that he was the leader
    Who knows why he retired the first time, the point was he wasn't in the league. Narratives can be made around anything and I never focused on that specific time in any way like you have been to try and attack. Nor do I go to extremes like defending racism/sexism to compared what is being done either. I think it is frankly absurd anyone would keep forcing these extremes on others then pretending they are being offensive.

    He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and FMVP on best team. He was right at top of MVP voting again this year as well. He has certainly been considered the better player for basically their entire overlapping times in the league even if it is right at that crossing over stage now very soon coming up. I agree he can create some in that manner but it has never been a go to create for the team type of thing just something he is capable of mixing in throughout. A great trait but he has always had creator/system doing more on that end in that sense than doing it himself just through him. He isn't dominating in touches/creating from post for example in his role on Lakers that isn't what was creating offense for them it was more through Lebron pretty clearly with that being mixed in when advantageous of switches created etc. especially. I do agree he added more defensively and again he is just outside that top 5 to me so sure he is close and I even note is taking over. I think most normally have Lebron top 3ish and AD more top 7ish or so though so that doesn't seem crazy to me and we can check some articles if we want. That doesn't change who was clearly the best player for them last postseason overall imo and creating/game planned for in the ways mentioned though either way.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Who knows why he retired the first time, the point was he wasn't in the league. Narratives can be made around anything and I never focused on that specific time in any way like you have been to try and attack. Nor do I go to extremes like defending racism/sexism to compared what is being done either. I think it is frankly absurd anyone would keep forcing these extremes on others then pretending they are being offensive.

    He was 2nd in MVP voting last year and FMVP on best team. He was right at top of MVP voting again this year as well. He has certainly been considered the better player for basically their entire overlapping times in the league even if it is right at that crossing over stage now very soon coming up. I agree he can create some in that manner but it has never been a go to create for the team type of thing just something he is capable of mixing in throughout. A great trait but he has always had creator/system doing more on that end in that sense than doing it himself just through him. He isn't dominating in touches/creating from post for example in his role on Lakers that isn't what was creating offense for them it was more through Lebron pretty clearly with that being mixed in when advantageous of switches created etc. especially. I do agree he added more defensively and again he is just outside that top 5 to me so sure he is close and I even note is taking over. I think most normally have Lebron top 3ish and AD more top 7ish or so though so that doesn't seem crazy to me and we can check some articles if we want. That doesn't change who was clearly the best player for them last postseason overall imo and creating/game planned for in the ways mentioned though either way.
    You really don't get that you frankly don't have the position to question why he retired given the circumstances. He retired for the reasons he stated and that should be how it's taken. Anything less makes anyone challenging that a horrible person.

    All the points you're making point to why LBJ was better (I agree, he was better), not why he was clearly better and again , it doesn't even matter because I disagree and never implied otherwise. I think it's close and I don't need to support why I think it's close and I frankly could care less if you guys agree with me on that or not, because this was never about Kobe vs. LBJ or LBJ vs. AD...you guys basically tuned it into that to deflect what this was actually about
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-10-2021 at 04:58 AM.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You really don't get that you frankly don't have the position to question why he retired given the circumstances. He retired for the reasons he stated and that should be how it's taken. Anything less makes anyone challenging that a horrible person.

    All the points you're making point to why LBJ was better, not why he was clearly better and again, it doesn't even matter because I disagree and never implied otherwise...this was never about Kobe or LBJ vs. AD...you guys basically tuned it into that to deflect what this was about
    No one is questioning him directly and as has been noted plenty it is extremely common to discuss why it happened. You are the only one I have ever seen flip out like this. Do I really need to share articles discussing reasons etc. why this happened? It isn't some tabboo topic never to be talked about again it was recently mentioned in another thread with reasoning given (gambling). No one said a word lol. You trying to make people out to be horrible people for noting a fact is the insane position here.

    Lol all you did was add the word clearly. Like I showed he's better. Just not clearly. Well I am not sure there is any way to ever to get you to use full context as I noted in situations you just stop when convenient. I showed he was better because he was, me being able to show that easily just referencing basics is why it is clear. IF you don't care seems odd you mentioned it at all and kept pushing the idea...

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It doesn't rile me up at all to put LBJ over Kobe. What does rile me up is posters in the LBJ forum basically being crummy people to defend their guy and then making excuses and saying things like "well I didn't technically say this or that" or "I'm just stating the facts". It's frankly kind of pathetic to not even take responsibility over it and you're no better for not being man enough to say anything about it
    Well, you did “technically” say some stuff that you later went back on for no reason other than to continue your Kobe>Lebron “toss up”. And then you show up here and act all offended over the “MJ quit” stuff because people are defending Lebron (sorta) and Kobe’s name got brought up.

    Everyone sees right through your ********. Best thing you can do is go back under Kobe’s Rock and make a mess of that Kobe beach towel. We’re past your shenanigans. Soon as I saw your name I knew exactly what you were up to just like last year when you’d comment on a few other threads when I said the only reason you popped your head out of the Lakers forum was to defend your crush. As soon as Lebron led the Lakers to another title you ****ed off again. Transparent homer.

  5. #275
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    No offense.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Well, you did “technically” say some stuff that you later went back on for no reason other than to continue your Kobe>Lebron “toss up”. And then you show up here and act all offended over the “MJ quit” stuff because people are defending Lebron (sorta) and Kobe’s name got brought up.

    Everyone sees right through your ********. Best thing you can do is go back under Kobe’s Rock and make a mess of that Kobe beach towel. We’re past your shenanigans. Soon as I saw your name I knew exactly what you were up to just like last year when you’d comment on a few other threads when I said the only reason you popped your head out of the Lakers forum was to defend your crush. As soon as Lebron led the Lakers to another title you ****ed off again. Transparent homer.
    Don't respond to me then dude. You're basically a coward and typically only respond when others are already engaged in a discussion with me. You're clearly a massive LBJ fanboy and that's cool, but no reason to carry yourself like a horrible person. Show some class and dignity. I could care less about ppl defending LBJ. I basically noted that saying a guy quit during a season he retired because his father was murdered is cowardly to do and you weren't man enough to call it out. Instead, you were happy to let it go by because people were defending your hero

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    No one is questioning him directly and as has been noted plenty it is extremely common to discuss why it happened. You are the only one I have ever seen flip out like this. Do I really need to share articles discussing reasons etc. why this happened? It isn't some tabboo topic never to be talked about again it was recently mentioned in another thread with reasoning given (gambling). No one said a word lol. You trying to make people out to be horrible people for noting a fact is the insane position here.

    Lol all you did was add the word clearly. Like I showed he's better. Just not clearly. Well I am not sure there is any way to ever to get you to use full context as I noted in situations you just stop when convenient. I showed he was better because he was, me being able to show that easily just referencing basics is why it is clear. IF you don't care seems odd you mentioned it at all and kept pushing the idea...

    I got baited into discussing it, but this was never about that. It was about you guys using an over the top example. You're not just noting a fact and you know it. There are clear implications that you're very conveniently overlooking to create a narrative. I've frankly never heard anyone say "MJ quit multiple times" because it would be a callous thing to say given why he retired the first time. That was the entire point of me coming on here. LBJ was slightly better than AD last season, that's my position and most had them ranked very closely, but it's complete irrelevant to what this thread is about and to what my posts were about

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Don't respond to me then dude. You're basically a coward and typically only respond when others are already engaged in a discussion with me. You're clearly a massive LBJ fanboy and that's cool, but no reason to carry yourself like a horrible person. Show some class and dignity. I could care less about ppl defending LBJ. I basically noted that saying a guy quit during a season he retired because his father was murdered is cowardly to do and you weren't man enough to call it out. Instead, you were happy to let it go by because people were defending your hero
    “Not Man enough to call it out”? I’m not the Forum Police. Get your panties in a wad for the Internet Injustices of the Day if you want but I’d rather call a hypocrite a hypocrite than worry about semantics over what the word “quit” means. If that’s all you wanted to say, then you said it. But that’s not really why you’re here and everyone knows it. Stop with this “Gotta protect Michael Jordan’s good name and reasons” when nobody is really slinging that mud. Transparent and sad.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    “Not Man enough to call it out”? I’m not the Forum Police. Get your panties in a wad for the Internet Injustices of the Day if you want but I’d rather call a hypocrite a hypocrite than worry about semantics over what the word “quit” means. If that’s all you wanted to say, then you said it. But that’s not really why you’re here and everyone knows it. Stop with this “Gotta protect Michael Jordan’s good name and reasons” when nobody is really slinging that mud. Transparent and sad.
    That's exactly why I was here. You guys just basically deflected because you know that it wasn't cool to make the implications that were being made. I don't even like MJ, but that was over the top to call him a quitter because he retired "multiple" times when one of those was because of what happened with his dad. Rather than focusing on the content, you guys started talking about things that were completely unrelated to any of this, which is why I've continued to say those other points don't matter because that's not what this is about

  10. #280
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    LeBron James Quits

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I got baited into discussing it, but this was never about that. It was about you guys using an over the top example. You're not just noting a fact and you know it. There are clear implications that you're very conveniently overlooking to create a narrative. I've frankly never heard anyone say "MJ quit multiple times" because it would be a callous thing to say given why he retired the first time. That was the entire point of me coming on here. LBJ was slightly better than AD last season, that's my position and most had them ranked very closely, but it's complete irrelevant to what this thread is about and to what my posts were about
    You are the one that made it so extreme/over the top though. Then you actually used an extreme/over the top example within the discussion with me. As I have noted this is all very hypocritical and based on what you are bringing up.

    I was noting multiple facts and common opinions I guess too then and using the term quit which was questioned as semantics early in the thread when someone else made the point/has been used tons in thread/actually fits and has been used before to describe. That is definitely what I was doing, the implications were that he actually was not in the league those seasons. Tons of places note this and again it is often talked about for various reasons. I never inserted an actual reason though, you did to attack in disingenuous manner.

    http://content.time.com/time/special...912585,00.html
    Top 10 quitters noting he quit to play baseball it doesn't even mention father

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertain...-tragedy.html/
    This notes the tragedy, calls it quitting still

    You seem to be the one going over the top on using this word but it isn't some crazy thing it's in media and people speculate on this forum etc. all the time you are just being crazy right now. I even have noted I don’t actually think any of them are quitters in a real/bad sense despite the narratives that can be made as well. I just don’t get it.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 06-10-2021 at 05:49 AM.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's exactly why I was here. You guys just basically deflected because you know that it wasn't cool to make the implications that were being made. I don't even like MJ, but that was over the top to call him a quitter because he retired "multiple" times when one of those was because of what happened with his dad. Rather than focusing on the content, you guys started talking about things that were completely unrelated to any of this, which is why I've continued to say those other points don't matter because that's not what this is about
    First thing you said in here was talking about how Kobe didn’t quit in ‘06. Then you brought up Jordan later in the post almost like an add-on. So no, that wasn’t why “exactly” you were here.



    But reasoning with a guy like you is futile because you always push the goal posts back and literally lie. We’ve all seen it enough to know that it’s a waste of time. I knew bringing up Kobe was a bad idea. Ol’ Tunnel Vision Jones over here is pretty ****ing relentless when Kobe’s name gets disparaged.

  12. #282
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    hey remember guys... he needs atleast 2 more titles before last years title just to be talked about on the level of kobe... then the dude vanished when lebron dominated/carried AD/won a title at the age of 9000 for the team he loves the most. He now returns when the lakers get eliminated because AD was trash in game 1 and made of glass the rest of the series and it was lebron with shroeder who is LOL bad and gone and ****ing kuzma/kcp as his 2nd best player against the suns who are destroying the nuggets with the mvp jokic. Really think about how sad and hilarious this is. He waited until a 1 man team lost to a suns team that is dominating the mvp and the nuggets just to talk trash. lmfao

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    hey remember guys... he needs atleast 2 more titles before last years title just to be talked about on the level of kobe... then the dude vanished when lebron dominated/carried AD/won a title at the age of 9000 for the team he loves the most. He now returns when the lakers get eliminated because AD was trash in game 1 and made of glass the rest of the series and it was lebron with shroeder who is LOL bad and gone and ****ing kuzma/kcp as his 2nd best player against the suns who are destroying the nuggets with the mvp jokic. Really think about how sad and hilarious this is. He waited until a 1 man team lost to a suns team that is dominating the mvp and the nuggets just to talk trash. lmfao
    Whatever narrative you want to attach to the rest of the team on why they lost.... let's remember to stay on topic: LeBron Quit.

    I knew to stay far away from making the topic about the reason for the Lakers losing and only intended to talk about LeBron's horrible body language, effort, leadership, camaraderie, pouting, which I've amounted to "quitting". Discuss.

    Everyone keeps saying other players do this but I haven't seen any clips of any other player acting this way during a playoff series over multiple moments. Still waiting....

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Whatever narrative you want to attach to the rest of the team on why they lost.... let's remember to stay on topic: LeBron Quit.

    I knew to stay far away from making the topic about the reason for the Lakers losing and only intended to talk about LeBron's horrible body language, effort, leadership, camaraderie, pouting, which I've amounted to "quitting". Discuss.

    Everyone keeps saying other players do this but I haven't seen any clips of any other player acting this way during a playoff series over multiple moments. Still waiting....
    On topic of nothing? He didn't quit lol

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  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    First thing you said in here was talking about how Kobe didn’t quit in ‘06. Then you brought up Jordan later in the post almost like an add-on. So no, that wasn’t why “exactly” you were here.



    But reasoning with a guy like you is futile because you always push the goal posts back and literally lie. We’ve all seen it enough to know that it’s a waste of time. I knew bringing up Kobe was a bad idea. Ol’ Tunnel Vision Jones over here is pretty ****ing relentless when Kobe’s name gets disparaged.
    I was pretty clear in the initial post that I was disagreeing about Kobe but that it was a fair game to discuss it, but that the MJ thing was not cool

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