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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Okay, what about Ewing? The thing is that the league rewards being on winning teams and Pippen was on the defending champs and the most popular team at the time so it's odd that he would get passed up that many times. We'll never know, but I think that if we swap out Drexler with Pippen in those years, he makes All-NBA everyone one of those seasons.
    Pippen made as many All-NBA teams as Ewing and actually made more All-NBA 1st teams, but I don't think it's a wholly fair comparison because the competition for All-NBA teams among Centers in those years was insane.

    Yes, the league rewards winning teams, like the Finals appearing Blazers or Knicks, so it's odd the best player on title contending teams would also get passed up that many times.

    Like I said, your argument suffers from inconsistent logic.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    So which is it? Or does it ……..change to fit your narrative?
    Yes, as in a pure basketball coach as in coaching the Xs and Os. Why don't you highlight where I said he was great for coaching the types of teams he had or why don't you cite where I said he belongs in the discussion for GOAT coach? This is what I'm talking about. It's frankly bs that you guys do this sort of thing and can't actually engage in real basketball talk. It amounts to misrepresenting something while ignoring the context in which it was said simply to say "see there's an agenda" and "inconsistencies"

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    And you shouldn’t try to “keep track of the context” if you’re being truthful and sincere.

    I honestly think that he doesn’t think he’s being disingenuous by changing the context and narrative to pump up his main goal.
    The context matter to everything, regardless of the situation.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    It matters how love was viewed at the time because that was the peak of Love's career (unless he makes a crazy comeback) and that is what was being referenced. I use lists when discussing how players are viewed, because they provide evidence for that. I don't really use lists to determine where a player actually ranks. The issue is that there is a a lot of subtlety in my views and you guys are too busy trying to divert the conversation to point out logical inconsistencies (when they are not inconsistent at all, there is just a bunch of context that completely gets ignored). Either engage with the points I am making or don't bother responding to my posts.
    Except in the case of Pippen, where I showed you the lists of how he was viewed and you tried to argue he wasn't viewed that way anyway.

    The problem is your context is logically inconsistent. For example, Pippen doesn't deserve to be a superstar but Drexler does because he was beat out for All-NBA teams by inferior players despite Drexler actually being beaten out more for All-NBA teams by inferior players.

    That isn't context, that is contradictory logic.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    I don't do that, you guys are just busy trying to find inconsistencies and can't keep track of the context. Just a little while ago you used my Phil Jackson argument to do this, but it was incorrect, because I never said Phil wasn't a great coach, simply that he was overrated as the GOAT coach. It's an endless thing with you guys. Honestly, I think you guys are projecting in that you are not engaging in discussion in good faith and that's why you guys play these games and almost always divert the topic into things that are not related and why we end up discussing points that are irrelevant to what is actually being discussed.
    No, it's not use trying to find inconsistencies, it's you literally being inconsistent. This is what you literally said about Phil Jackson:

    but was not even a great basketball coach.


    Like I said, you change your argument and perception to fit whatever new argument you're one. You do it all the time. I'm sure you have some explanation for this, but it's getting a little hard for everyone to hear them when you do it so much.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes, as in a pure basketball coach as in coaching the Xs and Os. Why don't you highlight where I said he was great for coaching the types of teams he had or why don't you cite where I said he belongs in the discussion for GOAT coach? This is what I'm talking about. It's frankly bs that you guys do this sort of thing and can't actually engage in real basketball talk. It amounts to misrepresenting something while ignoring the context in which it was said simply to say "see there's an agenda" and "inconsistencies"
    You literally contradicted yourself. You seem to do that a lot and this time it’s written down. By you. Plain as day.

  7. #202
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    At least now he can see where he’s getting exposed. We’ve all seen him do this type of garbage for years now. Proves that everything he’s said he’s said with a motive.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Yes, as in a pure basketball coach as in coaching the Xs and Os. Why don't you highlight where I said he was great for coaching the types of teams he had or why don't you cite where I said he belongs in the discussion for GOAT coach? This is what I'm talking about. It's frankly bs that you guys do this sort of thing and can't actually engage in real basketball talk. It amounts to misrepresenting something while ignoring the context in which it was said simply to say "see there's an agenda" and "inconsistencies"
    It's frankly BS that we have to spend all this time wondering if what you say is what you mean.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Pippen made as many All-NBA teams as Ewing and actually made more All-NBA 1st teams, but I don't think it's a wholly fair comparison because the competition for All-NBA teams among Centers in those years was insane.

    Yes, the league rewards winning teams, like the Finals appearing Blazers or Knicks, so it's odd the best player on title contending teams would also get passed up that many times.

    Like I said, your argument suffers from inconsistent logic.
    Right but Ewing wasn't passed over for guys like Ronny Seikaly or Vlade. Both seasons that Drexler reached the finals he made an all-NBA team, but that's not the case with Pippen. Ewing didn't make it in 94, but they ended up picking Shaq over him. My point with bringing those up was that guys who aren't super stars were regualrly picked ahead of Pippen and they weren't even in particularly winning teams some seasons.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    No, i said I bring up lists when we are discussing how a player was viewed at the time. A list is going to be a general representation of how players were viewed. Potential does factor in really big into this because results are not always clear, especially when guys get hurt and their careers change because of it. Love for example showed the potential to be incredibly elite (and put up those results for a few seasons in Minnesota), but it never fully materialized (maybe due to injury, maybe due to being the 3rd option, maybe some combination). Had he put up another 4-6 seasons like he did in 2014 he would be in a completely different tier, imo. I'm also not a statistician, I'm a scientist and I have expertise in statistics (as all scientists do).
    How is a stats guy more interested in potential? That’s what I’m getting at.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    You literally contradicted yourself. You seem to do that a lot and this time it’s written down. By you. Plain as day.
    Again, why didnt you cite the quote where I said he belongs in the GOAT discussion for coaches (there is a post I made in the laker forum several days ago about this topic which predates any of this, btw). It's also in the quote that you cited where I literally say Phil was great for the teams he coached but you didnt bother bolding that. As I noted, there is nuance and subtly to my positions but you guys miss that because you're too busy trying to basically clown around.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It's frankly BS that we have to spend all this time wondering if what you say is what you mean.
    And that’s why he’s a waste of time. At least now he knows that he exposed himself first hand and by his own post where he thought he was dragging us.


    BigMoves3 got hoisted by his own petard and it’s hilarious. And it proves he’s been disingenuous this whole time and proves he earns no respect. So with that, there’s no need to continue to correspond to his proven trolling.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It's frankly BS that we have to spend all this time wondering if what you say is what you mean.
    You don't, it only happens because you guys aren't engaging in discussion in good faith.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Right but Ewing wasn't passed over for guys like Ronny Seikaly or Vlade. Both seasons that Drexler reached the finals he made an all-NBA team, but that's not the case with Pippen. Ewing didn't make it in 94, but they ended up picking Shaq over him. My point with bringing those up was that guys who aren't super stars were regualrly picked ahead of Pippen and they weren't even in particularly winning teams some seasons.
    Well the All-NBA teams are picked before the Finals and the only time he wasn't picked for an All-NBA team was the Bulls first finals run when, after that he was picked the other 5 times, which is as many All-NBA teams as Drexler ever made.

    I understand your point, it's a bad one because the same also applies to Drexler. Again, you can't say Pippen doesn't belong on Drexler's level for a problem Drexler literally also had. He was passed over on All-NBA teams by guys who aren't superstars regularly and they weren't even on particularly winning teams.

    How are you not getting that is inconsistent logic?

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Moves03 View Post
    Again, why didnt you cite the quote where I said he belongs in the GOAT discussion for coaches (there is a post I made in the laker forum several days ago about this topic which predates any of this, btw). It's also in the quote that you cited where I literally say Phil was great for the teams he coached but you didnt bother bolding that. As I noted, there is nuance and subtly to my positions but you guys miss that because you're too busy trying to basically clown around.
    You literally said “where did I say Phil wasn’t a good coach?” I showed you where.

    End.

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