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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    They do worse than nothing. They actively pass laws that make gun violence worse. They also get appointed to make rulings like this that make us less safe.
    Except gun violence has been going down EVERY YEAR across the country in EVERY STATE regardless of their gun laws.
    States that enact tough gun laws, saw reductions in gun deaths. States that enacted looser gun restrictions...saw reductions in gun deaths. EVERY STATE.

    So no, they ARE NOT doing things to make gun violence worse, because it's been getting better accross the board.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    What percentage of those daily mass shootings are done by AR15s?

    I think the "assault weapon" argument is disingenuous to "reduce gun violence".
    What specifically makes it disingenuous?

    I think if anyone is saying that's all that is needed it could be seen that way but often times it is just one aspect among many people would want to take to reduce gun violence.

    I don't know the percentage but I believe Boulder/Parkland/LV/Pittsburgh/Sandy Hook/Orlando were all done with a type of assault weapon/rifle I believe to name some of the larger fatality ones (at least 10 deaths). I am not sure % wise but I think the issue with assault weapons specifically is how it is easier to kill more quickly.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 06-05-2021 at 08:11 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    What specifically makes it disingenuous?

    I think if anyone is saying that's all that is needed it could be seen that way but often times it is just one aspect among many people would want to take to reduce gun violence.

    I don't know the percentage but I believe Boulder/Parkland/LV/Pittsburgh/Sandy Hook/Orlando were all done with a type of assault weapon/rifle I believe to name some of the larger fatality ones (at least 10 deaths). I am not sure % wise but I think the issue with assault weapons specifically is how it is easier to kill more quickly.
    Yes and if you want to reduce gun violence banning those types of weapons will do little in that regard because the vast majority of all gun deaths come from gang violence etc which is mainly used with handguns.


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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Yes and if you want to reduce gun violence banning those types of weapons will do little in that regard because the vast majority of all gun deaths come from gang violence etc which is mainly used with handguns.


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    When maniacs want to kill a lot of people at once, they use an AR-15, not a handgun. You can't kill 20+ people with a knife or a handgun for that matter.

    Handguns are also a problem, but a different problem. Handguns do kill the most people, but ARs kill the most people at once. You don't need to reload and don't really need to know what you are doing.

    If you think this is a good decision, you are a seriously disturbed individual
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Yes and if you want to reduce gun violence banning those types of weapons will do little in that regard because the vast majority of all gun deaths come from gang violence etc which is mainly used with handguns.


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    Wanting to reduce gun death is not something where it all has to be one thing or nothing there are many aspects. One aspect is how easy it is for individuals to kill and injure many many people like in LV and assault weapons are more common in those major incidents as noted.

    I mean even just common sense if you want gun control due to danger, the most dangerous guns seem like a solid option. As many note there are at least some reasons to have other types of guns and they are obviously way more common. That so many other guns get used to kill people isn't really the case you think it is against assault weapons given that context but it is an obvious reason we need way more too. We could have a national registry (then we can hit anyone with "illegal" guns moving forward and find out where the ones used are coming from etc), we could have education/training requirements for the permits, required background checks for all purchases and many other things as well. None of this negates the specific dangers from the more deadly weapons or general idea behind also having restrictions on assault weapons though.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    What specifically makes it disingenuous?

    I think if anyone is saying that's all that is needed it could be seen that way but often times it is just one aspect among many people would want to take to reduce gun violence.

    I don't know the percentage but I believe Boulder/Parkland/LV/Pittsburgh/Sandy Hook/Orlando were all done with a type of assault weapon/rifle I believe to name some of the larger fatality ones (at least 10 deaths). I am not sure % wise but I think the issue with assault weapons specifically is how it is easier to kill more quickly.
    The majority of mass shootings are done with hand guns, it's not even close. Semi-automatic guns make it easier to fire more bullets quickly.

    In fact rather paradoxically, if we legalized fully auto guns and banned semi auto, we'd probably have less deaths.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Wanting to reduce gun death is not something where it all has to be one thing or nothing there are many aspects. One aspect is how easy it is for individuals to kill and injure many many people like in LV and assault weapons are more common in those major incidents as noted.

    I mean even just common sense if you want gun control due to danger, the most dangerous guns seem like a solid option. As many note there are at least some reasons to have other types of guns and they are obviously way more common. That so many other guns get used to kill people isn't really the case you think it is against assault weapons given that context but it is an obvious reason we need way more too. We could have a national registry (then we can hit anyone with "illegal" guns moving forward and find out where the ones used are coming from etc), we could have education/training requirements for the permits, required background checks for all purchases and many other things as well. None of this negates the specific dangers from the more deadly weapons or general idea behind also having restrictions on assault weapons though.
    Semi-auto refiles like the AR-15 are far more versatile than hand guns, semi-auto guns like the AR-15 are used far less in killings and mass shootings than handguns.
    But there is no argument for banning the sale of all hand guns.

  8. #23
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    California judge overturns state's 32 year ban on assault weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    The majority of mass shootings are done with hand guns, it's not even close. Semi-automatic guns make it easier to fire more bullets quickly.

    In fact rather paradoxically, if we legalized fully auto guns and banned semi auto, we'd probably have less deaths.
    This doesn’t address my point or anything about it at all other than noting the obvious reason I am making it (makes it easier to fire bullets quickly hence the largest incidents often do use them).

    We will never know but that misses the point as well. A lot of what is done is also based on what is possible in this political landscape (and many in this country would go nuts if we actually took the most overall extreme measures you have to consider hunters/sport and protection etc in this context which is why I asked for the reasoning/need/uses for assault weapons). Outside of that issue, the most dangerous guns due to being able to kill quicker/more and often used in the major incidents (some happening pretty recently) aren’t some thing to completely ignore and it isn’t disingenuous to take action towards them for specific reasons like that.


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    Last edited by mngopher35; 06-05-2021 at 10:02 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Wanting to reduce gun death is not something where it all has to be one thing or nothing there are many aspects. One aspect is how easy it is for individuals to kill and injure many many people like in LV and assault weapons are more common in those major incidents as noted.

    I mean even just common sense if you want gun control due to danger, the most dangerous guns seem like a solid option. As many note there are at least some reasons to have other types of guns and they are obviously way more common. That so many other guns get used to kill people isn't really the case you think it is against assault weapons given that context but it is an obvious reason we need way more too. We could have a national registry (then we can hit anyone with "illegal" guns moving forward and find out where the ones used are coming from etc), we could have education/training requirements for the permits, required background checks for all purchases and many other things as well. None of this negates the specific dangers from the more deadly weapons or general idea behind also having restrictions on assault weapons though.
    Not once in your post do you mention increasing prison sentences for criminals using a fire arm to commit crime. I know that you’re not in California but not only is the legislature making it possible for the early release of approximately 70,000 inmates already convicted of violent crimes, many of which invloved guns, but they also want to do away with enhanced sentencing when criminals use guns to commit their crimes.

    But yeah, keep kicking law abiding citizens in the nads about their support for the 2A

    You want cooperation from the gun owning public? Tell Uncle Joe and his lackey O’Roarke to sit down and shut the hell up about the confiscation thing. Denounce the California legislature for giving criminals a pass for using guns to commit crimes. You guys that support gun control are so contradictory in your support of this BS that the legal gun owning public has no choice but to stand in the way of what you propose due to mission creep.

    The genie is already out of the bottle, the left has already stated that confiscation is on the table.

    You want to get the other side back to the table? Get your dog on a leash first and stop attacking law abiding supporters of the 2A....
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    They do worse than nothing. They actively pass laws that make gun violence worse. They also get appointed to make rulings like this that make us less safe.
    I actually agree with this, see the latest actions of the California legislature to do away with enhanced sentencing for those convicted of using a gun to commit a crime...
    The Second protects the First, always has and always will...

  11. #26
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    California judge overturns state's 32 year ban on assault weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    I actually agree with this, see the latest actions of the California legislature to do away with enhanced sentencing for those convicted of using a gun to commit a crime...
    Sometimes natural sentences get too saggy or aren’t even but I enhanced ones can feel unnatural. Right Scoots?


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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    Not once in your post do you mention increasing prison sentences for criminals using a fire arm to commit crime. I know that you’re not in California but not only is the legislature making it possible for the early release of approximately 70,000 inmates already convicted of violent crimes, many of which invloved guns, but they also want to do away with enhanced sentencing when criminals use guns to commit their crimes.

    But yeah, keep kicking law abiding citizens in the nads about their support for the 2A

    You want cooperation from the gun owning public? Tell Uncle Joe and his lackey O’Roarke to sit down and shut the hell up about the confiscation thing. Denounce the California legislature for giving criminals a pass for using guns to commit crimes. You guys that support gun control are so contradictory in your support of this BS that the legal gun owning public has no choice but to stand in the way of what you propose due to mission creep.

    The genie is already out of the bottle, the left has already stated that confiscation is on the table.

    You want to get the other side back to the table? Get your dog on a leash first and stop attacking law abiding supporters of the 2A....
    I didn't mention a lot of things unrelated to my point or what I was responding to. I do not live in CA but that seems like a questionable move to me. I haven't seen anything about letting violent criminals who used guns to commit their crime off like this is probably another reason I did not mention it.

    I am not sure what the next part about kicking law abiding citizens in the nads or the left ____ or ranting about those supporting gun control etc. this seems unrelated to my point completely and more a disingenuous attempt to deflect. I would like to denounce the California thing if I actually knew what it was, do you have a link so I can see what it is to denounce it properly?

    Anyways though this is 3 responses to a general point being made with what I said to Scoots and literally not one person has addressed my main point or the logic/common sense either in a meaningful way. It has all been deflecting and even ranting a bit like this unrelated to anything. Those wanting to make people out as disingenuous etc. for it often have an agenda and the deflections, but what about unrelated aspects, ranting about left and those who support gun control while never addressing my main point help show that to be the case in reality. People don't have to agree but the basic point/idea behind it isn't really difficult, it takes trying to twist away from it to paint it as disingenuous imo.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 06-06-2021 at 12:09 AM.

  13. #28
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    https://youtu.be/rU60h9xDfzU
    ATF Nominee can't define an assault weapon.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Conservatives look at gun violence in this country and literally refuse to do anything that could (realistically) curb it. I think my last post in any gun control thread was just me giving up and saying "show me that conservatives care to do anything....literally one thing...to show that this is not only a problem that can be improved, but an actual problem.

    I think right wingers like the violence What other explanations are there? I mean, they all claim to be patriots, lovers of America and the police. Cops killed? Duck it! More guns! Kids slaughtered in schools? Whatever. Maybe metal detectors. And half the rest you guys argue deserved it or some psychotic ****. Surely they'd want to see efforts made to stop this almost wholly unique problem that is gun violence in America.

    Sounding like a Lib today. Don't care! Y'all are freaks!

    Feels like short of like 20 prominent Republicans being victims of gun crimes for any progress. Again. ANYTHING.

    Still nothing. They love the violence.
    This hit the nail on the head. We were talking about gun control in another thread, and it comes down to conservatives simply do not believe that less guns would reduce violence. They actually think the solution is more guns.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Conservatives look at gun violence in this country and literally refuse to do anything that could (realistically) curb it. I think my last post in any gun control thread was just me giving up and saying "show me that conservatives care to do anything....literally one thing...to show that this is not only a problem that can be improved, but an actual problem.

    I think right wingers like the violence What other explanations are there? I mean, they all claim to be patriots, lovers of America and the police. Cops killed? Duck it! More guns! Kids slaughtered in schools? Whatever. Maybe metal detectors. And half the rest you guys argue deserved it or some psychotic ****. Surely they'd want to see efforts made to stop this almost wholly unique problem that is gun violence in America.

    Sounding like a Lib today. Don't care! Y'all are freaks!

    Feels like short of like 20 prominent Republicans being victims of gun crimes for any progress. Again. ANYTHING.

    Still nothing. They love the violence.
    You may be closer to the truth than many of us will concede, and I do not think our obsession is restricted to conservatives.

    It goes without saying that America is, and always has been, a very violent country. But as a nation, we really are genuinely addicted to it.

    We love our revolutions, our wars, our lynchings, our riots, our destruction of the environment, our murders, suicides, and mass killings. And we love our various predatory systems: blatant racism, sexism, crony capitalism, all promulgated under the phony banner of constitutional freedom.

    The more guns, the greater the violence. The more powerful the guns, the jucier the violence.

    And we say ours is a country founded on so-called religious (Christian?) principles.

    God, Guns, and Guts Made America Great.

    Ha!
    Last edited by Crovash; 06-06-2021 at 01:04 PM.

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