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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    There were black coaches before the Rooney Rule. Your point could be valid if it were 1965. But its not.
    No, there really werenít. The first modern black coach was hired in 1979. There were only 7 black coaches in modern NFL history until the Rooney rule.

    That means NFL head coaches were somewhere between 97-99% white.

    So itís still a very valid pointÖ

  2. #452
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    We are talking about the evolution of a society here. Things are always very bad for minorities in any industry, until the industry accepts them as equal members. For whatever reason, club owners in all sports did not hire blacks to coach/manage their teams until very recently. Society has grown to accept minorities as equals in these areas. Hopefully, one day, society will evolve to the point where outward appearance won't matter any more. People should not be defined by their physical appearance and maybe one day, everyone will feel this way.

  3. #453
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    Judging how this cultural war is playing out, it ain't going to happen. If it wasn't just about color it would be something else. It's just how humans roll.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No, there really werenít. The first modern black coach was hired in 1979. There were only 7 black coaches in modern NFL history until the Rooney rule.

    That means NFL head coaches were somewhere between 97-99% white.

    So itís still a very valid pointÖ
    No it's not
    You made a absolute statement by saying "but when all the coaches are the same color itís indicative that the results arenít random." This is false. There have been and are minority coaches. So they are not and have not been all coaches of the same color.
    In the abstract you say that color shouldn't matter, but yet it seems that it does to you. What percentages of coaches should be a particular color for you to be satisfied?

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    We are talking about the evolution of a society here. Things are always very bad for minorities in any industry, until the industry accepts them as equal members. For whatever reason, club owners in all sports did not hire blacks to coach/manage their teams until very recently. Society has grown to accept minorities as equals in these areas. Hopefully, one day, society will evolve to the point where outward appearance won't matter any more. People should not be defined by their physical appearance and maybe one day, everyone will feel this way.
    That's why we shouldn't be interviewing coaches based on skin color. It's a step backwards, not forwards.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    No it's not
    You made a absolute statement by saying "but when all the coaches are the same color itís indicative that the results arenít random." This is false. There have been and are minority coaches. So they are not and have not been all coaches of the same color.
    In the abstract you say that color shouldn't matter, but yet it seems that it does to you. What percentages of coaches should be a particular color for you to be satisfied?
    I meant all in a colloquial sense not a strict 100% sense. I will rephrase, when the overwhelming majority of coaches are of the same race itís indicative the results arenít random. There now itís a valid point.

    If you want to act like black coaches had equal opportunity before the Rooney rule because 1% of coaches in history were black, you have problems.

    As for your question, there isnít a specific %, but certainly more than 1%. Now let me ask you, what % of coaches all need to be the same color before you admit there might not be equal opportunity to the profession?

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I meant all in a colloquial sense not a strict 100% sense. I will rephrase, when the overwhelming majority of coaches are of the same race itís indicative the results arenít random. There now itís a valid point.

    If you want to act like black coaches had equal opportunity before the Rooney rule because 1% of coaches in history were black, you have problems.

    As for your question, there isnít a specific %, but certainly more than 1%. Now let me ask you, what % of coaches all need to be the same color before you admit there might not be equal opportunity to the profession?
    They did have equal opportunity. There was no law or rules barring them from doing so. I'm not saying it was equally as easy for everyone to be hired, that will never happen. but they did have the opportunity
    If there isn't a specific %, then what's the problem? Even if it's only 1%, it shouldn't matter.
    None. If all coaches were black I wouldn't bat an eye. And if that were the case and the NFL put forward a rule that whites need to be interviewed before hiring a coach, you would get the same argument from me.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    They did have equal opportunity. There was no law or rules barring them from doing so. I'm not saying it was equally as easy for everyone to be hired, that will never happen. but they did have the opportunity
    If there isn't a specific %, then what's the problem? Even if it's only 1%, it shouldn't matter.
    None. If all coaches were black I wouldn't bat an eye. And if that were the case and the NFL put forward a rule that whites need to be interviewed before hiring a coach, you would get the same argument from me.
    That you think the only thing that prohibits equal opportunity is a law or a rule is troubling. I asked you before if you and Bill Gateís children have an equal opportunity to work for Microsoft corporate and you didnít answer, like because even your realize itís bogus.

    At least you admit it wasnít equally as easy, which is otherwise known as bias and discrimination. So at best your argument is one of semantics. It shouldnít be more difficult to be hired simply because of their skin color, which it was (which you just agreed with), but youíre saying your donít care. Itís not often I see someone admit to being OK with discrimination.

    Iím sorry you feel black people are taking whites peopleís jobs, donít worry, you can still read up on Jim Crow if you get too down about it.

  9. #459
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    Valade, jobs should go to the best candidate, regardless of defining characteristics. There are no white people's jobs, no black people's jobs. There are only jobs.
    It appears that you have a bit of racism in your attitude.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Valade, jobs should go to the best candidate, regardless of defining characteristics. There are no white people's jobs, no black people's jobs. There are only jobs.
    It appears that you have a bit of racism in your attitude.
    Of course jobs should go to the best candidate regardless of race. We have the Rooney rule because that wasnít happening.

    After how badly you got worked in our other conversations, you really want to start talking about this subject with me?

  11. #461
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    Certainly. I have no problem showing your biases and arrogance again.
    You appear to have a bit of racism in your attitude here by saying there are "white jobs".

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Certainly. I have no problem showing your biases and arrogance again.
    You appear to have a bit of racism in your attitude here by saying there are "white jobs".
    Except I didnít say that. I said ďwhite peopleís jobsĒ, as in a job a white person occupies. Not jobs specifically for white people.

    It appears what you do have a problem with is basic English. But think about it for a second, why would the guy arguing black people are under represented in the NFL be arguing NFL jobs are white only jobs?

  13. #463
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    Had I said "black people's jobs" you would have accused me of being a racist.
    Do I think you are racist? No I do not. I said it appears you have some racism in your attitude. Typical for a white person living with white privilege. We white people hold quite an advantage over people of color because of the lack of pigment in our skin, nothing more, nothing less. White people have made the rules for centuries in Western culture and our culture has to evolve beyond this. Hopefully, I will live to see it change, but, at 67 years old now, I fear I will not. You, being younger, may have an opportunity to live in a world without racism. I hope so.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Had I said "black people's jobs" you would have accused me of being a racist.
    Do I think you are racist? No I do not. I said it appears you have some racism in your attitude. Typical for a white person living with white privilege. We white people hold quite an advantage over people of color because of the lack of pigment in our skin, nothing more, nothing less. White people have made the rules for centuries in Western culture and our culture has to evolve beyond this. Hopefully, I will live to see it change, but, at 67 years old now, I fear I will not. You, being younger, may have an opportunity to live in a world without racism. I hope so.
    I would not have accused you of being racist if you said that, the meaning was obvious. But since you now know I wasnít referring to jobs for white people but jobs a white person currently occupies. What about my attitude is racist?

  15. #465
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    Just chill out. I said I do not feel that you are a racist.
    As I said, racism exists in our society today and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. Society must continue to evolve and grow. I want people to achieve based only on their abilities, not based on any outward characteristics.
    Last edited by catman; 07-26-2021 at 11:32 PM.

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