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  1. #1621
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    Hey KB, when you were told about the Hosmer/ Abrams deal did u hear anything about what we were sending back? Step bro came through with a little more info on all fronts. SD wants a 1 legit starter like Taillon/German/ Nestor type back along with 1 of our higher ceiling pitching specs like Schmidt/ Vasquez/ Devi. He said they are willing to give up a top spec to get rid of Hosmer but to give up Abrams/Campusano they want pitching back.

    He also said what they really like about Abrams is that he hits LHed, they don't think the defense is as good as Peraza's. Sounds like the plan would be to either to package Peraza or Abrams for something else big.

    They are legit thrilled about Arias and according to bro they think he could have the best tools/ highest ceiling of all their current SS specs including Volpe.

    Speaking of Volpe, i was told their is some question about his arm strength being enough to make throws deep in the hole. It's not that they don't think he could stick at SS but it seems like they believe he will end up at 2nd or 3rd.

    Sounds like they want 2 specs back from Mia a pitcher and an OFer.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Hey KB, when you were told about the Hosmer/ Abrams deal did u hear anything about what we were sending back? Step bro came through with a little more info on all fronts. SD wants a 1 legit starter like Taillon/German/ Nestor type back along with 1 of our higher ceiling pitching specs like Schmidt/ Vasquez/ Devi. He said they are willing to give up a top spec to get rid of Hosmer but to give up Abrams/Campusano they want pitching back.

    He also said what they really like about Abrams is that he hits LHed, they don't think the defense is as good as Peraza's. Sounds like the plan would be to either to package Peraza or Abrams for something else big.

    They are legit thrilled about Arias and according to bro they think he could have the best tools/ highest ceiling of all their current SS specs including Volpe.

    Speaking of Volpe, i was told their is some question about his arm strength being enough to make throws deep in the hole. It's not that they don't think he could stick at SS but it seems like they believe he will end up at 2nd or 3rd.

    Sounds like they want 2 specs back from Mia a pitcher and an OFer.
    I didnít hear anything about who was going back cause I heard the Yankees will only take Abrams for his contract. Whether that is to trade Abrams for something bigger or to play him. I donít know but I know they feel he can play SS, 3B, CF and LF so that might open a spot for him. They think his arms too good for second.

    As for your second trade unless Mia is willing to part with Eury Perez then that deal doesnít happen. Iím told the Yankees have made it clear they want Eury is any deal involving Gary.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by knicksballers View Post
    I didnít hear anything about who was going back cause I heard the Yankees will only take Abrams for his contract. Whether that is to trade Abrams for something bigger or to play him. I donít know but I know they feel he can play SS, 3B, CF and LF so that might open a spot for him. They think his arms too good for second.

    As for your second trade unless Mia is willing to part with Eury Perez then that deal doesnít happen. Iím told the Yankees have made it clear they want Eury is any deal involving Gary.
    I'm certainly not saying my info is better than yours, in fact, yours has been proven correct at just about every time. I think whats happening is were hearing from 2 separate parts of the Yanks organization. We've all been told how different factions inside the Yankees are pulling different directions.

    As far as the return for Hosmer/Abrams, I'm just saying what i was told. Hosmers's contract isn't bad enough to give up a top 10 overall spec just to move him. It's 20M next yr and 3 player options for 13m that can be controllable because their are number of ABs to trigger it. If he could get back to playing top notch defense or be defensively like he used to be i don't think it's a horrible fit. I think you put him in the smaller AL East parks, especially playing half his games in YS, having more protection in the lineup he would be at minimum a better option than Voit or probably DJ at 1st next yr. Abrams is a hell of a player with all the tools we love, want and need on this team going forward. I wouldn't mind giving up a German and 1 of Schmidt/ Vasquez/ Way. Devi back to get another elite spec that has a chance to play all over. I was told they want and need pitching back and it;s not like they are asking for Monty, Sevy, Holmes or Lo back or even our best pitching specs, if the info is accurate.
    This is a bit of a stretch to think the Yanks would go this far but i wouldn't consider it a bad move to get Abrams, keep Peraza, Volpe, O Cabrera and start shaping them as our next core. Abrams as you have said, they believe he can play all over. CF, LF, SS , 3B. He's an an excellent hitter, great defender, LHed with 80 speed and a plus arm. All 3 of Peraza, Cabrera and Abrams have the tools to play CFer or LF. We actually need a long term and more immediate CF solution than Dom, if he's able to stick in CF. So from what i've seen Peraza is the slightly better defender as SS so stick Abrams in CF. He has the speed, range and arm that would transfer well out there. Keep Peraza at SS where he's expected to be a GG caliber SS as soon as he becomes an MLB regular. Volpe is the best hitter of the bunch IMO, but he doesn't quite have the elite defensive tools that Peraza and Abrams have so put him at 2nd or 3rd like has been talked about. Cabrera becomes a super utility player. It would take some serious belief in those specs but the pay off could be huge.
    1 Abrams/ Peraza SS/ CF both have incredible speed and will both hit for a high avg
    2 Judge RF
    3 We need a legit 1st baseman. If they feel there is a chance Hosmer could be that guy, great but I would rather Freeman/ Rizzo. Ideally you make Hosmer a part time player so he doesn't get enough ABs to trigger his player option
    4 Stanton RF/LF DH. Stanton is a different guy when he gets some playing time in the OF but they still need to give him about half the time at DH'
    5 DJ 3rd until Volpe is ready, then you put DJ back to his original role of being a super utility guy playing 4-5 days a week at 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If he returns back to 2019-20 form then u may have to reconsider his role
    6 Torres 2nd base and hope like hell he turns it around, If he's not able to i wouldn't hesitate to trade him at the deadline and then give Cabrera an opportunity their.
    7 Gallo LF. IMO if u can put Gallo in the bottom 3rd, even if he only goes back to being the hitter he was before he can here, with his speed, defense and the way he plays the game as well as the power he brings he could be a very valuable piece.
    8 Catcher as long as it's not Sanchez or Higgy full time we'll be incredibly better off.
    9 Peraza/ Abrams, whichever isn't quite as ready offensively

    With Abrams you get a plus defender who has the ability to play multiple positions. Offensively he's one of the fastest players in BB with true 80 speed. He will wreck havoc on the base paths , score on balls put in play and put extra pressure on the defense.

    Judge is the heart and soul of this team

    We could give Hosmer a shot, but i'd like a better option. If we don't trade Wells or A Garcia, either would be huge bats at 1st in a couple yrs. Wells is LHed and A Garcia is a switch hitter with incredible power and both run very well for their positions. I believe Garcia has 15 SB is less than 250 AB's, which is very good for a kid 6'4 240. Wells has received praise for his base running and we know he can flat hit.

    Stanton is Stanton and i think he proved last yr, if he can stay healthy he's worth the 22m AAV were paying him

    If DJ returns to 2019-20 form, great, if not when Volpe comes up he adds power, more speed, athleticism, good defense and an all around solid player either at 2nd or 3rd

    I would like to see Torres get at minimum till the deadline to see if playing 2nd with return him to his elite offensive profile. If not we could have Cabrera, who is another SH, with speed, power, good defense at multiple positions who should factor into their utility role replacing Wade early next yr if what he did last yr was for real like most think. IMO he's being massively overlooked with Peraza and Volpe ahead of him

    Gallo could become a great long term piece if he cut down on the K's, and the punch he adds at the bottom of the order could be huge. If not we have a player who could be similar in Flo that would replace Gallo's LHed bat, speed and defense. If Pereira continues to shine he could end up in CF or LF. He certainly has enough bat to play a corner and is also an elite defender that runs well. Farther down the lineup we have Dom, who depending how he develops, which i expect a much better yr next yr, could play any of the 3 OF position, Has plus or better on every one of his tools. He also is another switch hitter, with power and speed and would likely hit in the middle of the order.

    Still need to find a legit C, hopefully we already have one coming in a trade. Down the line we have Gomez who is said to have the best pop times is an incredible receiver, elite blocker and one of the best framers in all of the MILB with a plus arm. The bat is almost as talented as his defense but he has to be able to stay healthy to get the reps he needs to move up the ladder

    I would let Peraza start at SS from day 1 and batting 9th we could live with the bumps with the bat until it catches up. With his elite defense, arm, speed and contact ability with descent power he should he could be a hell of a weapon at the bottom of the order.

    I'll be the first to admit there is alot of dreaming on these kids but other than Dom and Gomez they have all had high success in high A while most of them have seen success at higher levels and aren't 2-3 yrs away. I would say if they have similar seasons to what they did last yr, the only ones that likely won't be ready or very close by the 23 season are Dom, A Garcia and Gomez IMO for whatever its worth

    That would give us a lot of elite speed, hitters who have power but don't live or die with the long ball. We would have balance with a couple switch hitters ang the ability to really press opposing pitchers. Defensively that would be an elite group with players being able to play all over if needed and be a hell of alot better than any team in recent history. They certainly wouldn't have a slow, 1 dimensional lineup that only scores when we hit HRs like we have been counting on the last 4-5 yrs

    As far as the Sanchez deal i wasn't told names, i was just told that they were after a pitcher and an OFer. I wasn't told names, I'm sure u and your source have better info.
    Last edited by dayners81; 12-27-2021 at 09:30 AM.

  4. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I'm certainly not saying my info is better than yours, in fact, yours has been proven correct at just about every time. I think whats happening is were hearing from 2 separate parts of the Yanks organization. We've all been told how different factions inside the Yankees are pulling different directions.

    As far as the return for Hosmer/Abrams, I'm just saying what i was told. Hosmers's contract isn't bad enough to give up a top 10 overall spec just to move him. It's 20M next yr and 3 player options for 13m that can be controlable because their are number of ABs to trigger it. I was told they want and need pitching back.

    As far as the plans if they were to acquire Abrams. That would give us Abrams, Volpe, Peraza and Cabrera that are all at a minimum of 1 season away. DJ is locked up for another 5yrs, Torres and Gio are still under control as is Hicks. I would love nothing more to eventually see them all in the lineup but i think they would have to move at least one to fill other needs.

    I know there has been talk about getting both Peraza and Cabrera time in the OF next yr, maybe they make one of them a CFer and fill out the rest of the infield with the rest of them? That would give them a hell of a defensive, dynamic players with top notch speed and athleticism

    As far as the Sanchez deal i wasn't told names, i was just told that they were after a pitcher and an OFer. I wasn't told names, I'm sure u and your source have better info.
    Volpe 3b
    Torres 2b
    Peraza SS
    Dj 1B
    Cabrera utility
    Abrams CF

    Or Torres becomes a trade piece and Cabrera to 2b

    That would be a fun authentic lineup. 4, 20-20 guys.



    Ignorance is bliss

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Volpe 3b
    Torres 2b
    Peraza SS
    Dj 1B
    Cabrera utility
    Abrams CF

    Or Torres becomes a trade piece and Cabrera to 2b

    That would be a fun authentic lineup. 4, 20-20 guys.
    I expanded on my previous post, I'd love to hear what you're thoughts are. With a little luck it would be an incredible lineup with speed, versatility, athleticism, power, ability to score runs without the long ball and great defense

  6. #1626
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    BA has the PROJECTED 2025 LINEUP:

    Catcher: Austin Wells (25)
    First Base: DJ Lemahieu (36)
    Second Base: Gleyber Torres (28)
    Third Base: Anthony Volpe (23)
    Shortstop: Oswald Peraza (24)
    Left Field: Joey Gallo (31)
    Center Field: Jasson Dominguez (22)
    Right Field: Aaron Judge (32)
    Designated Hitter: Giancarlo Stanton (35)

    No. 1 Starter: Gerrit Cole (34)
    No. 2 Starter: Luis Severino (31)
    No. 3 Starter: Jordan Montgomery (32)
    No. 4 Starter: Luis Gil (26)
    No. 5 Starter: Hayden Wesneski (27)
    Closer: Luis Medina (26)

  7. #1627
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    Or if we are allowed to dream, wish and hope my 2022 lineup:

    Center - K Marte
    Right -Judge
    First - Olson
    DH - Stanton
    SS - Correa
    Left - Gallo
    Second - Torres
    C - Sanchez
    Third - DJ

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Volpe 3b
    Torres 2b
    Peraza SS
    Dj 1B
    Cabrera utility
    Abrams CF

    Or Torres becomes a trade piece and Cabrera to 2b

    That would be a fun authentic lineup. 4, 20-20 guys.
    Iíll co-sign this lineup. That would be a fun team to watch also defense would be legit for the pitchers to feel confident. Plus you still have Judge smashing home runs to lead this team once he signs a long term contract.

    Odds are it wonít happen due to someone getting traded but we can wish.


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  9. #1629
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Or if we are allowed to dream, wish and hope my 2022 lineup:

    Center - K Marte
    Right -Judge
    First - Olson
    DH - Stanton
    SS - Correa
    Left - Gallo
    Second - Torres
    C - Sanchez
    Third - DJ
    If we are dreaming then why not go get Trout, Soto, and Tatis? Lol

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    If we are dreaming then why not go get Trout, Soto, and Tatis? Lol
    Good point. However all those I mentioned have been linked to Yanks this off season and are attainable.

  11. #1631
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    I would love to see that lineup. Its unlikely Volpe is actually ready at least till later next yr.

    To get Abrams i gladly take back Hosmer and send them German and 1 of Schmidt, Vasquez Devi type.

    Hosmer is a LHed 1st baseman with a descent glove and he didnt hit that badly last yr. Hes certainly not Freeman, Olsen but would he really be that much worse than Rizzo? Hosmer is a 4 time GG winner so he is capable of great defense which we need at that position. He hit .270/ .339/ .395 with a WRC + of 104. Doesnt have alot of hr power, but playiing half his games in YS with the short porch and in general hitting in the smaller parks of the AL east vs NL west we could see those number go up. He still hit close to 30 2bs last yr how many of those would go over the fence at YS.

    Hosmer isnt ideal but to get a player like Abrams whos a top 10 overall spec i make that deal all day. Realistically Hosmer could only be a 1yr stop gap. His salary this yr is 20m but next yr its only 13m. If he has a descent yr would it really be that big of stretch to pay 5-6 m of his salary and move him if he doesnt workout? The potential value of Abrams makes that worth it without question.

    This current roster isnt going to win a WS imo. Sanchez and Higgy need to go, Hicks isnt good enough to be our syarting CFer anymore. He doesnt stay healthy enough and even when he has he hasnt been nearly the player we was before the TJS and at the plate he didnt exactly look good in Winter ball. We need to do something at SS, we need to find out if Torres can still hit. We have Britt and Chapman making 33m next yr.

    Realistically we dont really know what were going to get from our rotation after Cole and Monty. We have some other very talented pitchers but its a whole lot of hope and pray after Cole and Monty.

    Yes we could go with the route that has been our go to for a long time. We could massively over pay for Correa and possibly set up a clubhouse nightmare with a player that has a chronic injury history. Thats goi g to take a minimum of 10yr300m for a player who is a defense 1st player. He's certainly not elite with the bat. If your giving 10yr300m to someone, i would like a top 20 overall player and IMO he's not in that class. Especially when Peraza will give u very similar defensive value from day . Peraza isnt far away from at minimum be a .270 15-20 hrs 30-40 SBs for about 30m less a yr.

    We could give a 31 yr old Freeman 5-6 yrs at 30m aav, which is probably 2 yrs to long. After Jake we all swore off signing expensive long-term deals for players till there late 30s .

    We could send Peraza, Gil plus to Oakland for 2yrs of Olsen. He had a career yr and is a great player but is it worth it for 2yrs? then we either have to give him a massive extention or find another option. We could give Rizzo 15 -18 m for 3-4 yrs. Are we sure thats the 1st baseman we want for the next 3-4 yrs till hes 35.

    We could trade a ton for Reynolds or Marte if we've trade for Olsen, trading for one of those guys would really empty the farm. We could also sign Suzuki who is a bit of an unknow coming out of Japan. He's really not a CFer, even in Japan and how many really good hitter have come over later in their career and had success. Ichiro and Matsui are the only ones that come to find. Ohtani came at a very early age and it took him 3yrs to full adjust.

    We have to get better behind the plate and that will require another trade to further empty the farm

    To really compete we probably need at least 1 more TORP, that is going to either empty the farm further or we could sign Rendon, any huge injury risk for 3-4 yr and probabaly 15 -20 m aav

    Then we have to figure on a Judge extension which will be at a very minimum of 5 -7 yrs and probabaly a minimum of 33-35 m AAV

    So were at 220m now, add 10yrs 32m AAV for Correa, were at 250m, sign Freeman that another 30m, Olsen would be 12m next yr, probably close to 20.next yr and 2-3 of.our of our top 5, Only to be back in the same situation in 2yrs but without the assets. Or we could give Rizzo 15 18m. If we got Olsen, which is the cheapest financial that 10m more which puts us at 260m minimum.

    Catcher and CF will cost us specs and at a minimum 15-20 m to upgrade. so that puts us close to 280m.

    To really expect to win we likely need another good pitcher Rendon is probably going to 15m, Manaea, Montas or Bassit is going to cost specs, which we d be running low on at this point and all are expected to cost around 10m and max 2yrs of control so we at 290m on the lower end.

    Judge extention is going to add another 15 18m now were well over 300m

    We have an empty farm, a payroll over 300m minimum, expensive deals 4-5 players into their late 30s and are we willing to bet all that, that that team would be good enough to win it all? 290M didnt even get the Dodgers who IMO would be better put together than the proposed roster.

    U know which yr we had our most successful yr in recent history, 2017. We bet on some kids and messed around and got within 1 game of the WS with a payroll that was actually under the LT.

    We havent gotten better since 17, even with all the high priced additions we've made. Stanton was supposed to be the missing piece, until last season that hasnt worked out and we missed on Harper who has proven to be the younger better player.

    Cole was exactly what we needed, even on a down yr he still finished 2nd in tje cy young. The other pitching additions weve made have been mostly crap, Gray didnt workout, Paxton sucked, Kluber wasn't what we needed, Taillon wasnt awful but id much rather have Roansy who we traded for him going forward without question

    There is a different way to put together a winning team that we could actually turn into a dynasty . It may take a little patience and some unpopular choices right now but what weve been doing since 09 hasnt worked and we keep doing the samething other than 17. I think there is a different way to build a team. No matter how much we spend u cant buy Championships in baseball.

    Im sure im in the minority and thus wint be a popular opinion but what weve done hasnt been working. Why not try and build a team another way. Worst Case were retooling in 2yrs but the only big contracts we' d have on the books would be Cole, Judge in Stanton who would all still be in there early 30s.

    If u spend the kind of money and trade the specs its going to take to really make this team a co tender from day 1. We better have made everyone of the right moves because were not going to have money to spend for yrs and were not going to have the farm left to impact the MLB roster at a high level

  12. #1632
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    Day I hear ya. I don't believe yours is a minority view, at least not here on PSD. There are multiple ways to improve. One is more organic and comes from within, others are more dependent on outside help and money. I would love to see the kids succeed. My only issue or issues, we have to wait a minimum of two-three years for them to mature, once the wait is over do they actually succeed? I know how high you are on many of the spects, you believe their ceilings are high and the chances of them attaining is probable. Imo history suggests otherwise, you can count on one hand the Yankees' success stories....Jeter, Munson, Pettitte, Posada, Guidry. The jury is still out on Judge and Betances.

    Yes kids are exciting to watch grow and develop. Imo winning is more exciting. Post season BB is far more exciting. Imo the 2017 success boils down to 52 hr's by Judge, 33 by Sanchez, 25 by Didi and 21 by Gardy. They powered their way thru. Pitching was mediocre, no one on staff had 15 W's, in fact Sevy led the with 14 tied with CC.

    How many losing seasons are Yankee fans willing to tolerate waiting for the kids to mature? I think you need balance of vets and rooks.

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Day I hear ya. I don't believe yours is a minority view, at least not here on PSD. There are multiple ways to improve. One is more organic and comes from within, others are more dependent on outside help and money. I would love to see the kids succeed. My only issue or issues, we have to wait a minimum of two-three years for them to mature, once the wait is over do they actually succeed? I know how high you are on many of the spects, you believe their ceilings are high and the chances of them attaining is probable. Imo history suggests otherwise, you can count on one hand the Yankees' success stories....Jeter, Munson, Pettitte, Posada, Guidry. The jury is still out on Judge and Betances.

    Yes kids are exciting to watch grow and develop. Imo winning is more exciting. Post season BB is far more exciting. Imo the 2017 success boils down to 52 hr's by Judge, 33 by Sanchez, 25 by Didi and 21 by Gardy. They powered their way thru. Pitching was mediocre, no one on staff had 15 W's, in fact Sevy led the with 14 tied with CC.

    How many losing seasons are Yankee fans willing to tolerate waiting for the kids to mature? I think you need balance of vets and rooks.
    Doc, while i think u see part of my point, i think you're missing a big part of it. I agree we need a mix of vets and kids but were missing the kids on this team. The youngest position player on the 26 man roster is Torres who is a 4yr vet and 25. We don't have any real youth on the position side of the ball. Look at our current roster, Sanchez is 29, Higgy is 31, , Voit is 30, DJ is 33, Gio is 30, Gallo is 28, Judge is 29, Hicks is 32. Torres is the only regular under 27. It's actually one of the older position rosters in the league.

    Of the players were talking about adding is Correa is 27, wants a 10 yr deal and at minimum 32.5 AAV. His best tool is clearly his defense. He's had 2 yrs where he was a really good hitter, his 2nd best yr offensively was the yr they were caught stealing sign's. He's never hit 30hrs, actually his best yr is 26 HR and he's avg 19hrs. Never had a 100 RBI's, best yr 96 in 2016, avg 70 a yr. He's scored 100 runs once, best 104 , avg 62. Games played he's only had 2yr where he has played more than 110G avg 108 game played. Those are his youngest and what should be his healthiest yrs, chronic conditions, especially backs don't generally improve with age.
    He is a defensive first player who avg offensive line is .277. 19hrs, 70 RBI's, 62 RS and for his career has a total of 33 stolen bases and has stolen of 6 bases since 2017. My point is Peraza according to every scout and analyst i've read is capable right now of playing GG quality defense now. In a 116 games across 3 levels, mostly AA, the biggest test for a player in MILB, He hit .297/.356/.834 with 19 hrs, 76 RS 58 RBI's and 38 SB as a 20 yr old. If he played 140 games, which is realistic, is .260, 15-20 hrs , 80 RS, 65 RBI, 40 plus SB's be a stretch? I sure don't and Correa isn't going to be 30 plus M a yr better based on his career numbers. For the yrs and money he's going to get, i just don't see him being 30m more valuable than what Peraza can be from day 1. Were not going to have to wait 2-3yrs for Peraza to be elite defensively and hit .260, 15-20 hrs, 80RS, 65 RBI's and 40 SB's. I'll be very shocked if he doesn't do that the 1st yr and we know he'll bring far more speed and athleticism from day 1 than Correa at a fraction of the cost.

    If we could get Abrams, I'd be pretty shocked also if he didn't put up very similar numbers to Peraza right out of the gate and he'll bring the same kind of speed, athleticism and defense also. I find both those options far more appealing than giving Correa a deal that will pay his 30M plus till he's in his late 30's. Plus we get younger and cheaper, faster, more dynamic and better defensively,.

    In that Abrams deal we would get Hosmer back, not my 1st choice but he's a 4 time GG winner and truly only locked into him for 1yr. With any kind of descent yr, if we want to get away from him, paying 4-5m of his 13m dollar option that becomes a player option with 550 Ab's is out of the question. Is he the greatest option, absolutely not but he's not likely going to be much worse than Rizzo will probably be. If fact a couple prediction sites have them having similar yrs with Hosmer having the BA advantage and Rizzo with the HR advantage. And we would be getting Abrams without giving up much.

    The best hitter left on the market is Freeman, he's 32, 33 in September and is looking for 6yrs 180m which would take him till he's 39 if we could get him away from ATL. At that amount/ length is that really how we want to invest that money? After, Tex, Arod, Jake the Yanks swore off signing those kind of deals for players into their late 30's.

    Olsen is ideal, but we'd absolutely be paying a premium to get him coming off a career yr. IMO I don' think he's worth giving up Dom, Gil plus, or Volpe plus or Peraza, Gil, Wells plus which are all packages that have been suggested. They would have zero interest in a Torres/ Voit package or really anyone on the MLB roster because of cost, age and yrs of control. They also would like to package Andrus with him. If we can really get Hosmer/Abrams for German and Schmidt or something close to that, IMO thats a no brainer. With Olsen the only way we don't give up multiples of our top 5 is if we take Andrus back and Andrus is dead weight. Both Peraza and Abrams, IMO are better options from day one than Andrus

    I don't believe 2yrs of Olsen is worth our the package he is going to require and have to resign him to a huge deal next winter. We could role with Hosmer/ DJ at 1st then sign Olsen as a FA and still have Volpe, Dom, Peraza and Abrams

    If they can get Olsen without giving up tour top 3 or multiple of our top 5 i do think that is a move they should make. If Wells and Gil get it done, they should but i wouldn't give up a better package than that

    Volpe, had the highest WAR of any MILB player last yr, thats a player you don't trade and wait for. Under most scenario's he ends up at 2nd or 3rd. Unless he goes complete God mode he'll start they yr in AA and unless he forces his way into the lineup he'll have DJ in front of him at 3rd and Torres in front of him at 2nd base. He's one of the top specs in baseball and worth waiting for IMO. He has speed, power, very good defense and every intangible you could dream on and could be ready late this yr, especially if either Torres or DJ falter

    I think Cabrera is being seriously undervalued by us, he can play 3 INF positions and there is talk about him getting reps in CF to increase his versatility. He is a very good defender, he's got speed, athleticism, is a switch hitter and has power from both sides of the plate. He hit 29 hrs last yr between AA and AAA and hit .500 with 8 hrs in his time in AAA.

    My point on the position side is we have guys, especially if we could get Abrams that we really don't have to wait to much for them to be better options than what we have. We don't spend or over pay for pretty good players that are available and could save that money for a truly special player that could come along like Soto or someone that might become available that is truly elite and worth the money.

    We are mostly a slow, plodding team that getting older and more and more expensive. Look at the moves we've made that haven't gotten us any farther than as u mentioned, a couple rookies having huge yrs and two veterans having career yrs. Lets say Judge and Stanton have similar yrs to last yr, DJ and Torres rebound and we get good yrs from Peraza, Cabrera and if we can get him Abrams. Abrams, Peraza and Cabrera have the ability to immediately add a whole different dynamic to this team. They would bring speed, plus or better defense at multiple key positions, we wouldn't be so dependent on HR's, we would have actual youth, versatility, speed which is something we sorely lack in the lineup. When Volpe is ready he only adds to that new dynamic.

    I do think they have to do something behind the plate before next yr. What we have back there isn't working, IMO that will help with the pitching.

    As far as in the rotation, Cashman sucks at finding pitching. He's made a list of mistakes there a mile and a half long. We have already seen how they Taillon/ Roansy trade has worked out. He would be our clear top pitching spec and we traded that plus more for 2 yrs of a damaged and mediocre Taillon. Blake and the rest of the development crew have done an amazing job helping the pitchers we have improve. Do we really want to trade Gil or Medina for 1yr of Manaea or 2 yrs of an over 30 Bassit? Or watch him sign another project like Rendon who has top notch stuff but just needs that last thing to click to be that great find on the mound Cashman has been looking and looking time and again for the last 15yrs. We've seen that movie how many times now? The difference this time is we have real, very high ceiling talent thats on the verge of being MLB ready.

    We have quality veterans and leadership in Judge, Stanton, DJ, Cole. Gallo can be a very good player. leader and example in some aspects of the game as well. We have a top 3 in the rotation of Cole, Monty and Sevy who could be very, very good on their own. We've spent, we've traded for players, we've signed elite players, we've taken on projects and it's resulted in 1 WS appearance in close to 2 decades. Why not try it a little differently this time since we have some really special talent coming with in the next season and a half and have quality veterans to help lead them.

    IMO, Correa isn't worth anything close to the money, the stats show that clearly IMO. Story has arm issue that have most teams wanting to move him to 2nd or 3rd. Yes Olsen would be a huge get but is he going to be that much better than Hosmer and Abrams if that deal is achievable plus the likely cost of Peraza and Gil to get him for 2yrs?

    What we've done for the last decade hasn't gotten us to the promise land and there is no guarantee that spending the payroll up to 300M or pretty much emptying the farm to get the right players to fix this team will get us a WS either. I'd like to see if we could be successful doing it another way. If trying another way means giving the kids a yr to grow I'm fine with that, especially with what it could lead to for the next 4-5 yrs if a handful of things break our way

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Doc, while i think u see part of my point, i think you're missing a big part of it. I agree we need a mix of vets and kids but were missing the kids on this team. The youngest position player on the 26 man roster is Torres who is a 4yr vet and 25. We don't have any real youth on the position side of the ball. Look at our current roster, Sanchez is 29, Higgy is 31, , Voit is 30, DJ is 33, Gio is 30, Gallo is 28, Judge is 29, Hicks is 32. Torres is the only regular under 27. It's actually one of the older position rosters in the league.

    Of the players were talking about adding is Correa is 27, wants a 10 yr deal and at minimum 32.5 AAV. His best tool is clearly his defense. He's had 2 yrs where he was a really good hitter, his 2nd best yr offensively was the yr they were caught stealing sign's. He's never hit 30hrs, actually his best yr is 26 HR and he's avg 19hrs. Never had a 100 RBI's, best yr 96 in 2016, avg 70 a yr. He's scored 100 runs once, best 104 , avg 62. Games played he's only had 2yr where he has played more than 110G avg 108 game played. Those are his youngest and what should be his healthiest yrs, chronic conditions, especially backs don't generally improve with age.
    He is a defensive first player who avg offensive line is .277. 19hrs, 70 RBI's, 62 RS and for his career has a total of 33 stolen bases and has stolen of 6 bases since 2017. My point is Peraza according to every scout and analyst i've read is capable right now of playing GG quality defense now. In a 116 games across 3 levels, mostly AA, the biggest test for a player in MILB, He hit .297/.356/.834 with 19 hrs, 76 RS 58 RBI's and 38 SB as a 20 yr old. If he played 140 games, which is realistic, is .260, 15-20 hrs , 80 RS, 65 RBI, 40 plus SB's be a stretch? I sure don't and Correa isn't going to be 30 plus M a yr better based on his career numbers. For the yrs and money he's going to get, i just don't see him being 30m more valuable than what Peraza can be from day 1. Were not going to have to wait 2-3yrs for Peraza to be elite defensively and hit .260, 15-20 hrs, 80RS, 65 RBI's and 40 SB's. I'll be very shocked if he doesn't do that the 1st yr and we know he'll bring far more speed and athleticism from day 1 than Correa at a fraction of the cost.

    If we could get Abrams, I'd be pretty shocked also if he didn't put up very similar numbers to Peraza right out of the gate and he'll bring the same kind of speed, athleticism and defense also. I find both those options far more appealing than giving Correa a deal that will pay his 30M plus till he's in his late 30's. Plus we get younger and cheaper, faster, more dynamic and better defensively,.

    In that Abrams deal we would get Hosmer back, not my 1st choice but he's a 4 time GG winner and truly only locked into him for 1yr. With any kind of descent yr, if we want to get away from him, paying 4-5m of his 13m dollar option that becomes a player option with 550 Ab's is out of the question. Is he the greatest option, absolutely not but he's not likely going to be much worse than Rizzo will probably be. If fact a couple prediction sites have them having similar yrs with Hosmer having the BA advantage and Rizzo with the HR advantage. And we would be getting Abrams without giving up much.

    The best hitter left on the market is Freeman, he's 32, 33 in September and is looking for 6yrs 180m which would take him till he's 39 if we could get him away from ATL. At that amount/ length is that really how we want to invest that money? After, Tex, Arod, Jake the Yanks swore off signing those kind of deals for players into their late 30's.

    Olsen is ideal, but we'd absolutely be paying a premium to get him coming off a career yr. IMO I don' think he's worth giving up Dom, Gil plus, or Volpe plus or Peraza, Gil, Wells plus which are all packages that have been suggested. They would have zero interest in a Torres/ Voit package or really anyone on the MLB roster because of cost, age and yrs of control. They also would like to package Andrus with him. If we can really get Hosmer/Abrams for German and Schmidt or something close to that, IMO thats a no brainer. With Olsen the only way we don't give up multiples of our top 5 is if we take Andrus back and Andrus is dead weight. Both Peraza and Abrams, IMO are better options from day one than Andrus

    I don't believe 2yrs of Olsen is worth our the package he is going to require and have to resign him to a huge deal next winter. We could role with Hosmer/ DJ at 1st then sign Olsen as a FA and still have Volpe, Dom, Peraza and Abrams

    If they can get Olsen without giving up tour top 3 or multiple of our top 5 i do think that is a move they should make. If Wells and Gil get it done, they should but i wouldn't give up a better package than that

    Volpe, had the highest WAR of any MILB player last yr, thats a player you don't trade and wait for. Under most scenario's he ends up at 2nd or 3rd. Unless he goes complete God mode he'll start they yr in AA and unless he forces his way into the lineup he'll have DJ in front of him at 3rd and Torres in front of him at 2nd base. He's one of the top specs in baseball and worth waiting for IMO. He has speed, power, very good defense and every intangible you could dream on and could be ready late this yr, especially if either Torres or DJ falter

    I think Cabrera is being seriously undervalued by us, he can play 3 INF positions and there is talk about him getting reps in CF to increase his versatility. He is a very good defender, he's got speed, athleticism, is a switch hitter and has power from both sides of the plate. He hit 29 hrs last yr between AA and AAA and hit .500 with 8 hrs in his time in AAA.

    My point on the position side is we have guys, especially if we could get Abrams that we really don't have to wait to much for them to be better options than what we have. We don't spend or over pay for pretty good players that are available and could save that money for a truly special player that could come along like Soto or someone that might become available that is truly elite and worth the money.

    We are mostly a slow, plodding team that getting older and more and more expensive. Look at the moves we've made that haven't gotten us any farther than as u mentioned, a couple rookies having huge yrs and two veterans having career yrs. Lets say Judge and Stanton have similar yrs to last yr, DJ and Torres rebound and we get good yrs from Peraza, Cabrera and if we can get him Abrams. Abrams, Peraza and Cabrera have the ability to immediately add a whole different dynamic to this team. They would bring speed, plus or better defense at multiple key positions, we wouldn't be so dependent on HR's, we would have actual youth, versatility, speed which is something we sorely lack in the lineup. When Volpe is ready he only adds to that new dynamic.

    I do think they have to do something behind the plate before next yr. What we have back there isn't working, IMO that will help with the pitching.

    As far as in the rotation, Cashman sucks at finding pitching. He's made a list of mistakes there a mile and a half long. We have already seen how they Taillon/ Roansy trade has worked out. He would be our clear top pitching spec and we traded that plus more for 2 yrs of a damaged and mediocre Taillon. Blake and the rest of the development crew have done an amazing job helping the pitchers we have improve. Do we really want to trade Gil or Medina for 1yr of Manaea or 2 yrs of an over 30 Bassit? Or watch him sign another project like Rendon who has top notch stuff but just needs that last thing to click to be that great find on the mound Cashman has been looking and looking time and again for the last 15yrs. We've seen that movie how many times now? The difference this time is we have real, very high ceiling talent thats on the verge of being MLB ready.

    We have quality veterans and leadership in Judge, Stanton, DJ, Cole. Gallo can be a very good player. leader and example in some aspects of the game as well. We have a top 3 in the rotation of Cole, Monty and Sevy who could be very, very good on their own. We've spent, we've traded for players, we've signed elite players, we've taken on projects and it's resulted in 1 WS appearance in close to 2 decades. Why not try it a little differently this time since we have some really special talent coming with in the next season and a half and have quality veterans to help lead them.

    IMO, Correa isn't worth anything close to the money, the stats show that clearly IMO. Story has arm issue that have most teams wanting to move him to 2nd or 3rd. Yes Olsen would be a huge get but is he going to be that much better than Hosmer and Abrams if that deal is achievable plus the likely cost of Peraza and Gil to get him for 2yrs?

    What we've done for the last decade hasn't gotten us to the promise land and there is no guarantee that spending the payroll up to 300M or pretty much emptying the farm to get the right players to fix this team will get us a WS either. I'd like to see if we could be successful doing it another way. If trying another way means giving the kids a yr to grow I'm fine with that, especially with what it could lead to for the next 4-5 yrs if a handful of things break our way


    Yankees canít afford to wait for a bunch of kids to develop. They are a money machine and watching kids develop with 79-83 type records for 3-4 years doesnít put money back in the bank. The only way they can do this is for 2-3 of the kids to break out immediately like the Dynasty kids did back in the mid to late 90s. Vets will have to be a part of this team to keep the team afloat in case the kids schitt the bedÖ At worst you will get the 2013/2014 type seasons that keep just enough people interested to buy merch, tickets so Hal gets some sort of a net profit at the end of the 4th quarter.
    Last edited by rrzubnyy; 12-28-2021 at 06:25 AM.
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    2. Gimme Shelter
    3. Miss You
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    5. Sympathy for the Devil
    6. Anybody seen my Baby
    7. Paint it Black
    8. Rock and a Hard Place
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  15. #1635
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    Yankees canít afford to wait for a bunch of kids to develop. They are a money machine and watching kids develop with 79-83 type records for 3-4 years doesnít put money back in the bank. The only way they can do this is for 2-3 of the kids to break out immediately like the Dynasty kids did back in the mid to late 90s. Vets will have to be a part of this team to keep the team afloat in case the kids schitt the bedÖ At worst you will get the 2013/2014 type seasons that keep just enough people interested to buy merch, tickets so Hal gets some sort of a net profit at the end of the 4th quarter.
    There won't be a team of just kids. The lineup will still have Judge, Stanton,Hicks, Gallo, DJ, Torres, GIo and a vet catcher. We are talking about simply playing an unproven but very highly regarded SS instead of signing a guy for 300+ mil and potentially a young CF or C of the same stature as Peraza, instead of Hicks. So there would be 2 rookies on a team of vets with a vet pitching staff.

    This team needs that infusion more than anything. They don't need Correa. If the Yankees want to spend on Freeman? Great But for giggles what about this lineup

    DJ 3b
    Judge RF
    Freeman 1B
    Stanton DH
    Gallo LF
    Torres 2b
    Sanchez C
    Peraza SS
    Abrams CF

    I think that is very unlikely but I would love it. I think it's more likely they trade for a guy like Marte to play CF.
    Marte
    Judge
    Freeman
    Stanton
    DJ
    Torres
    Gallo
    Sanchez
    Peraza

    If the Yankees want to get more athletic and faster, they need to actually get athletic, fast players.
    Peraza is both. I would love it if they gave him a shot. As Day said, worst case, you have a fantastic defensive SS



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