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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    oh, and as long as we're all calling out offseason targets, i'd go after nick bjugstad. maybe he can bounce back after a few injury/covid/trade shortened seasons to give you 40-ish points and strong possession numbers.

    stick him at 3C, move frost and patrick to the wings permanently, and go from there.
    I'm down with everything you said pretty much. The only thing I do want to point out that a lot of Hart's struggles were a result of what was going on with Sanheim, Myers, and even Provorov to an extent. Braun...man I actually have to say for quite a few games he held his own...I think Hart is going to be an amazing goalie in this league and he is going to be one of the future bright spots in the NHL...we just need to build some on the blueline and, like you said, hope people get it together namely Myers, Sanheim, and Provy. I'm excited to have a full season of York and hopefully Allison too.

  2. #32

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    I'm down with everything you said pretty much. The only thing I do want to point out that a lot of Hart's struggles were a result of what was going on with Sanheim, Myers, and even Provorov to an extent. Braun...man I actually have to say for quite a few games he held his own...I think Hart is going to be an amazing goalie in this league and he is going to be one of the future bright spots in the NHL...we just need to build some on the blueline and, like you said, hope people get it together namely Myers, Sanheim, and Provy. I'm excited to have a full season of York and hopefully Allison too.
    Sadly, that's not really the truth at all. The defense in front of Hart for the most part was slightly above league average. Hart had a really horrendous year. He certainly isn't the 1st young NHL goalie to have the kind of year Hart had. He will be fine moving forward, but just an incredibly frustrating season to watch.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Sadly, that's not really the truth at all. The defense in front of Hart for the most part was slightly above league average. Hart had a really horrendous year. He certainly isn't the 1st young NHL goalie to have the kind of year Hart had. He will be fine moving forward, but just an incredibly frustrating season to watch.
    Yeah, I really don't care what stats you bring up to try to dispute this...anyone who watched any part of last season could tell you that most of Hart's struggles were a result of our defense. Younger goalies tend to let in more softies when they can't rely on the guys in front of them and try to do too much. That said, I fully expect that with Seth Jones and York in the lineup next year, we are looking at a completely different looking team.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Yeah, I really don't care what stats you bring up to try to dispute this...anyone who watched any part of last season could tell you that most of Hart's struggles were a result of our defense. Younger goalies tend to let in more softies when they can't rely on the guys in front of them and try to do too much. That said, I fully expect that with Seth Jones and York in the lineup next year, we are looking at a completely different looking team.
    100%. I dont give a **** what the advanced stats say...last year was not on hart at all. Sure, he was part of the problem but it was mostly the team and the coaches as well.

    The team:
    -played absolutely awful hockey all year long. Defense was garbage, consistently leaving a guy alone in front of hart, constant turnovers, never guarding any person, awful pk, forwards were terrible defensively, etc

    the coaches:
    -one ex: flyers down 5 to the rangers who just scored 3 quick goals in a span of a few minutes. Hart who just spoke with media about confidence issues was put in the 2nd period where the flyers were getting absolutely peppered. The result---->flyers give up a breakaway and the first goal scored on hart to add to his issues.

    the defense was certainly not above league average or we would be in a different situation

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    100%. I dont give a **** what the advanced stats say...last year was not on hart at all. Sure, he was part of the problem but it was mostly the team and the coaches as well.

    The team:
    -played absolutely awful hockey all year long. Defense was garbage, consistently leaving a guy alone in front of hart, constant turnovers, never guarding any person, awful pk, forwards were terrible defensively, etc

    the coaches:
    -one ex: flyers down 5 to the rangers who just scored 3 quick goals in a span of a few minutes. Hart who just spoke with media about confidence issues was put in the 2nd period where the flyers were getting absolutely peppered. The result---->flyers give up a breakaway and the first goal scored on hart to add to his issues.

    the defense was certainly not above league average or we would be in a different situation
    This is exactly my point. You can't tell me you watched last season and believe the Flyers' defense was "Slightly above league average"...It was downright putrid at times. Maybe as a whole they were slightly above league average...but their gaffs were absolutely outrageous and left Hart battling numerous odd man rushes (breakaways, 2 on 1s, 3 on 2s, even a few 2 on 0s....wasnt there a 3 on 0 once?)...They were impossible situations and you can tell Hart was thinking about the cross ice pass and let in a few goals he shouldn't have...Again, I agree Hart was an issue, but it was a result not a root in my opinion.

  7. #37
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    Y'all are free to think whatever y'all like, but you do realize everything you are saying about the defense applies to Hart as well right?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Y'all are free to think whatever y'all like, but you do realize everything you are saying about the defense applies to Hart as well right?
    The defense to start the season was horrendous. Hart was actually playing reasonably well individually. At some point Hart matched the defensive play in front of him.

    After the defensive play improved to adequate, Hart/Elliot never came back around.

    At least that's how I remember it.
    "2008 WORLD ****ING CHAMPIONS"

  9. #39
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    Elliot actually played above and beyond what I expected from him. I find it hard to believe that losing Nisky made the defense that bad.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Y'all are free to think whatever y'all like, but you do realize everything you are saying about the defense applies to Hart as well right?
    The defense doesn't rely on the play of Hart for their performance. When they don't clear the front of the net, leave a guy alone out in front, allow multiple odd man rushes, etc. it DIRECTLY causes Harts job to become harder. The goalie can't cause the opposing team to be alone out in front, have odd man rushes, etc. One thing I realized is when Hart's confidence is right he does NOT allow rebounds. He is like flypaper to the puck and it sticks to him or he directs it to a corner. Once his confidence was shaken, this was no longer the case. His other great attribute is puck tracking, but when the defense leaves players alone in front or allows the puck to remain in the slot, the goalie tends to try to anticipate rather than track when he should be tracking rather than anticipating. Those who have trained as a goalie can understand those differences. That is the number one area I feel he struggled. It opened so many holes.

    One thing that is on Hart is his mental toughness. That, however, can be attributed to his youth. He turns 23 in a month. That will come some with experience. As his confidence decreased the number of holes increased. When a goalie tries to do "too much" they spread their body more without being compact. This leaves holes under the arms, between the legs, against the posts, and causes issues with puck handling (which, in my opinion is Hart's worst attribute lol).

    Again, I am not saying that he holds no blame, but I am saying his struggles were more of a result to a larger issue than him not performing. I think a perfect mixture of horrible defense and some growing pains were to blame. That said, I do think this season was an excellent experience to learn from and grow from. He should be better equipped for future struggles....not immune to them...but to learn how to pull out of these struggles more quickly.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    The defense to start the season was horrendous. Hart was actually playing reasonably well individually. At some point Hart matched the defensive play in front of him.

    After the defensive play improved to adequate, Hart/Elliot never came back around.

    At least that's how I remember it.
    You're not entirely wrong.

  12. #42
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    The way to fix the team is to clear salary and find a way to trade for Eichel without losing Couturier, Provorov, or Hart. Eichel and Couturier centering each of your top 2 lines completely changes this teams outlook.

    Both this and next year's 1st, and prospects like Frost and Brink all need to be on the table. Whatever it takes without destroying the current core.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    The way to fix the team is to clear salary and find a way to trade for Eichel without losing Couturier, Provorov, or Hart. Eichel and Couturier centering each of your top 2 lines completely changes this teams outlook.

    Both this and next year's 1st, and prospects like Frost and Brink all need to be on the table. Whatever it takes without destroying the current core.
    I have an extremely hard time with the Eichel situation. If Buffalo really wants him to wait for a back surgery until after the trade, that's reason for concern at the least for me.

  14. #44
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    Obviously they're going to need to and should do a full medical evaluation of Eichel, but it's not often a player of his caliber at his age becomes available. If you have a top 6-top 9 of say...

    Konecny-Eichel-Farabee
    Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
    Lindblom-Hayes-Laughton

    This is of course assuming Patrick would be a piece in the Eichel deal and JVR is lost in expansion. That's an entirely different looking team. It may be short lived with Couturier and Giroux having 1 year left on their deals, but that looks like a cup team and you figure out the long term cap ramifications later.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Obviously they're going to need to and should do a full medical evaluation of Eichel, but it's not often a player of his caliber at his age becomes available. If you have a top 6-top 9 of say...

    Konecny-Eichel-Farabee
    Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
    Lindblom-Hayes-Laughton

    This is of course assuming Patrick would be a piece in the Eichel deal and JVR is lost in expansion. That's an entirely different looking team. It may be short lived with Couturier and Giroux having 1 year left on their deals, but that looks like a cup team and you figure out the long term cap ramifications later.
    Forwards weren't really the problem. The defense killed this team, I like those lines but it doesn't fix the back end.

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