NBA Playoffs Series Thread (1) Sixers vs (5) Hawks Atlanta wins 4-3

[warfelg]

Hes a big thing though. I mean how long are we going to turn an blind eye to it.... This might be Simmons last game in a 6ers uniform. Maybe benching him is not the answer but Docs gotta try something.

Ben cant be having 8pt,11pt, & 4pt outings in 38 mins, if thats what he is providing then no, limiting his minutes is not a huge over reaction.. If anything you are under reacting to those piss poor performances.

furthermore if you think the Twovles are going to give up Towns after watching Ben in these playoffs think again my man. with all due respect, I feel you still somewhat have rose coloured glasses on when it comes to Ben Simmons. I had a similar thing with Derozan when he was a raptor, I loved the guy but his short comings on defense were just way to much to over come and its a similar situation with Simmons only his short comings come on the offensive end. Sometimes a players flaws can be hidden so much before it becomes an anchor to the team.

Not wearing rose colored glasses, just not willing to call the guy *** when there's still a lot he brings to the table.

How are we "turning a blind eye" to it what it's all anyone ever talks about with the guy?

[smith&wesson]

Thank you.

And if Danny Green were healthy I'm willing to bet we win at least this game. Then the crunch time lineup could be Curry, Thybulle, Green, Harris, Embiid.

Also apparently everyone missed defensive stud Lou Williams shutting down Tobias Harris down the stretch too.

I mean if Danny Green is the guy you are hanging your hat on, I think that says alot because two teams who won a championship decided to move on from him. 3 if you count the Spurs. Green is decent, but hes not a needle mover and has def lost a step.

[smith&wesson]

Not wearing rose colored glasses, just not willing to call the guy *** when there's still a lot he brings to the table.

How are we "turning a blind eye" to it what it's all anyone ever talks about with the guy?

Its what every one else is talking about. You seem to be defending him at all costs. Which is totally ok, but when hes on someone elses team and you watch it from that perspective I bet youll say to yourself thank god he aint our problem anymore lol

[warfelg]

Its what every one else is talking about. You seem to be defending him at all costs. Which is totally ok, but when hes on someone elses team and you watch it from that perspective I bet youll say to yourself thank god he aint our problem anymore lol

Your confusing "defending" with "other issues". Pointing out other issues going on is by no means a defense of Simmons. Again, I've been calling for Simmons to be traded since before MTM or any other Sixers fan. Yes I'm going to defend against calling for a unanimous first team all-defense to be benched into a role he's never been asked to play regularly.

[warfelg]

I mean if Danny Green is the guy you are hanging your hat on, I think that says alot because two teams who won a championship decided to move on from him. 3 if you count the Spurs. Green is decent, but hes not a needle mover and has def lost a step.

It's not a hanging my hat on thing to say. But Green playing means more defense with some offense, pushes Korkmaz back to the bench, takes the offense/defense interchange late in the game off the table, and puts our vocal defensive leader back on the court. Otherwise you have to choose streaky offense that can get hot with barely NBA level defense or passable offense with great defense. At least with Danny we get ok offense and above average defense.

Yes he's lost a step, but the reasons for moving on need to be put into context - LA was to have money, left Toronto because they didn't offer as much, and was moved to Toronto to make salaries work.

Mind you with Green the defense was:
Simmons - Trae
Green - Bogdanovic
Curry - Hill
Harris - Collins
Embiid - Capela

and it was working.

Without Green it is:
Simmons - Trae
Curry - Bogdanovic
Korkmaz - Huerter
Harris - Collins
Embiid - Capela

[mngopher35]

If you want it be more obvious check his production in this series. It def hamstrings them.

Let me ask you this as a wolves fan. Would you trade Towns for Simmons straight up

No as I noted responding to War, no thanks. There is a big difference between wanting to trade what at least until now was considered our building block/face for a guy and the idea he shouldn't be benched. Towns is a flawed All Star type as well though in multiple ways even if I think he is better. I still would like adding Simmons to our core if possible I don't think he is some bad player we are talking about benching and playing 12 mpg.

His production this series being down does not negate what I just noted about them starting well and him being a part of it or his overall talent (he's an all star, 1st team all defense this season). He leads the team in assists even if his scoring/shooting is obviously an issue and was in the DPOY conversation as well. His RS ppg was 14.3ppg and 6.9 apg and he is low on one high on the other this series in comparison. I can't see on/off for the series but is currently a +24 on/off for the playoffs as a whole 2nd on the team, I can't see this specific series though unfortunately. The last two games in the losses he was a combined +7 while on the court. The team isn't necessarily failing due to him being on the court even if he is having some issues at times and definitely needs to play better.

If someone said maybe they need to play him closer to 30 mpg and figure out rotations to limit some of the flaws being exposed this series, ok make that argument. Benching and playing him 12 mpg with the season on the line is an overreaction though imo.

[warfelg]

No as I noted responding to War, no thanks. There is a big difference between wanting to trade what at least until now was considered our building block/face for a guy and the idea he shouldn't be benched. Towns is a flawed All Star type as well though in multiple ways even if I think he is better. I still would like adding Simmons to our core if possible I don't think he is some bad player we are talking about benching and playing 12 mpg.

His production this series being down does not negate what I just noted about them starting well and him being a part of it or his overall talent (he's an all star, 1st team all defense this season). He leads the team in assists even if his scoring/shooting is obviously an issue and was in the DPOY conversation as well. His RS ppg was 14.3ppg and 6.9 apg and he is low on one high on the other this series in comparison. I can't see on/off for the series but is currently a +24 on/off for the playoffs as a whole 2nd on the team, I can't see this specific series though unfortunately. The last two games in the losses he was a combined +7 while on the court. The team isn't necessarily failing due to him being on the court even if he is having some issues at times and definitely needs to play better.

If someone said maybe they need to play him closer to 30 mpg and figure out rotations to limit some of the flaws being exposed this series, ok make that argument. Benching and playing him 12 mpg with the season on the line is an overreaction though imo.

I dunno man. We can’t have middle grounds.

As I’m typing this the guy filling in with The Max Kellerman Show is ripping Giannis just as hard as Simmons, calling him weak for not taking KD.


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[smith&wesson]

No as I noted responding to War, no thanks. There is a big difference between wanting to trade what at least until now was considered our building block/face for a guy and the idea he shouldn't be benched. Towns is a flawed All Star type as well though in multiple ways even if I think he is better. I still would like adding Simmons to our core if possible I don't think he is some bad player we are talking about benching and playing 12 mpg.

His production this series being down does not negate what I just noted about them starting well and him being a part of it or his overall talent (he's an all star, 1st team all defense this season). He leads the team in assists even if his scoring/shooting is obviously an issue and was in the DPOY conversation as well. His RS ppg was 14.3ppg and 6.9 apg and he is low on one high on the other this series in comparison. I can't see on/off for the series but is currently a +24 on/off for the playoffs as a whole 2nd on the team, I can't see this specific series though unfortunately. The last two games in the losses he was a combined +7 while on the court. The team isn't necessarily failing due to him being on the court even if he is having some issues at times and definitely needs to play better.

If someone said maybe they need to play him closer to 30 mpg and figure out rotations to limit some of the flaws being exposed this series, ok make that argument. Benching and playing him 12 mpg with the season on the line is an overreaction though imo.

you do realize that wasn't my post right, I said to War that maybe benching Simmons is not the answer but Doc has to try something. The post you are referring to was by NBA starter. You are welcome to continue that discussion with him.

I was simply asking you as a T wolves fan if you would be ok with trading Towns and Simmons straight up and I believe you answered that. Towns has more value than Simmons simply put.

[mngopher35]

you do realize that wasn't my post right, I said to War that maybe benching Simmons is not the answer but Doc has to try something. The post you are referring to was by NBA starter. You are welcome to continue that discussion with him.

I was simply asking you as a T wolves fan if you would be ok with trading Towns and Simmons straight up and I believe you answered that. Towns has more value than Simmons simply put.

War was responding to that post saying it was an overreaction and you said it isn't really an overreaction bro. I responded to that post specifically making the point about Ben not benched and only 12 minutes then you told me to check his production which I then broke down. If you weren't defending that idea it seems odd to respond the way you did, that type of thing would be an overreaction like we had been saying.

Ya I had already responded to War saying no thanks on that. I dunno I was just responding to what was being said.

[smith&wesson]

Nah, Ben can't play more than 12 minutes in game 6 or Sixers lose. All his minutes need to come at the 5 position too.

The rest of his time in Philly, he's Joel's back-up, other than that the kid is useless. He can slide in DM's and play mobile games on the sideline while Joel with a bum knee tries to take Philly to their first ECF in 20 years and only the second time in 36 years.

If it meant winning game 6 and 7, would you be on board?

If Ben off the bench as Joel's back-up for 10 to 12 minutes a night meant 76ers in the ECF would you do it?

I'm not asking you if you think it would work or not, but if shifting his role was the difference, would it be okay?

Or you think Ben should start and play 36 MPG but then the 76ers don't advance to the ECF.

Which would you prefer?

Hes a big thing though. I mean how long are we going to turn an blind eye to it.... This might be Simmons last game in a 6ers uniform. Maybe benching him is not the answer but Docs gotta try something.

Ben cant be having 8pt,11pt, & 4pt outings in 38 mins, if thats what he is providing then no, limiting his minutes is not a huge over reaction.. If anything you are under reacting to those piss poor performances.

furthermore if you think the Twovles are going to give up Towns after watching Ben in these playoffs think again my man. with all due respect, I feel you still somewhat have rose coloured glasses on when it comes to Ben Simmons. I had a similar thing with Derozan when he was a raptor, I loved the guy but his short comings on defense were just way to much to over come and its a similar situation with Simmons only his short comings come on the offensive end. Sometimes a players flaws can be hidden so much before it becomes an anchor to the team.

Alls Im saying is that its not a huge over reaction when Ben has scored 11, 8, & 4 pts in 3 games this series playing 38 mins a game. Now maybe 12 mins is an exaggeration. If its a defensive game then yeah you leave him in because that's where he thrives. But limiting Simmons minutes if you need points up on the board is not unfathomable.

[smith&wesson]

War was responding to that post saying it was an overreaction and you said it isn't really an overreaction bro. I responded to that post specifically making the point about Ben not benched and only 12 minutes then you told me to check his production which I then broke down. If you weren't defending that idea it seems odd to respond the way you did, that type of thing would be an overreaction like we had been saying.

Ya I had already responded to War saying no thanks on that. I dunno I was just responding to what was being said.

Right and I responded maybes that's not the answer, but Doc should try something. Because War, Starter, and I were also talking about how Doc hasn't made adjustments but needs too. If he stays with status quote, chances are nothing changes.

I was simply asking you about the trade suggestion because youre a twovles fan and wanted your perspective on it.

[mngopher35]

Alls Im saying is that its not a huge over reaction when Ben has scored 11, 8, & 4 pts in 3 games this series playing 38 mins a game. Now maybe 12 mins is an exaggeration. If its a defensive game then yeah you leave him in because that's where he thrives. But limiting Simmons minutes if you need points up on the board is not unfathomable.

If I need to I can quote what I was referencing, you later responding like that doesn't change your initial posts being responded to. We agree benching maybe isn't the answer and as me and war had been saying limiting him to that extent is an overreaction.

Limiting his minutes in certain situations is moreso what I noted in my post, that is a far more reasonable take.

[smith&wesson]

No as I noted responding to War, no thanks. There is a big difference between wanting to trade what at least until now was considered our building block/face for a guy and the idea he shouldn't be benched. Towns is a flawed All Star type as well though in multiple ways even if I think he is better. I still would like adding Simmons to our core if possible I don't think he is some bad player we are talking about benching and playing 12 mpg.

His production this series being down does not negate what I just noted about them starting well and him being a part of it or his overall talent (he's an all star, 1st team all defense this season). He leads the team in assists even if his scoring/shooting is obviously an issue and was in the DPOY conversation as well. His RS ppg was 14.3ppg and 6.9 apg and he is low on one high on the other this series in comparison. I can't see on/off for the series but is currently a +24 on/off for the playoffs as a whole 2nd on the team, I can't see this specific series though unfortunately. The last two games in the losses he was a combined +7 while on the court. The team isn't necessarily failing due to him being on the court even if he is having some issues at times and definitely needs to play better.

If someone said maybe they need to play him closer to 30 mpg and figure out rotations to limit some of the flaws being exposed this series, ok make that argument. Benching and playing him 12 mpg with the season on the line is an overreaction though imo.

again the 12 minutes a game is likely an exaggeration...

But to your point about Towns being a flawed star, the difference is that he is playing in an era where offense heavily outweighs defense.

Towns is one of the better Cs in the league. There's only a handful of them. Jokic, Embiid, Vuc, Gobert, Towns is the short list of really good 5s in our league today so his value is going to be higher than a defensive point guard that cant shoot a lick, not even from the free throw line.

Now if were talking about the 80s, or 90s I would give Simmons a lot more credit because defense was valued a lot more back then. Centers weren't extending their range out to the 3 point line. So while Towns is not the greatest defender, in this era he is a higher valued commodity as an offensive weapon with a skillset that maybe only 2-3 other Cs in the league have.

[smith&wesson]

If I need to I can quote what I was referencing, you later responding like that doesn't change your initial posts being responded to. We agree benching maybe isn't the answer and as me and war had been saying limiting him to that extent is an overreaction.

Limiting his minutes in certain situations is moreso what I noted in my post, that is a far more reasonable take.

Its just for clarification. It was not intended to annoy you. lol because I think were saying alot of the same stuff here.

[smith&wesson]

If I need to I can quote what I was referencing, you later responding like that doesn't change your initial posts being responded to. We agree benching maybe isn't the answer and as me and war had been saying limiting him to that extent is an overreaction.

Limiting his minutes in certain situations is moreso what I noted in my post, that is a far more reasonable take.

which is what I said. Im assuming that starter was exaggerating when saying 12 minutes, because that drastic. But I do think Doc needs to try something new, shake things up a bit. thats why I was clarifying it for ya