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  1. #286
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    We've discussed this before and gravity and respect are not a great measures of warp, imo (although I do like these statistics and I think they are certainly on the right track in terms of what we should be looking at). Unfortunately, they're not not really available to look at unless you pay for them and as far as I can tell, it seems to only go back to 2013? I think to account for warp, we need something that in addition to those gravity and respect metrics, they also incorporate double and triple teams and how quickly defensive players are able to rotate back (which would provide a measure of how hard the defensive players commit when they help and how that distorts the spacing). I do think these more nuanced types of metrics are very promising though and I'm hopeful that in the next decade or so we'll see more of this sort of thing.
    Which player today warp the floor the most?

  2. #287
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    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    Which player today warp the floor the most?
    That's an excellent question. I'm honestly not sure. A few contenders off the top of my head I would say are Curry, Embiid, Giannis, KL, KD and maybe Harden, and LBJ prior to getting hurt. AD does when he decides to attack strong, but as we know, he's very inconsistent in taking that approach.

  3. #288
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    We've discussed this before and gravity and respect are not a great measures of warp, imo (although I do like these statistics and I think they are certainly on the right track in terms of what we should be looking at). Unfortunately, they're not not really available to look at unless you pay for them and as far as I can tell, it seems to only go back to 2013? I think to account for warp, we need something that in addition to those gravity and respect metrics, they also incorporate double and triple teams and how quickly defensive players are able to rotate back (which would provide a measure of how hard the defensive players commit when they help and how that distorts the spacing). I do think these more nuanced types of metrics are very promising though and I'm hopeful that in the next decade or so we'll see more of this sort of thing.
    They actually have stats that measure how often a player is double or triple teamed...


    But the point is, you are going to get a better idea of who warps the floor if you look at gravity, respect, and the # of double and triple teams as opposed to if we don't.

  4. #289
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    That's an excellent question. I'm honestly not sure. A few contenders off the top of my head I would say are Curry, Embiid, Giannis, KL, KD and maybe Harden, and LBJ prior to getting hurt. AD does when he decides to attack strong, but as we know, he's very inconsistent in taking that approach.
    How many games of each of these players did you watch this past season?

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    They actually have stats that measure how often a player is double or triple teamed...


    But the point is, you are going to get a better idea of who warps the floor if you look at gravity, respect, and the # of double and triple teams as opposed to if we don't.
    Yeah, I don't disagree with you on this, which is why I've told you that I like those metrics and I think they're definitely in the right direction if we want to be able to assess players.

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    How many games of each of these players did you watch this past season?
    Well I saw every LBJ and AD game. Not nearly as many for the other guys, I'd say maybe an average of 10-15 for each of the other guys on there (not including playoff games).

  7. #292
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    Nov 2008
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    13,087
    The Bucks/Nets series was a perfect example of why super teams suck though. Durant played too many minutes and could have used a bit of a deeper team, but it was fun watching Kevin Durant try to be the best player in the league every night. When super teams are at full strength, that doesn't have to happen. When Durant was in Golden State, he could basically play 2nd or even 3rd fiddle some nights when Steph blew up. But with the injured Nets, he had to be the guy every time. And that's a ton of fun. We saw it with Steph too this year. Dame has done it for awhile. Harden did it in Houston. I'd love for deeper teams, but I just think basketball is more fun when the best players have to be the best guy night in and night out, not teams that have 3 elite players where they can trade off who's going to be the stud tonight.

  8. #293
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    Jun 2007
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    LA
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I was asking about your credentials when it comes to valuing your eye test as it pertains to basketball analysis. I'm familiar with your credentials from previous conversations, though I must say I find it very difficult to believe.

    I buy that a Ph.D. educated statistician would be wary of advanced analytics because they don't feel they are exact enough, but I don't buy them then reverting to an inferior statistical measure with which to base their opinions on.

    It'd be like a medical doctor talking extensively about the flaws in a particular medication in treating cancer and then saying "because of how flawed that medicine is, I use the power of prayer to treat cancer instead".
    Is he good a prayer? Those people exist but they use more than just spiritual healing alone.

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