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  1. #76
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    This is just one more thing that will hurt America's credibility worldwide. Already there are polls showing most nations trust Russia and China more than the US and why wouldn't they? The US empire essentially behaves like a rogue state, and there is precisely zero chance the Biden administration or any other President will abandon Israel even at great diplomatic cost.

    The world response seems to be fairly uniform, and it just paves the way for the US to further become a pariah state - a fate we frankly have earned over the decades.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    This is just one more thing that will hurt America's credibility worldwide. Already there are polls showing most nations trust Russia and China more than the US and why wouldn't they? The US empire essentially behaves like a rogue state, and there is precisely zero chance the Biden administration or any other President will abandon Israel even at great diplomatic cost.

    The world response seems to be fairly uniform, and it just paves the way for the US to further become a pariah state - a fate we frankly have earned over the decades.
    damn the first time I have agree with you. Now I got to lay down, my head is swimming.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Para 1……no idea as to what you are talking about. Who said this???

    Para 2……it doesn't take all that much to entertain and idiot.
    Of course, you don't and I don't care to search for it to show you and see you weasel out of it.

    No, believe me. You provide comedy gold here. You should go on the road. Don't waste your talent on an idiot like me.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Agreed. Israel is conducting the world’s slowest mass eviction. If you look over time, the amount of land they have commandeered and the amount of Palestinians they have forcefully moved is massive.
    Isreal's Manifest Destiny. The Palestinians are their Indians.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So they're self employed???
    Are you really this clueless about the working poor?
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

    Will Rogers

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    damn the first time I have agree with you. Now I got to lay down, my head is swimming.
    Same.

    The horseshoe theory is bupkis but I think on some issues, foreign policy sometimes being one of them, the "opposite sides" see the same problems. The divergence usually comes from how the problems should be fixed and why they came to be. But whatever. I think if you can cut through the blind nationalism for a single second you can see that most of the world probably thinks our imperialism is much more sinister than the altruistic and morally-righteous narrative we've been fed. We're merely spreading our big juicy freedoms! According to whom!?!?!

    It's probably extra shocking that we agree with him because it's probably really hard to get a lot of Liberals to say what he just said. The fact so many are still at the "Israel has the right to defend itself [and I have nothing to say about the Palestinians really]" is pretty scary. If we can get most Liberals to causes like BLM and indigenous movements, I'm hopeful that we can get them there on Israel/Palestine. All are struggles against connected forms of oppression. (I guess this is when the right-wingers start rolling their eyes again )
    HELLO

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    This is just one more thing that will hurt America's credibility worldwide. Already there are polls showing most nations trust Russia and China more than the US and why wouldn't they? The US empire essentially behaves like a rogue state, and there is precisely zero chance the Biden administration or any other President will abandon Israel even at great diplomatic cost.

    The world response seems to be fairly uniform, and it just paves the way for the US to further become a pariah state - a fate we frankly have earned over the decades.
    Just more evidence that we should be working our international actions through the UN. The UN is toothless because we allow it to be.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Same.

    The horseshoe theory is bupkis but I think on some issues, foreign policy sometimes being one of them, the "opposite sides" see the same problems. The divergence usually comes from how the problems should be fixed and why they came to be. But whatever. I think if you can cut through the blind nationalism for a single second you can see that most of the world probably thinks our imperialism is much more sinister than the altruistic and morally-righteous narrative we've been fed. We're merely spreading our big juicy freedoms! According to whom!?!?!

    It's probably extra shocking that we agree with him because it's probably really hard to get a lot of Liberals to say what he just said. The fact so many are still at the "Israel has the right to defend itself [and I have nothing to say about the Palestinians really]" is pretty scary. If we can get most Liberals to causes like BLM and indigenous movements, I'm hopeful that we can get them there on Israel/Palestine. All are struggles against connected forms of oppression. (I guess this is when the right-wingers start rolling their eyes again )
    Personally, I'm seeing more overlap with blm activists and free Palestine. The right wing is fractured into those who think Israel is our greatest ally and a bunch of truthers who don't like being goyim

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Just more evidence that we should be working our international actions through the UN. The UN is toothless because we allow it to be.
    The UN is toothless because it's a bunk idea, but that's another topic. There's nothing to work through here, internationally or otherwise. Israel will continue their project, the Muslim world will continue to be enflamed, and eventually America won't be able to provide the protection racket any longer. The time for diplomacy was before I was born, I'm afraid. Best we can hope for now is that it doesn't become a worldwide conflagration that our children and grandchildren are immiserated by.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Same.

    The horseshoe theory is bupkis but I think on some issues, foreign policy sometimes being one of them, the "opposite sides" see the same problems. The divergence usually comes from how the problems should be fixed and why they came to be. But whatever. I think if you can cut through the blind nationalism for a single second you can see that most of the world probably thinks our imperialism is much more sinister than the altruistic and morally-righteous narrative we've been fed. We're merely spreading our big juicy freedoms! According to whom!?!?!

    It's probably extra shocking that we agree with him because it's probably really hard to get a lot of Liberals to say what he just said. The fact so many are still at the "Israel has the right to defend itself [and I have nothing to say about the Palestinians really]" is pretty scary. If we can get most Liberals to causes like BLM and indigenous movements, I'm hopeful that we can get them there on Israel/Palestine. All are struggles against connected forms of oppression. (I guess this is when the right-wingers start rolling their eyes again )
    I'm not particularly conservative so I doubt I'm representative of whatever you believe. I'm a moderate who holds some sympathies with the social conservatism of religious conservatives and paleo-conservatives.

    On basically all social issues I'm fairly liberal - however I'm one of those weird liberals who is anti-murder, anti-censorship, and anti-riot so I don't support BLM, antifa, woke culture etc. This tends to confuse the wokerati who are generally accustomed to extreme psychological splitting, due to being mentally ill (hence the being woke stuff). Valade is a good example of this - you're either woke or you're a George W. Bush Republican who wants to torment brown people for the color of their skin, due to innate evilness. I tend to hope these people were molested by Republican uncles or some other environmental explanation, but sadly the truth is media propaganda. I simply do not believe a word of the mainstream corporate media, and guys like valade believe it all. That's probably all it comes down to.
    Last edited by flea; 05-15-2021 at 08:01 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    I'm not particularly conservative so I doubt I'm representative of whatever you believe. I'm a moderate who holds some sympathies with the social conservatism of religious conservatives and paleo-conservatives.

    On basically all social issues I'm fairly liberal - however I'm one of those weird liberals who is anti-murder, anti-censorship, and anti-riot so I don't support BLM, antifa, woke culture etc. This tends to confuse the wokerati who are generally accustomed to extreme psychological splitting, due to being mentally ill (hence the being woke stuff).
    So you’re a Liberal who shares nothing in common with Liberals?

    Who are some Liberals you think are good?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So you’re a Liberal who shares nothing in common with Liberals?

    Who are some Liberals you think are good?
    I'm not interested in discussing much at length with you because it's fruitless.

    However I'll just say this: free speech, due process under the law, equal treatment under the law, etc. - these are all 'liberal' values that I believe in and that the modern left does not. You do not. You may say you think you do maybe, but you don't. You are not liberal. I have a lot more in common with any liberal born before 1950 in all of history than you do.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    I'm not interested in discussing much at length with you because it's fruitless.

    However I'll just say this: free speech, due process under the law, equal treatment under the law, etc. - these are all 'liberal' values that I believe in and that the modern left does not. You do not. You may say you think you do maybe, but you don't. You are not liberal. I have a lot more in common with any liberal born before 1950 in all of history than you do.
    It’s as I suspected, you are a classical liberal, I.e. a Libertarian. You tried to portray yourself as not conservative to ManRam and in actuality you’re basically right down the fairway as a conservative.

    In Fleas world the Liberals are not Liberal. It’s a good thing you’re not interesting in discussing anything with me at length, I’d hate to waste my time talking to an absolute charlatan like you.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It’s as I suspected, you are a classical liberal, I.e. a Libertarian. You tried to portray yourself as not conservative to ManRam and in actuality you’re basically right down the fairway as a conservative.

    In Fleas world the Liberals are not Liberal. It’s a good thing you’re not interesting in discussing anything with me at length, I’d hate to waste my time talking to an absolute charlatan like you.
    I am closer to a socialist than a libertarian. I have probably been the number 1 guy making fun of libertarians on this stupid forum. I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016.

    I am also not the college Republican 'classical liberal' guy. I believe in both strong government regulation and sensible government programs, to be meted out on a case-by-case basis. If unions still existed (public unions are not unions strictly speaking) to any degree I would support them, and would support any organized labor movement.

    But yeah bro, it's woke or broke amirite. Bombing brown people or worshiping them through the civic religion of wokeness. Nothing in between. There has never been anything more important than race, ever. Truly amazing how wokesters like you hoaxed themselves into believing exactly what you probably think you don't believe.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    I am closer to a socialist than a libertarian. I have probably been the number 1 guy making fun of libertarians on this stupid forum. I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016.

    I am also not the college Republican 'classical liberal' guy. I believe in both strong government regulation and sensible government programs, to be meted out on a case-by-case basis. If unions still existed (public unions are not unions strictly speaking) to any degree I would support them, and would support any organized labor movement.

    But yeah bro, it's woke or broke amirite. Bombing brown people or worshiping them through the civic religion of wokeness. Nothing in between. There has never been anything more important than race, ever. Truly amazing how wokesters like you hoaxed themselves into believing exactly what you probably think you don't believe.
    I remember you making fun of the Bernie Bros and calling anyone who supported him a socialist...

    Let me guess, you’ve hated Biden’s first months as President?

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