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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    1- Jokic won't be unanimous selection, there will be votes for Embiid and CP3.

    2 - Using games missed in one of the most condensed seasons ever is lame. In a regular season spacing (using 2018-19 schedule) there would have been 8 rgames missed by Embiid. But in the condensed schedule that's 12 games.

    3 - Point 2 isn't to say that Jokic isn't deserving, but rather don't make the argument that he's the winner because he played more. Let him win on the merits of his play. Having him win on the merits of someone else not playing certainly would cheapen his winning.

    As a side note, am I one of the few that think "lesser" of unanimous MVPs? I think some of the hotly contested MVP races are some of the best MVP's because it means they were really challenged and needed night in and night out. Some of the unanimous feel like there was just no challenge to what's going on.
    It isnít lame at all. If youíre not missing any games in that condensed season itís even more credit to Jokic whoís team would drop significantly in the standings with out him, and is currently playing through an injury.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Jokic has had a great year, no lie. But for better or worse I believe, in the minds of the voters if Harden, LeBron, KD, Embiid etc play as many games as Joker has, it's probably not clear cut that he's the runaway winner.

    It may be a crappy narrative, but for all awards, games played matters.
    Itís a crappy narrative this year because of the condensed and shortened season. I rather hear that Jokics high level of play with the loss of guards around him is why he won than missed games.

    Also people make it out like Jokic has nothing around him and if it werenít for Randle, MPJ might be a MIP leader.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Itís a crappy narrative this year because of the condensed and shortened season. I rather hear that Jokics high level of play with the loss of guards around him is why he won than missed games.

    Also people make it out like Jokic has nothing around him and if it werenít for Randle, MPJ might be a MIP leader.


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    It can be both though, like he played at an extraordinarily high level AND didn't miss games.

    It's not like it is just one or the other. There are tons of players who have played every game this season but aren't doing what Joker is.

    It is also true there are a handful of players with as good, if not better stretches of basketball this season than Joker but due to missing games, have not sustained that level for as long.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Itís a crappy narrative this year because of the condensed and shortened season. I rather hear that Jokics high level of play with the loss of guards around him is why he won than missed games.

    Also people make it out like Jokic has nothing around him and if it werenít for Randle, MPJ might be a MIP leader.


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    Itís both.

    yes he has a good team, but that doesnít mean itís not impressive that theyíre still 4 games out of first place with out their 2nd best player. Also you can say that Porter jr is having a great season but again you can credit Jokic for running the offense and finding him in his spots, getting him going. Jokics play making ability def is something Embiid doesnít have in his arsenal. And something that sets them apart IMO.

  5. #35
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    Joker definitely earned this MVP regardless of who was injured or not. Anyone claiming LeBron or Embiid would have been MVP if not injured is just biased.

    His numbers are just flat out better, and he's kept his team in command regardless of the injuries. Definitely a guy you can fit on any team right now, even running two Centers. He's that good.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Who are we comparing too? If you line him up against other Cs who won mvp heís pretty up there. Name another Center that averaged 8+ assists, while averaging 40% + from the 3, averaging 26 ppg 56% from the field, 85% from the free throw line, while still giving you 10 plus rebounds and a pretty good defensive rating. And heís doing it with out missing games and still leading his team with out its 2nd best player

    Itís easy to just discredit him, but if you take a closer look heís the real unicorn at the C position.
    Willis Reed. He took 47 threes a game there was just no line
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Willis Reed. He took 47 threes a game there was just no line
    I know youíre just kidding but he never averaged more than 2 assists per game.

    Take the challenge, name me an MVP Center that did all the things Jokic does collectively. He truly is a unicorn at his position. His skill set makes him special.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Joker definitely earned this MVP regardless of who was injured or not. Anyone claiming LeBron or Embiid would have been MVP if not injured is just biased.

    His numbers are just flat out better, and he's kept his team in command regardless of the injuries. Definitely a guy you can fit on any team right now, even running two Centers. He's that good.
    Well said.

    Iím not even a Denver fan Iím just giving respect where itís due.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    This is a biased opinion. Just looking at their stats itís obvious Jokic does more to impact the game. How can you say Embiid is clearly better? I would think itís very close but Jokic is the more reliable player and has the more unique skill set.
    Stats don't show the full impact of any player.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Stats don't show the full impact of any player.
    Jokics impact is easy to see. Take him off the Nuggets for 10 games and how many do they win? Theyíre 9-2 with out Murray. Iíd imagine them going 2-10 with out Jokic, everything runs through him.

    With respect to the comparison in this case, Jokics passing and his ability to run the offense is pretty clear by just looking at his simple counting stats. And I was making a case that his skill set alone makes him a special player at his position.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 05-06-2021 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #41
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    Where does Jokicís MVP run rank?

    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I know youíre just kidding but he never averaged more than 2 assists per game.

    Take the challenge, name me an MVP Center that did all the things Jokic does collectively. He truly is a unicorn at his position. His skill set makes him special.
    He a extraordinary and one of a kind bc of his passing itís also a bogus challenge. A center hasnít won it in about 20 years. It was a different game. Players didnít take 3s volume. Forget centers


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He a extraordinary and one of a kind bc of his passing itís also a bogus challenge. A center hasnít won it in about 20 years. It was a different game. Players didnít take 3s volume. Forget centers


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    Makes it even more note worthy IMO, in a era where the 5 position is almost dead, heíll be the first center to win an MVP since Shaq.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Makes it even more note worthy IMO, in a era where the 5 position is almost dead, heíll be the first center to win an MVP since Shaq.
    Regardless you shouldnít look at the stats you are using in comparison to MVPs who played in a different era and use them to put him at a different level


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Regardless you shouldnít look at the stats you are using in comparison to MVPs who played in a different era and use them to put him at a different level


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    Itís not about the stats itís about the skill set, the stats are indicative of his ability.

    If your comparing him to MVP caliper centers of the past, what metric would you prefer to use other than stats. The stats are simply showing that this guy can do things those other centers didn't even attempt in their playing days. A guy like Walton, or Divac had the vision, and passing ability, but weren't shooting 40% from 3. That's what I'm getting at here. You can find players that did some of the things Jokic does, but its hard to find one that does everything he does collectively. Some people here weren't old enough to watch Ewing let alone other great C`s of the past, so you cant simply rely on the eye test, but even then if you simply watch Jokic you know hes different. That's my point, the guys a unicorn, hes something you haven't seen a the position before and I think we have to acknowledge that. Hes showing that even in this era you can have an elite 5 who does more than just rebound, and set screens, or protect the rim. He impacts the game in almost every way. You dont need stats, just watch the guy play and its apparent.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 05-07-2021 at 12:09 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Itís not about the stats itís about the skill set, the stats are indicative of his ability.
    i legit pray the finals is sixers vs nuggets just to see embiid dominate him on both ends and people realize he isnt the best player which means he isnt the most valuable.

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