Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 8 of 20 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 293
  1. #106
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The Bulls were only contenders because of Pippenís emergence, so itís beyond ridiculous to use the teamís quality as a knock on Pippen when he was why they became that quality in the first place...

    Drexler had an insanely deep and talented team and a big reason why they never won a title was he didnít show up. Ewing only made the Finals because Jordan had retired. I think they were all on the same level.

    It wouldnít be a criticism of LBJ, but by making it seem like all of MJís help wasnít actually that good you can say he carried his team to all these rings whereas LeBron couldnít ever do so.
    The point is that he wasn't a superstar, as is evidenced because superstars on elite teams don't typically miss all-star games. No one is questioning that he contributed to the team emerging into a contender. Not really sure how the team's quality is a knock on Pippen. The team's quality is why it's strange that he didnt make the all-star game because superstars on elite teams are usually rewarded by the league.

    Ewing and Drexler had fairly big seasons though for many years and were the best players on contenders and led their teams to the finals. Pippen never really got close to matching their best seasons, even when MJ was retired. Ewing's Knicks took the bulls to 7 really competitive games. The best Pippen did was literally quitting on his team in the most crucial moments of the playoffs and getting knocked off in the second round. The following season, the bulls were languishing at around .500 prior to MJ coming back semi late in the season. Both Ewing and Drexler led their teams annually to top seeds in their conferences (or contention for a top seed) and they made multiple deep runs. I don't think it's fair to knock Ewing's finals run because MJ retired, we can just as easily downplay the Rockets back-to-backs and say they only won them because MJ retired and do the same for Duncan's 99 title and say they only won because the Bulls were dismantled.

    Some thought Ewing was the best center in the 90s (or at least for a decent chunk) and he was always put into the same category as Hakeem and Robinson (and later Shaq). Drexler was at one point compared to MJ in the early 90s (it didn't last long but still it does speak to how highly Drexler was viewed to even be in the debate for a little while). I dont remember Pippen ever really being put in that type of company (but maybe I just don't fully remember).

    I'd honestly probably rather take a shot at MJ than LBJ if I'm being honest lol. I think MJ had good help, but I don't think it was historically great help. I would classify it as very good to excellent help, but like you said not a super team. I always thought it was more that the team was very well put together more so than that they were extremely talented (at least overall, obviously MJ and Pippen were great players).
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 02:39 AM.

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    41,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    The point is that he wasn't a superstar, as is evidenced because superstars on elite teams don't typically miss all-star games. No one is questioning that he contributed to the team emerging into a contender. Not really sure how the team's quality is a knock on Pippen. The team's quality is why it's strange that he didnt make the all-star game because superstars on elite teams are usually rewarded by the league.

    Ewing and Drexler had fairly big seasons though for many years and were the best players on contenders and led their teams to the finals. Pippen never really got close to matching their best seasons, even when MJ was retired. Ewing's Knicks took the bulls to 7 really competitive games. The best Pippen did was literally quitting on his team in the most crucial moments of the playoffs and getting knocked off in the second round. The following season, the bulls were languishing at around .500 prior to MJ coming back semi late in the season. Both Ewing and Drexler led their teams annually to top seeds in their conferences (or contention for a top seed) and they made multiple deep runs. I don't think it's fair to knock Ewing's finals run because MJ retired, we can just as easily downplay the Rockets back-to-backs and say they only won them because MJ retired and do the same for Duncan's 99 title and say they only won because the Bulls were dismantled.

    Some thought Ewing was the best center in the 90s (or at least for a decent chunk) and he was always put into the same category as Hakeem and Robinson (and later Shaq). Drexler was at one point compared to MJ in the early 90s (it didn't last long but still it does speak to how highly Drexler was viewed to even be in the debate for a little while). I dont remember Pippen ever really being put in that type of company (but maybe I just don't fully remember).

    I'd honestly probably rather take a shot at MJ than LBJ if I'm being honest lol. I think MJ had good help, but I don't think it was historically great help. I would classify it as very good to excellent help, but like you said not a super team. I always thought it was more that the team was very well put together more so than that they were extremely talented (at least overall, obviously MJ and Pippen were great players).
    1). Then by your own logic they are on the same level as Pippen because they both missed the All-Star game in 1987.

    2). I think itís strange your entire argument for why he wasnít a superstar rests on a single All-Star game at the beginning of their run.

    3). No one but delusion Knicks fans thought Ewing was on Hakeem or Shaqís level.

    4). Yes you are not remembering Pippen being in that type of company. He made the Dream Team, he was named to the 50 greatest players team. He was very highly thought of.

    In fact, he was so highly thought of he finished higher in MVP voting than Ewing ever did (3rd), and he had more top 10 MVP finishes than Drexler ever had.

    He was absolutely thought of as on their level. You just donít remember.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7,926
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The Bulls were only contenders because of Pippenís emergence, so itís beyond ridiculous to use the teamís quality as a knock on Pippen when he was why they became that quality in the first place...

    Drexler had an insanely deep and talented team and a big reason why they never won a title was he didnít show up. Ewing only made the Finals because Jordan had retired. I think they were all on the same level.

    It wouldnít be a criticism of LBJ, but by making it seem like all of MJís help wasnít actually that good you can say he carried his team to all these rings whereas LeBron couldnít ever do so.
    Ding Ding Ding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Wade was better than Pippen, AD is better than Pippen. Kyrie is arguably better than Pippen and before having to stand around and watch LBJ James Harden the game, Love was better than Pippen. Neither MJ nor kobe ever had a 3rd star anywhere near the caliber of players LBJ has had and it's not even close.
    Surprised he didnít say Bosh is better than Pippen.


    LBJ was never a Pippen. Kobe was. But somehow those titles carry equal weight.
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 06-16-2021 at 04:46 AM.

  4. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    41,586
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Ding Ding Ding.

    Surprised he didnít say Bosh is better than Pippen.

    LBJ was never a Pippen. Kobe was. But somehow those titles carry equal weight.
    Wow. BigMoves actually said Kyrie and Love were better than Pippen?

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7,926
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Wow. BigMoves actually said Kyrie and Love were better than Pippen?
    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...player/page243

    Amazing some of the absolute lunacy in that thread. And you take out obvious dupe accounts with some sort of ďLakersĒ in the name and very little posts, and thereís not many who side with him. And a few are just as awful on their points as Bigguní is.

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7,926
    Why we take this guy seriously is beyond me. I donít even think he believes half the **** heís posting but heís gotta keep up the Kobe points.


    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    As for the Pippen vs. Love comparison, Pippen had a championship caliber infrastructure already in place and a group of good players. Love has never had that outside of playing with LBJ so that's an absurd comparison. Pippen has never been able to put up seasons like Love did in Minnesota. The player that LBJ got in Love when Love first arrived is arguably better than any version of Pippen. That version of Love was viewed as AD is right now. He hasn't been that kind of player for a few years now, in part because of injuries and in part because of how he was forced to play alongside LBJ, but that version of Love was a top 5 player in the league. I don't think Pippen ever was a top 5 player at any point in his career.
    I donít remember Pippen not being the same kind of player because he played alongside Jordan but then again I donít remember Love being on ADís level either.
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 06-16-2021 at 05:03 AM.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    parts unknown
    Posts
    59,299

    Critisism of forming super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It doesnít apply in 91 because that was the first year they won a title, they were not yet elite, so your logic doesnít even apply.

    To your player comparison, Iíd put Pippen below D-Rob and Barkley caliber players but on the level of Drexler and Ewing, since neither were true #1ís on a title team. I donít think either were superstars either.

    To the larger point, I wouldnít consider the Bulls a superteam, even if they were superior. To me a superteam is a top team that adds another upper level player or multiple superstars teaming up together. The superteams from before the 00ís were like the 80ís Lakers winning the title and adding the #1 overall pick James Worthy, or the 76ers trading for Moses Malone, stuff like that. The Rockets tried to form a superteam with Hakeem, Barkley and Pippen but they were too old to make it work.

    As for the agenda, just because they arenít involved doesnít mean they canít be part of the agenda. Youíd be surprised the lengths people go to criticize LeBron.
    Saying Pippen was equals with Ewing and Dexler is like saying Ben Simmons is equals with AD or CP3.

    What makes you think Scottie could have successfully been the number 1 option and face of a contending franchise for a decade? Let me guess. He once won a playoff series.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by ewing; 06-16-2021 at 08:29 AM.
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    parts unknown
    Posts
    59,299

    Critisism of forming super-teams

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Wow. BigMoves actually said Kyrie and Love were better than Pippen?
    Love doesnít approach Pippen. When Irving shows up and isnít a cancer heís pretty ****ing good. I wouldnít take him long term bc of the mental/locker room issues but when he is right I think thatís very reasonable. He posted 26 and 6 on 50,40,90 when he played this year.

    I wouldnít take Irving long term but he might be better for a run
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    1). Then by your own logic they are on the same level as Pippen because they both missed the All-Star game in 1987.

    2). I think itís strange your entire argument for why he wasnít a superstar rests on a single All-Star game at the beginning of their run.

    3). No one but delusion Knicks fans thought Ewing was on Hakeem or Shaqís level.

    4). Yes you are not remembering Pippen being in that type of company. He made the Dream Team, he was named to the 50 greatest players team. He was very highly thought of.

    In fact, he was so highly thought of he finished higher in MVP voting than Ewing ever did (3rd), and he had more top 10 MVP finishes than Drexler ever had.

    He was absolutely thought of as on their level. You just donít remember.
    My argument isnt that they're on the same level because they didn't make the all-star game, but more that it's strange that if Pippen was a superstar he wouldnt make the all-star game given that his team was an elite contender in 91. In 87 Ewing was in his second season and I don't know if he had reached superstar level yet. My main argument as to why Pippen wasnt a superstar is because he was pretty limited offensively and you couldn't really run an offense through him where he was going to warp the floor in any significant way and not really comparable to how he warped the floor compared to players like Ewing and Drexler.

    I know Pippen was highly thought of, I just don't remember him being compared to the type of players Ewing and Drexler were compared to. I've seen games and highlights of the early and mid 90s and non-knick announcers will routinely refer to Ewing as the best center in the game or as one of the top 2. I remember some players picking him as the best center as well, maybe Shaq at some point in the mid 90s? I think Shaq did pick Ewing ahead of Robinson for their careers.

    For me, Pippen was more comparable to guys like Reggie Miller, Gary Payton, John Stockton, Chris Mullen (who was also on the dream team), Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Mchale, Dumars, and Kemp than to the other guys I've mentioned. That's all to say I considered Pippen a true, great #2, whereas I considered Ewing and Drexler #1s. Maybe I'm underrating Pippen, but I wouldnt want to build around him personally with him as my #1 guy. I would feel comfortable building around Drexler or Ewing as my #1s though
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 10:00 AM.

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Wow. BigMoves actually said Kyrie and Love were better than Pippen?
    I said they were comparable when Love was in Minnesota. Difficult to know how Love's career would've turned out if it weren't for all the injuries, but he was having monster seasons during that time. I do think Kyrie is comparable to Pippen and when he's actually playing and not causing issues, I think he's a better #1 option (mostly because Pippen was fairly limited offensively). I see Pippen more of a true #2 so I put him in the same category as guys are excellent #2s.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Ding Ding Ding.



    Surprised he didnít say Bosh is better than Pippen.


    LBJ was never a Pippen. Kobe was. But somehow those titles carry equal weight.
    Again, I consider Bosh and Pippen to be comparable. Pippen had the better career and probably gets the nod over these guys because of his great defense, but I really don't know how far Pippen goes if he's never in Chicago. Not sure what Kobe has to do with this conversation or LBJ, but for what it's worth I don't think Kobe was ever a Pippen because Pippen was never a true #1, and Kobe was. During titles, Kobe was in the top 5 (might've been just outside of it in 2000), whereas Pippen was just inside the top 10 or outside of it. I think the highest Pippen probably ever reached was maybe top 8 but there were usually about 7 or 8 other guys that a strong argument could be made for them (and I'm actually not convinced that he was better than some of those guys on those seasons). At any rate, maybe try to stay on topic. This thread isnt about LBJ or Kobe
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 10:02 AM.

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...player/page243

    Amazing some of the absolute lunacy in that thread. And you take out obvious dupe accounts with some sort of ďLakersĒ in the name and very little posts, and thereís not many who side with him. And a few are just as awful on their points as Bigguní is.
    What a doofus, I have no dupe accounts. You do seem to have some kind of obvious obsession with me though. I'm flattered I guess, but it is kind of creepy dude
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 09:51 AM.

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Why we take this guy seriously is beyond me. I donít even think he believes half the **** heís posting but heís gotta keep up the Kobe points.


    I donít remember Pippen not being the same kind of player because he played alongside Jordan but then again I donít remember Love being on ADís level either.
    It's funny because analyses have been reported and articles written by ESPN showing the considerable decrease Love had when he teamed up with LBJ, as well as others such as Wade and Bosh. Yes, AD did not have that kind of drop and that was one of the things I wanted to see (before moving LBJ up) and I did last season, but again, this isn't about your crush and obsession with LBJ. You might not remember how highly Love was thought of at the time because it might not suit your agenda, but Love was considered the best PF and the most highly sought after young player when he went to the cavs (just as AD was at one point). AD might've been thought of more highly, but Love was considered a massive pickup by the cavs. At any rate, way to derail the discussion...once again, try to stay on topic
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 09:58 AM.

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,320
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Love doesnít approach Pippen. When Irving shows up and isnít a cancer heís pretty ****ing good. I wouldnít take him long term bc of the mental/locker room issues but when he is right I think thatís very reasonable. He posted 26 and 6 on 50,40,90 when he played this year.

    I wouldnít take Irving long term but he might be better for a run
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I always thought of Ewing and Drexler as #1s so I am surprised to see people arguing that they were similar to Pippen.
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 10:05 AM.

  15. #120
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    parts unknown
    Posts
    59,299
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I always thought of Ewing and Drexler as #1s so I am surprised to see people arguing that they were similar to Pippen.
    Itís a bad comparison


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

Page 8 of 20 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •