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Thread: Death Penalty

  1. #1
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    Death Penalty

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/12/polit...lty/index.html

    Rep. Ayanna Pressley adds support for push to end death penalty but no sign Biden admin is on board
    Rep. Ayanna Pressley knew that abolishing the death penalty would not be an easy task. In fact, Pressley is aware that urging President Joe Biden to abolish the federal death penalty with a stroke of a pen would only be the beginning.

    "We're asking Biden to do something that's never been done," the Massachusetts Democrat told CNN in an interview Tuesday.

    The Federal Death Penalty Prohibition Act of 2021 -- introduced along with Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin in July 2019 and reintroduced in January -- calls for abolishing the death penalty, stopping the Justice Department from seeking the punishment for future cases and resentencing the now 49 men on death row to life without the possibility of parole.

    I agree with Ayanna Pressley, there should be no death penalty.


    I don't agree with the death penalty, and it's not even because of situations like this..

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/u...-arkansas.html
    4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man’s DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon
    For 22 years, Ledell Lee maintained that he had been wrongly convicted of murder.

    “My dying words will always be, as it has been, ‘I am an innocent man,’” he told the BBC in an interview published on April 19, 2017 — the day before officials in Arkansas administered the lethal injection.

    Four years later, lawyers affiliated with the Innocence Project and the American Civil Liberties Union say DNA testing has revealed that genetic material on the murder weapon — which was never previously tested — in fact belongs to another man. In a highly unusual development for a case in which a person has already been convicted and executed, the new genetic profile has been uploaded to a national criminal database in an attempt to identify the mystery man.
    Last edited by SpecialFNK; 05-13-2021 at 10:01 AM.


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  2. #2
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    We need to eliminate prison for non-violent crime, eliminate the war on drugs, and have prison focus on reform and trying to have the prison sentences be as short as possible.

    After that, if a prisoner is determined that they should NEVER be back in society and we are certain about it I don't know what the "right" move is. I certainly think we should allow lifetime prisoners to opt out of life. Like if someone rapes and murders dozens of people then in prison kills several more, do we really want that person continuing to live? The problem of course is that that sort of situation is very much the exception and much more often the result is less clear and too often clearly bad.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    We need to eliminate prison for non-violent crime, eliminate the war on drugs, and have prison focus on reform and trying to have the prison sentences be as short as possible.

    After that, if a prisoner is determined that they should NEVER be back in society and we are certain about it I don't know what the "right" move is. I certainly think we should allow lifetime prisoners to opt out of life. Like if someone rapes and murders dozens of people then in prison kills several more, do we really want that person continuing to live? The problem of course is that that sort of situation is very much the exception and much more often the result is less clear and too often clearly bad.
    We need to eliminate prison for non-violent crime,……first define non-violent crime.. Pretty much all white collar crime is nin violent. So no penalty for embezzling a mil or so??? If no prison…then what is the penalty.

    eliminate the war on drugs……yeah fine. legalize it all. So long as there are no dfree taxpayer programs, therapies, hospitals etc to take care of the zombies.

    prison focus on reform and trying to have the prison sentences be as short as possible if by 'prison reform"you mean prisoner rehabilitation…well good luck with that. That rarely works.Make sentences as short as possible……how short a term for breaking into your home and robbing it, raping someone, armed robbery??? If the terms are too long now, what will shorter term accomplish???

    When it comes to imprisonment, there are no answers. Northing ever seems to work and your ideas are to eliminate somethings that currently crimes and shorten sentences.

    RE: the death penalty……maybe people that commit violent felonies over and over again should be put out of our misery permanently. After three felonies……you've had your chance at rehab and it hasn't worked. It would be hard to believe that an innocent man was arrested three times. Could be that people reach the point where society would be much better off without them.

    Just a thought,

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    We need to eliminate prison for non-violent crime,……first define non-violent crime.. Pretty much all white collar crime is nin violent. So no penalty for embezzling a mil or so??? If no prison…then what is the penalty.

    eliminate the war on drugs……yeah fine. legalize it all. So long as there are no dfree taxpayer programs, therapies, hospitals etc to take care of the zombies.

    prison focus on reform and trying to have the prison sentences be as short as possible if by 'prison reform"you mean prisoner rehabilitation…well good luck with that. That rarely works.Make sentences as short as possible……how short a term for breaking into your home and robbing it, raping someone, armed robbery??? If the terms are too long now, what will shorter term accomplish???

    When it comes to imprisonment, there are no answers. Northing ever seems to work and your ideas are to eliminate somethings that currently crimes and shorten sentences.

    RE: the death penalty……maybe people that commit violent felonies over and over again should be put out of our misery permanently. After three felonies……you've had your chance at rehab and it hasn't worked. It would be hard to believe that an innocent man was arrested three times. Could be that people reach the point where society would be much better off without them.

    Just a thought,
    You mean a system that doesn't even make a half-***ed attempt to reform people fails all the time? No ****ing way! The prison system in this country is designed to create repeat offenders. It's a profit center for many companies and one of the last areas where they can all but enslave people.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    We need to eliminate prison for non-violent crime,……first define non-violent crime.. Pretty much all white collar crime is nin violent. So no penalty for embezzling a mil or so??? If no prison…then what is the penalty.

    eliminate the war on drugs……yeah fine. legalize it all. So long as there are no dfree taxpayer programs, therapies, hospitals etc to take care of the zombies.

    prison focus on reform and trying to have the prison sentences be as short as possible if by 'prison reform"you mean prisoner rehabilitation…well good luck with that. That rarely works.Make sentences as short as possible……how short a term for breaking into your home and robbing it, raping someone, armed robbery??? If the terms are too long now, what will shorter term accomplish???

    When it comes to imprisonment, there are no answers. Northing ever seems to work and your ideas are to eliminate somethings that currently crimes and shorten sentences.

    RE: the death penalty……maybe people that commit violent felonies over and over again should be put out of our misery permanently. After three felonies……you've had your chance at rehab and it hasn't worked. It would be hard to believe that an innocent man was arrested three times. Could be that people reach the point where society would be much better off without them.

    Just a thought,
    Non-violent crime is crime that does not include violence or a threat of violence. Yes that includes white collar crime. The penalty is money. Garnishing of wages until you have paid back all the money plus a kicker. That is MUCH better than what victims get now and numbers suggest people heavily favor that.

    You do realize that the "zombies" are already being taken care of by taxpayers right?

    Yes, rehabilitation works. What doesn't work is putting people through the extended torture of prison life where you either join a gang and commit more crimes or your life is even worse. The current prison system is VERY good at taking light weight criminals and making them heavy weight criminals.

    There are answers for imprisonment. We have WAY WAY WAY more than any society in history in prison.

    You should like this part: Biden is the primary architect of the laws that have put so many people in prison. He turned 87 (IIRC) misdemeanors into felonies, 3 strikes laws, and mandatory minimums, as well as ramping up the penalties for the war on drugs. Letting them out and rolling back those changes should really bother him.

    I've been arrested more than 3 times and was only guilty once ... of a non-paid traffic ticket I didn't know about before I moved to another state for several years. I guess I should be put down.

    Just a thought.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Non-violent crime is crime that does not include violence or a threat of violence. Yes that includes white collar crime. The penalty is money. Garnishing of wages until you have paid back all the money plus a kicker. That is MUCH better than what victims get now and numbers suggest people heavily favor that.

    You do realize that the "zombies" are already being taken care of by taxpayers right?

    Yes, rehabilitation works. What doesn't work is putting people through the extended torture of prison life where you either join a gang and commit more crimes or your life is even worse. The current prison system is VERY good at taking light weight criminals and making them heavy weight criminals.

    There are answers for imprisonment. We have WAY WAY WAY more than any society in history in prison.

    You should like this part: Biden is the primary architect of the laws that have put so many people in prison. He turned 87 (IIRC) misdemeanors into felonies, 3 strikes laws, and mandatory minimums, as well as ramping up the penalties for the war on drugs. Letting them out and rolling back those changes should really bother him.

    I've been arrested more than 3 times and was only guilty once ... of a non-paid traffic ticket I didn't know about before I moved to another state for several years. I guess I should be put down.

    Just a thought.
    Bold 1……Say hi to Bernie Madoff

    Bod 2……this is true. We need a better system.

    Bold 3……We have WAY WAY WAY more than any society in history that commit cromes

    Bold 4……Go back and re-read (tall order here) i said the death penalty would be applicable to repeat offenders of violent felonies. You had a traffic ticket.

    ……………

    Interesting point……some time ago the city of Tampa was having young people rake leaves in parks, other park work, wash police cars etc. instead of putting them in jail. This seemed to work ……until………the ACLU got involved and pointed out that this amounted to indentured servitude. That was the end of that.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    We need to eliminate prison for non-violent crime, eliminate the war on drugs, and have prison focus on reform and trying to have the prison sentences be as short as possible.

    After that, if a prisoner is determined that they should NEVER be back in society and we are certain about it I don't know what the "right" move is. I certainly think we should allow lifetime prisoners to opt out of life. Like if someone rapes and murders dozens of people then in prison kills several more, do we really want that person continuing to live? The problem of course is that that sort of situation is very much the exception and much more often the result is less clear and too often clearly bad.
    Does that include corruption? What about people like Bernie Maddof?
    What about Embezelment, destruction of evidence or evidence tampering?

    There are ALL SORTS of non-violent crimes that people should be behind bars for.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bold 1……Say hi to Bernie Madoff

    Bod 2……this is true. We need a better system.

    Bold 3……We have WAY WAY WAY more than any society in history that commit cromes

    Bold 4……Go back and re-read (tall order here) i said the death penalty would be applicable to repeat offenders of violent felonies. You had a traffic ticket.

    ……………

    Interesting point……some time ago the city of Tampa was having young people rake leaves in parks, other park work, wash police cars etc. instead of putting them in jail. This seemed to work ……until………the ACLU got involved and pointed out that this amounted to indentured servitude. That was the end of that.
    There is a judge in Ohio, who gives people unusual punishments instead of jail time. The way he gets around it is twofold, he gives people the option of Jail Time, OR whatever cockamamy punishment he wants.
    And also, the constitution prevents cruel AND unusual punishments, that AND is important, a punishment can be cruel, it can be unusual it just can't be both.

  9. #9
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    Executing innocent people is not uncommon. Idk how anyone could support the death penalty given that fact alone.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    Executing innocent people is not uncommon. Idk how anyone could support the death penalty given that fact alone.
    I’m amazed that this has to be explained to folks who otherwise have such a distrust of government.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bold 1……Say hi to Bernie Madoff

    Bod 2……this is true. We need a better system.

    Bold 3……We have WAY WAY WAY more than any society in history that commit cromes

    Bold 4……Go back and re-read (tall order here) i said the death penalty would be applicable to repeat offenders of violent felonies. You had a traffic ticket.

    ……………

    Interesting point……some time ago the city of Tampa was having young people rake leaves in parks, other park work, wash police cars etc. instead of putting them in jail. This seemed to work ……until………the ACLU got involved and pointed out that this amounted to indentured servitude. That was the end of that.
    We also have WAY WAY WAY more laws than any society in history.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bold 1……Say hi to Bernie Madoff

    Bod 2……this is true. We need a better system.

    Bold 3……We have WAY WAY WAY more than any society in history that commit cromes

    Bold 4……Go back and re-read (tall order here) i said the death penalty would be applicable to repeat offenders of violent felonies. You had a traffic ticket.

    ……………

    Interesting point……some time ago the city of Tampa was having young people rake leaves in parks, other park work, wash police cars etc. instead of putting them in jail. This seemed to work ……until………the ACLU got involved and pointed out that this amounted to indentured servitude. That was the end of that.
    Hi Bernie! You're dead!

    We have more criminals because we criminalize more behavior. Having said that it's possible China has passed us in total prisoners, and there it's being called a genocide. Is that what we want to be on par with?

    You started with violence, then you talked just about felonies, then you talked just about being arrested in successive sentences, it's like you were lowering the standards and I've been arrested more than 3 times. Now, none of them were violent, and I was never CHARGED with a felony, but I certainly met the standard for some people to throw away my prospects of becoming a contributing member of society.

    Yes, there are some people society decides should not be out walking around ever again. I say let them choose their way out, and other than that keep them locked up as cheaply as possible until whatever happens happens. I'm not morally opposed to the death penalty, it's the process around it that's broken and untrustworthy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    Does that include corruption? What about people like Bernie Maddof?
    What about Embezelment, destruction of evidence or evidence tampering?

    There are ALL SORTS of non-violent crimes that people should be behind bars for.
    Non-violent means non-violent. Nobody should be behind bars if they don't pose a physical threat to society.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    Executing innocent people is not uncommon. Idk how anyone could support the death penalty given that fact alone.
    That and the extreme cost of executing people is why I'm against it. I have no moral qualms about someone needing to be put down. The problem is the machinery to get there is a mess and can't be trusted.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    Executing innocent people is not uncommon. Idk how anyone could support the death penalty given that fact alone.
    Because there are a lot of rightfully convicted people who deserved the death penalty and were executed or should have been. Timothy McVeigh, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgway, Richard Ramirez, Joel Rifkin, Wayne Williams, Harold Shipman, Andrei Chikatilo, Pedro Lopez, etc. That's just people off the top of my head.

    That just civilians. How about the perpetrators of genocide like Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Hussein, Amin, Enver, etc.

    Look I am against the death penalty but there is a really good case to be made that certain people deserve to be executed.
    Last edited by metswon69; 05-14-2021 at 01:43 AM.

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