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  1. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Last question first, why must it be a choice. I prefer both at this juncture. I prefer Judge in the OF, but prior to coming to NY Stanton was an above average OFer. It's more about keeping him healthy than ability to perform at the position. If needed no question in my mind Stanton could still play the OF at an above average pace.

    So I assume you feel it was a bad signing by Cashman. Long term strategic view or something akin, was sorely lacking? OK We can debate the issue. Thus far I don't believe it has prevented the Yankees from resigning any of their own. Has it effected payroll flexibility? Well I guess that depends on your view of Hal the penny pinching bean counter. Has Stanton become the convenient scapegoat, an easy target and excuse for not spending elsewhere? Certainly plausible argument. Has Hal used the excuse to hold the line on the luxury tax threshold? Also plausible.

    Had the same deal been offered to the other 29 teams (at the time) how many bite? 15-20?Stanton enjoyed his best season in 2017 improving his own approach at the plate. Most power hitters—Judge included—exchange extra chances at home runs for extra strikeouts. Swing for the fences, and either reach them or whiff entirely. But Stanton managed to combine a career high in isolated power with a career low in strikeout rate in 2017, transforming himself from a hitter who struck out 30 percent of the time to one who was barely worse than league average in that category.

    Obscured by Stanton’s homer totals is the fact that he’s also an all-around contributor. From 2014-'17 , he’s was rated one of the five best defensive right fielders in the majors; shown to have plate discipline to take a walk; and established himself as decent on basepaths. He ranked third among position players in 2017 by both Baseball-Reference’s and FanGraphs’ versions of WAR, trailing only José Altuve and Judge (he also tied Anthony Rendon for third in the latter). In Baseball Prospectus’s version, he led the majors.

    So before we tar and feather anyone we must consider the player the Yankees were evaluating at the time. A reigning MVP with a host of accolades. Hindsight is always 20/20.
    All good points Doc. I will say that I hated this trade when it happened and I hated it for the reasons I still do. Redundancy and limitations.
    Was he a good OF? Sure. Top 5? Meh. I didn't see that here even when he played RF. Solid? Yes. Reliable? Yes. Top 5? I didn't think he was.
    His offense when he's clicking is undeniable. It is also undeniable when he's not.

    No. It has not hindered them from resigning anyone to date. I agree.
    But how much will Judge command and for how long? Judge will want 5-7 for over 25+.
    Torres? If he keeps hitting and playing decent D, I would guess at 27, he will be looking 8-10 years for 20+
    Andujar and GIo have a few years of arbitration and will be in their 30s for their first contracts. By then they may just let them walk.

    Would any other team have done it? I don't know. I would guess some would have and some would have passed because of contract length and lack of trade-ability. Yankees take that on because they supposedly can. But then they decided to stay within budget?

    I certainly understand people looking at him as a bargain because of the potential offense prowess. I understand that because of that, this isn't a bad deal by any means. I am not saying it is.
    I would have much rather had a guy like Daniel Murphy. I would much rather a guy who can put the ball in play when needed. A guy who can move a runner when needed.

    As previously stated, I do not believe the Yankees will win a title with him being a constant in the lineup.
    If they have the sack in a couple years to sit him and use him as a DH sometimes? Sure. That is presuming he's still willing to jog to first.



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  2. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Since his return on April 22nd against Cleveland, here’s what Germán has done: Nine starts, throwing between five innings and seven innings in each, and allowing no more than three runs in any of them. Over the nine games, he’s thrown 53.2 innings, with a 48/10 strikeout to walk ratio, and a 2.35 ERA, while allowing only 38 hits over that span. Germán has held opponents to a .195/.238/.359 slash line over that stretch, all three of those numbers coming in at well-below league average.

    For the season, among the 57 AL pitchers who’ve thrown a minimum of 50 innings, Germán ranks 17th in bWAR (1.4), and 13th in ERA+ (131) according to Baseball Reference, while coming in at 14th in WARP (0.9) and 13th in DRA- (90) according to Baseball Prospectus. Simply put, he’s having a very good season.
    He's a winner and does an effective job.

  3. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    Since his return on April 22nd against Cleveland, here’s what Germán has done: Nine starts, throwing between five innings and seven innings in each, and allowing no more than three runs in any of them. Over the nine games, he’s thrown 53.2 innings, with a 48/10 strikeout to walk ratio, and a 2.35 ERA, while allowing only 38 hits over that span. Germán has held opponents to a .195/.238/.359 slash line over that stretch, all three of those numbers coming in at well-below league average.

    For the season, among the 57 AL pitchers who’ve thrown a minimum of 50 innings, Germán ranks 17th in bWAR (1.4), and 13th in ERA+ (131) according to Baseball Reference, while coming in at 14th in WARP (0.9) and 13th in DRA- (90) according to Baseball Prospectus. Simply put, he’s having a very good season.
    But...but...but Jorge told me he sucks.

    I agree day he's performed, maturing into a solid starter.

  4. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    All good points Doc. I will say that I hated this trade when it happened and I hated it for the reasons I still do. Redundancy and limitations.
    Was he a good OF? Sure. Top 5? Meh. I didn't see that here even when he played RF. Solid? Yes. Reliable? Yes. Top 5? I didn't think he was.
    His offense when he's clicking is undeniable. It is also undeniable when he's not.

    No. It has not hindered them from resigning anyone to date. I agree.
    But how much will Judge command and for how long? Judge will want 5-7 for over 25+.
    Torres? If he keeps hitting and playing decent D, I would guess at 27, he will be looking 8-10 years for 20+
    Andujar and GIo have a few years of arbitration and will be in their 30s for their first contracts. By then they may just let them walk.

    Would any other team have done it? I don't know. I would guess some would have and some would have passed because of contract length and lack of trade-ability. Yankees take that on because they supposedly can. But then they decided to stay within budget?

    I certainly understand people looking at him as a bargain because of the potential offense prowess. I understand that because of that, this isn't a bad deal by any means. I am not saying it is.
    I would have much rather had a guy like Daniel Murphy. I would much rather a guy who can put the ball in play when needed. A guy who can move a runner when needed.

    As previously stated, I do not believe the Yankees will win a title with him being a constant in the lineup.
    If they have the sack in a couple years to sit him and use him as a DH sometimes? Sure. That is presuming he's still willing to jog to first.
    All fair and good points clown. I wasn't thrilled with the trade at the time, nor was I grossly disappointed. I saw a redundant slugger that was coming off an MVP year. My concern at the time was his position, would he
    displace Judge in RF or would he settle for LF? I didn't see him as a full time DH.

    Top 5 OFer? That wasn't my assessment, that was based on the data by both Baseball-Reference’s and FanGraphs’ versions of WAR.

    Your argument is solid and I can agree in part, particularly the redundancy we have discussed in the past. That is a problem on the team as a whole and the issue lies in the way in which the roster is constructed. Where are the LHed or even SH ers? Wade, Odor and Gardy ain't scaring to many pitchers.

  5. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    But...but...but Jorge told me he sucks.

    I agree day he's performed, maturing into a solid starter.
    He's been our 2nd best starter this yr, third if Kluber was still healthy.. IMO he's shown he is much better than your average 4th/5th starter. IMO and i believe Clown alluded to this also, if German is a teams 3rd starter you have a very good rotation, if he's your 4th it would be very impressive

    If they decide to be sellers, now that Germans value has sky rocketed, would you listen on him at the deadline? or Monty?

    We will have an absolute ton of starting pitching coming, especially if were not buying at the deadline. Were always trying to be like the Rays. They always trade their assets when they can get peak value for them and add to the farm system. We could promote internally and add to the farm system. The question is do they believe enough in the pitching spec we have coming to think they could handle or excel in the back spots in our rotation

  6. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    He's been our 2nd best starter this yr, third if Kluber was still healthy.. IMO he's shown he is much better than your average 4th/5th starter. IMO and i believe Clown alluded to this also, if German is a teams 3rd starter you have a very good rotation, if he's your 4th it would be very impressive

    If they decide to be sellers, now that Germans value has sky rocketed, would you listen on him at the deadline? or Monty?

    We will have an absolute ton of starting pitching coming, especially if were not buying at the deadline. Were always trying to be like the Rays. They always trade their assets when they can get peak value for them and add to the farm system. We could promote internally and add to the farm system. The question is do they believe enough in the pitching spec we have coming to think they could handle or excel in the back spots in our rotation
    If I could pick, I would prefer to keep German and ship Monty. I just feel his stuff is a little better and ceiling might be a bit higher as well. Monty has pitched well, just not on same level as German imo. Hopefully they keep both.

  7. #697
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    I spoke with my buddy, he said that the Yanks have recieved interest on multiple BP pieces, especially their LHed relievers. The market for LHed relievers is said to be particularly thin. He said both the Dodgers and Padres have called about Chapman and Britton.

    He said at this time the Yanks aren't interested in selling whatsoever at this time, if they continue to struggle in the AL East he said they may rethink that.

    He said to move either Chappy or Britton the price would be astronomical, assuming Brit can show he's healthy before the break. They both have multiple yrs left on their deals so he said the return would be similar to what we got for Miller/Chappy the first time. Another reason he said the Yanks maybe interested is the amount of payroll it could clear up, a little over 30M next yr..

    While i'm not hoping by any means that the Yanks sell, It would be interesting to see what they Yanks could get back from those 2 top farms.. If the Dodgers were willing to give up Dustin May plus, even though he won't be back till next yr would that be enough??

  8. #698
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    Severino is making second rehab start Saturday.

    Britton could be back on this road trip.

    Voit could start minor league rehab start as soon as Sunday.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by OhSoSlick; 06-10-2021 at 06:09 PM.
    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  9. #699
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    I'm really surprised about Voit. It must not have been a grade 2 as initially advertised or if it was, it barely was.
    Good news all around!



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  10. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayners81 View Post
    I spoke with my buddy, he said that the Yanks have recieved interest on multiple BP pieces, especially their LHed relievers. The market for LHed relievers is said to be particularly thin. He said both the Dodgers and Padres have called about Chapman and Britton.

    He said at this time the Yanks aren't interested in selling whatsoever at this time, if they continue to struggle in the AL East he said they may rethink that.

    He said to move either Chappy or Britton the price would be astronomical, assuming Brit can show he's healthy before the break. They both have multiple yrs left on their deals so he said the return would be similar to what we got for Miller/Chappy the first time. Another reason he said the Yanks maybe interested is the amount of payroll it could clear up, a little over 30M next yr..

    While i'm not hoping by any means that the Yanks sell, It would be interesting to see what they Yanks could get back from those 2 top farms.. If the Dodgers were willing to give up Dustin May plus, even though he won't be back till next yr would that be enough??
    Chapman or Britton makes sense. Imo don't require both to be successful, more of a luxury. Hopefully Britton is healthy and healed. I mentioned LA last week as the type team the Yanks could and should consider for Chapman / Britton deal. It worked once for the Cubs, could again for LA.

    May coming off TJS worth the risk? IDK. Seems like there is a ton of upside, but following surgery there is always risk.

  11. #701
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    Seems like May might still have all six years of control left. That would be some trade if he returns healthy.

  12. #702
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    I'd trade for May.

    If they're doing a full rebuild.

    That's a long term piece you can build around.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Chapman or Britton makes sense. Imo don't require both to be successful, more of a luxury. Hopefully Britton is healthy and healed. I mentioned LA last week as the type team the Yanks could and should consider for Chapman / Britton deal. It worked once for the Cubs, could again for LA.

    May coming off TJS worth the risk? IDK. Seems like there is a ton of upside, but following surgery there is always risk.
    I agree having both Chapman and Brit is an extreme luxury , especially if they aren't contending. Depending on the return I would have no issue trading 1 of them at the deadline. Either, assuming Brit comes back anywhere close to normal, would be a huge difference maker for a contending team.

    If you trade 1 and hold onto 1 who stays and who goes? Chapman would probably get the biggest return but Brits contract is cheaper.

    Either way as long as you kept 1, i think you could upgrade the farm and still have an elite BP next yr.

    If they are out of it at the deadline i would hope they would listen on any BP piece except Loaisiga.

  14. #704
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    Final line on Zack Britton:

    1 ip, 0 h, 0 r, 1 bb, 0 k, 10 pitches, 5 strikes.

    Overall rehab assignment with SWB and Somerset:

    5 g, 4.1 ip, 5 h, 6 r, 6 er, 3 bb, 5 k, 2 hr

    Zack Britton was 92-94 with the sinker, which he threw nine times, and 78 on the breaker, which he threw once. Walked Cavan Biggio on four pitches, but then got a GIDP and L-4.

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  15. #705
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    Jameson Taillon said that during his rehab from TJ he tried experimenting with Spider Tack. "I couldn't even throw the ball with it. It gave me the yips. It freaked me out."

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    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

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