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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    And thatís why heís a waste of time. At least now he knows that he exposed himself first hand and by his own post where he thought he was dragging us.


    BigMoves3 got hoisted by his own petard and itís hilarious. And it proves heís been disingenuous this whole time and proves he earns no respect. So with that, thereís no need to continue to correspond to his proven trolling.
    It's pretty hilarious that you don't realize that what you did is completely wrong, as in it does not show what you think it does. You are misreading the quote that you cited....as I said, there is a post on just this topic about Phil I made a few days ago that addresses just this point. Any confusion about that point shouldve been clear with a followup post I had in responding to valade about how Phil belong in the discussion of GOAT coach, but you purposely ignored that because it literally would tank the entire point you are trying to make

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It matters how love was viewed at the time because that was the peak of Love's career (unless he makes a crazy comeback) and that is what was being referenced. I use lists when discussing how players are viewed, because they provide evidence for that. I don't really use lists to determine where a player actually ranks. The issue is that there is a a lot of subtlety in my views and you guys are too busy trying to divert the conversation to point out logical inconsistencies (when they are not inconsistent at all, there is just a bunch of context that completely gets ignored). Either engage with the points I am making or don't bother responding to my posts.
    If someone is clearly overhyped for a brief period due to role/system and his entire rest of career shows it, most don't just focus on that brief period to claim a player is this guy that can carry etc. when it never happened. If lists provide evidence then where Scottie is ranked is much higher than you have been saying based on the evidence.

    The issue is actually there are a lot of logical inconsistencies in the points you make. Those have to be addressed lol. You pick and choose when stats or lists or anything matters and boil it down to your subjective view on what makes a superstar. There is no clear objective way to do things I know I know we always go through this but people can note ones with illogical inconsistencies still. If others stats/rankings of players/data matter as much as yours then there has been far more evidence against a lot of your points. You always write off those aspects to twist certain short time periods etc. and use semantics around a term to give credit to fit your narratives though.

    The idea young Kobe, Kyrie, Love, Bosh are basically superstars and Pippen isn't really just seems way off base for multiple reasons given and shown. The term superstar mattering for Kobe's early rings but not Pippens seems like a big factor in why all this happens though. You can call others homers or say it's a diversion all you want but the illogical inconsistency in your arguments to make these points is the issue and it's easy to point out.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    You don't, it only happens because you guys aren't engaging in discussion in good faith.
    I respond in good faith to any posts made in good faith. I have yet to see one.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    You literally said ďwhere did I say Phil wasnít a good coach?Ē I showed you where.

    End.
    Maybe the problem is you struggle to read things man. Saying he wasnt a great basketball coach is night and day from saying he wasnt a good coach. It's in the actual quite you cited. Moreover, as I just noted, I was referring to basketball coach in terms of Xs and Os. If you're going to quote someone at least get the quote correct lol

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It's pretty hilarious that you don't realize that what you did is completely wrong, as in it does not show what you think it does. You are misreading the quote that you cited....as I said, there is a post on just this topic about Phil I made a few days ago that addresses just this point. Any confusion about that point shouldve been clear with a followup post I had in responding to valade about how Phil belong in the discussion of GOAT coach, but you purposely ignored that because it literally would tank the entire point you are trying to make
    And I quoted that post of yours. You said he was good at managing egos. You keep saying that we are changing up the context yet thatís exactly what you did!

    When you wanted to downplay Jackson, you talked **** about him. Then, you wanted to beef him up when Pippen was the #1 in saying that thatís one of the main reasons why the Bulls were great that year. When itís about MJs or Kobeís success, Phil wasnít a great coach, he could just manage egos. When itís about the year Pippen was #1, Phil was one of the reasons why.


    Youíre either posting in bad faith or youíre not smart enough to realize that youíre talking out of both sides of your mouth and honestly, either way is **** posting. I would tell you to stop **** posting but thatís all that you seem to be capable of so just stop posting.

    Since you seem to have more time in the summers for this drivel I assume youíre a teacher of some sort? Do you teach your students this garbage?

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No, it's not use trying to find inconsistencies, it's you literally being inconsistent. This is what you literally said about Phil Jackson:

    but was not even a great basketball coach.


    Like I said, you change your argument and perception to fit whatever new argument you're one. You do it all the time. I'm sure you have some explanation for this, but it's getting a little hard for everyone to hear them when you do it so much.
    Yes, and I was pretty clear what I was referring to and I know that you didnt miss the follow-up post where I responded saying that he belonged in the GOAT coach discussion. Why isnt that quoted? It was like directly in followup to your post about e underrating Phil. It was probably the post right after this one. And again, not being a great basketball coach does not preclude one from being a great coach. Larry Brown was a great basketball coach (I'm referring to Xs and Os, which I was clear about) but not necessarily a great coach at handling personalities, which Phil was great with. There are different aspect to coaching and perhaps that wasnt entirely clear in the quote you cited, but with the followup quote it should have been and if there was any confusion you could've simply asked, but that wasnt really your intention so it makes sense why that didnt occur.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Maybe the problem is you struggle to read things man. Saying he wasnt a great basketball coach is night and day from saying he wasnt a good coach. It's in the actual quite you cited. Moreover, as I just noted, I was referring to basketball coach in terms of Xs and Os. If you're going to quote someone at least get the quote correct lol
    More talking out of both sides of your mouth. Itís amazing that sometimes when you get caught, you try to tell the other poster that they have a comprehension problem yet you continually donít see how youíre doing exactly what Gopher just noted. Itís embarrassing.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    And I quoted that post of yours. You said he was good at managing egos. You keep saying that we are changing up the context yet thatís exactly what you did!

    When you wanted to downplay Jackson, you talked **** about him. Then, you wanted to beef him up when Pippen was the #1 in saying that thatís one of the main reasons why the Bulls were great that year. When itís about MJs or Kobeís success, Phil wasnít a great coach, he could just manage egos. When itís about the year Pippen was #1, Phil was one of the reasons why.


    Youíre either posting in bad faith or youíre not smart enough to realize that youíre talking out of both sides of your mouth and honestly, either way is **** posting. I would tell you to stop **** posting but thatís all that you seem to be capable of so just stop posting.

    Since you seem to have more time in the summers for this drivel I assume youíre a teacher of some sort? Do you teach your students this garbage?
    I had already addressed this point in a previous post a few days ago so go ahead and look that up if you'd like. Phil was great at managing players more so than he was with actual strategy and Xs and Os. Overall he was a great coach, but not a great basketball coach (as in coaching actual basketball). That doesnt make him a bad coach either. He was a great coach though (to say it again), but not the GOAT imo

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I respond in good faith to any posts made in good faith. I have yet to see one.
    Good so you're on record saying that you don't respond in good faith. Here is a thought, maybe you're assuming others are posting in bad faith and that leads you to post in bad faith. You know what they say about assuming though. This reminds me of people who betray others because they thought they were going to be betrayed or they cheat because they thought they would be cheated on.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    More talking out of both sides of your mouth. Itís amazing that sometimes when you get caught, you try to tell the other poster that they have a comprehension problem yet you continually donít see how youíre doing exactly what Gopher just noted. Itís embarrassing.
    Nope not at all. It was pretty clear from my posts what I meant and like I said, there is a post I made about this a few days ago in the laker forum and one poster compared Phil to the LA Dodgers manager Dave Roberts (in that they were both great at managing players, but not great with the Xs and Os). It predates all of this so feel free to look it up if you're so inclined.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I had already addressed this point in a previous post a few days ago so go ahead and look that up if you'd like. Phil was great at managing players more so than he was with actual strategy and Xs and Os. Overall he was a great coach, but not a great basketball coach (as in coaching actual basketball). That doesnt make him a bad coach either. He was a great coach though (to say it again), but not the GOAT imo
    Then why was he a cited reason for why Pippen led that MJ-less team further than the other guys mentioned? Donít worry about it, though. I know the answer.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Nope not at all. It was pretty clear from my posts what I meant and like I said, there is a post I made about this a few days ago in the laker forum and one poster compared Phil to the LA Dodgers manager Dave Roberts (in that they were both great at managing players, but not great with the Xs and Os). It predates all of this so feel free to look it up if you're so inclined.
    Nope. You got caught. Red-handed and we all saw it. Your narrative changing caught up with you and now youíre trying to do what you naturally do and weasel your way out of it.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Good so you're on record saying that you don't respond in good faith. Here is a thought, maybe you're assuming others are posting in bad faith and that leads you to post in bad faith. You know what they say about assuming though. This reminds me of people who betray others because they thought they were going to be betrayed or they cheat because they thought they would be cheated on.
    Only you could take "I respond in good faith" and say "saying that you don't respond in good faith".

    I am legitimately trying to get you to see how contradictory your logic is.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    If someone is clearly overhyped for a brief period due to role/system and his entire rest of career shows it, most don't just focus on that brief period to claim a player is this guy that can carry etc. when it never happened. If lists provide evidence then where Scottie is ranked is much higher than you have been saying based on the evidence.

    The issue is actually there are a lot of logical inconsistencies in the points you make. Those have to be addressed lol. You pick and choose when stats or lists or anything matters and boil it down to your subjective view on what makes a superstar. There is no clear objective way to do things I know I know we always go through this but people can note ones with illogical inconsistencies still. If others stats/rankings of players/data matter as much as yours then there has been far more evidence against a lot of your points. You always write off those aspects to twist certain short time periods etc. and use semantics around a term to give credit to fit your narratives though.

    The idea young Kobe, Kyrie, Love, Bosh are basically superstars and Pippen isn't really just seems way off base for multiple reasons given and shown. The term superstar mattering for Kobe's early rings but not Pippens seems like a big factor in why all this happens though. You can call others homers or say it's a diversion all you want but the illogical inconsistency in your arguments to make these points is the issue and it's easy to point out.
    I didnt say those other guys were superstars. If you remember our discussion, I said they were borderline guys, much like Pippen was (meaning in between stars and superstars but not quite). Young Kobe doesnt belong there (at least not after 2000, a case can be made in 2000 that he does). I've explained that Pippen never came close to reaching what Kobe did in 01 or any point thereafter. The most comparable season is probably Pippen's 94 season to Kobe's 00 season, but then again, Pippen didn't win a title in 94 and Kobe was still moderately better...after that. it stops being comparable (but again going back to rehashing the same points is pointless).

    I focus on that short term period, because that was the short term period we were referring to in the discussion you are referencing. I was making the comparison between Love in minny. Yes, after that he dropped off, but injuries were a big part, as were playing a completely different role and being the 3rd option, as were probably his mental health issues. That basically becomes a hindsight change of opinion though. In 2014, that is not how we saw Love or at least not how I saw him or how most others saw him (it seems you weren't a big fan and maybe you saw something others didnt, since you saw him play nightly, but the general perception was that this guy was going to be an amazing player and had he just kept doing the same thing he would have).
    Last edited by Big Moves03; 06-16-2021 at 04:23 PM.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Only you could take "I respond in good faith" and say "saying that you don't respond in good faith".

    I am legitimately trying to get you to see how contradictory your logic is.
    You literally said that you havent seen any posts in good faith, indicating that you are not responding in good faith lol

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