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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It's funny because analyses have been reported and articles written by ESPN showing the considerable decrease Love had when he teamed up with LBJ, as well as others such as Wade and Bosh. Yes, AD did not have that kind of drop and that was one of the things I wanted to see (before moving LBJ up) and I did last season, but again, this isn't about your crush and obsession with LBJ. You might not remember how highly Love was thought of at the time because it might not suit your agenda, but Love was considered the best PF and the most highly sought after young player when he went to the cavs (just as AD was at one point). AD might've been thought of more highly, but Love was considered a massive pickup by the cavs. At any rate, way to derail the discussion...once again, try to stay on topic
    I think thats a little bit of a stretch, certainly one of the best PFs, but I dont think he was universally considered the best.

    This is like the Chris Bosh treatment... he was a very good player, but looking back at it since he was traded to Lebrons team, theres this narrative that he was the best in the game trying to stack Lebron's help.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    It’s a bad comparison


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    Yeah, agreed. Pippen seemed to struggle to score in the half court, especially when he was the primary offensive player on the court. He was excellent in the open court, but I think to be a true #1, a player needs to be far more well rounded offensively than Pippen was. That is actually why I would prefer Kyrie as a #1 than Pippen. Pippen might be a better #2 than Kyrie though because of his defense, but I think those kind of players are more comparable to Pippen than Ewing or Drexler

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    I think thats a little bit of a stretch, certainly one of the best PFs, but I dont think he was universally considered the best.

    This is like the Chris Bosh treatment... he was a very good player, but looking back at it since he was traded to Lebrons team, theres this narrative that he was the best in the game trying to stack Lebron's help.
    But that's the thing though right, the perspective changes once they didnt fully live up to what we were expecting. At the time, people thought Love was on par for a first ballot HOF career and based on his production he was. In 2014, I thought Love was the best PF in the game (granted that there weren't very many great PFs at the time, but still). I along with most of the league thought pretty highly of Love. I know some thought his numbers were inflated in minny, but there's very few who can put up around 26 and 13 in multiple seasons so I think those projections were reasonable given what we were seeing at the time

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    But that's the thing though right, the perspective changes once they didnt fully live up to what we were expecting. At the time, people thought Love was on par for a first ballot HOF career and based on his production he was. In 2014, I thought Love was the best PF in the game (granted that there weren't very many great PFs at the time, but still). I along with most of the league thought pretty highly of Love. I know some thought his numbers were inflated in minny, but there's very few who can put up around 26 and 13 in multiple seasons so I think those projections were reasonable given what we were seeing at the time
    Oh i agree with you, I loved Love's game... I thought his talent was wasting away in Minnesota, and I was ecstatic when he got traded to Cleveland.
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I said they were comparable when Love was in Minnesota. Difficult to know how Love's career would've turned out if it weren't for all the injuries, but he was having monster seasons during that time. I do think Kyrie is comparable to Pippen and when he's actually playing and not causing issues, I think he's a better #1 option (mostly because Pippen was fairly limited offensively). I see Pippen more of a true #2 so I put him in the same category as guys are excellent #2s.
    Except we saw Kyrie as a #1, his teams under achieved. Badly.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Love doesn’t approach Pippen. When Irving shows up and isn’t a cancer he’s pretty ****ing good. I wouldn’t take him long term bc of the mental/locker room issues but when he is right I think that’s very reasonable. He posted 26 and 6 on 50,40,90 when he played this year.

    I wouldn’t take Irving long term but he might be better for a run
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    Well yes when you take away a player’s flaws he looks better than he is...

    You said Pippen shouldn’t be on Ewing and Clyde’s level because he couldn’t have been the face of a franchise on a contending team for a decade. Well what makes you think Kyrie could? We saw what happened in Boston, it was a bigger failure as a #1 than Pippen ever did.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well yes when you take away a player’s flaws he looks better than he is...

    You said Pippen shouldn’t be on Ewing and Clyde’s level because he couldn’t have been the face of a franchise on a contending team for a decade. Well what makes you think Kyrie could? We saw what happened in Boston, it was a bigger failure as a #1 than Pippen ever did.
    I didn’t say Kyrie could. I never said either of those second bananas were close to Ewing and Clyde.


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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It's funny because analyses have been reported and articles written by ESPN showing the considerable decrease Love had when he teamed up with LBJ, as well as others such as Wade and Bosh. Yes, AD did not have that kind of drop and that was one of the things I wanted to see (before moving LBJ up) and I did last season, but again, this isn't about your crush and obsession with LBJ. You might not remember how highly Love was thought of at the time because it might not suit your agenda, but Love was considered the best PF and the most highly sought after young player when he went to the cavs (just as AD was at one point). AD might've been thought of more highly, but Love was considered a massive pickup by the cavs. At any rate, way to derail the discussion...once again, try to stay on topic
    Love’s stock did fall when he went to Cleveland, but it was never as high as you’re making out. He was never considered top 5 or the best PF. This is revisionist history.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Again, I consider Bosh and Pippen to be comparable. Pippen had the better career and probably gets the nod over these guys because of his great defense, but I really don't know how far Pippen goes if he's never in Chicago. Not sure what Kobe has to do with this conversation or LBJ, but for what it's worth I don't think Kobe was ever a Pippen because Pippen was never a true #1, and Kobe was. During titles, Kobe was in the top 5 (might've been just outside of it in 2000), whereas Pippen was just inside the top 10 or outside of it. I think the highest Pippen probably ever reached was maybe top 8 but there were usually about 7 or 8 other guys that a strong argument could be made for them (and I'm actually not convinced that he was better than some of those guys on those seasons). At any rate, maybe try to stay on topic. This thread isnt about LBJ or Kobe
    Don’t know how far Pippen goes? On a single year without MJ he went farther than Bosh, Love, or Kyrie ever took their team as a #1.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I didn’t say Kyrie could. I never said either of those second bananas were close to Ewing and Clyde.
    I disagree.

  11. #131
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    I’m mostly just happy I absolutely nailed BigMove’s ulterior motives and agenda on this topic.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Except we saw Kyrie as a #1, his teams under achieved. Badly.
    Yeah, that's entirely a fair point. I think with Kyrie though it's more of a personality thing than something that has to do with his basketball ability. To be fair though, Pippen completely melted down in a crucial moment in a playoff game as a #1 and literally had a tantrum and refused to enter the game because someone else was asked to take the last shot. I think both Kyrie and Pippen have notable flaws as #1s. I think for Kyrie it's more of his personality though, whereas with Pippen I think it's both basketball ability wise and his personality. I do think his game might make Pippen a better #2 than Kyrie though (but it depends on what role they have to fill in that #2 slot).

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yeah, that's entirely a fair point. I think with Kyrie though it's more of a personality thing than something that has to do with his basketball ability. To be fair though, Pippen completely melted down in a crucial moment in a playoff game as a #1 and literally had a tantrum and refused to enter the game because someone else was asked to take the last shot. I think both Kyrie and Pippen have notable flaws as #1s. I think for Kyrie it's more of his personality though, whereas with Pippen I think it's both basketball ability wise and his personality. I do think his game might make Pippen a better #2 than Kyrie though (but it depends on what role they have to fill in that #2 slot).
    With Kyrie it’s both. Not only is it a personality thing, his impact just isn’t as high in the court. He also needs to be a #2 if we’re going there.

    In either case, Pippen is better, so it’s a pretty bad argument.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Love’s stock did fall when he went to Cleveland, but it was never as high as you’re making out. He was never considered top 5 or the best PF. This is revisionist history.
    I don't know, I thought he was in the discussion for top 5 and did think he was the best PF and I think most publications had him at around 5-7 at the time (but this is based on memory so I could be wrong).

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I’m mostly just happy I absolutely nailed BigMove’s ulterior motives and agenda on this topic.
    This is laughable man and is frankly a troll post. I'm having a discussion about super teams and Pippen and you guys keep bringing up things not related to this issue. My ulterior motive of something that has zero impact on Kobe or LBJ one way or the other. It's silly. We can always find things to make something make sense. Unless Kobe or LBJ are related to the discussion at hand, I really don't see the need to keep talking about them.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 12:24 PM.

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