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  1. #376
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    A one year deal with the intent of keeping Rose longer doesn’t make sense, unless you’re telling him that, but don’t plan to follow through, as his cap hold will still be there. Unless he’s signing for less, to keep it lower
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 05-04-2021 at 04:30 PM.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    It’s going to be tough to add anything via FA after this year, unless we do almost nothing. It’s not worth waiting. Need to add now, with good players and/or tradeable/moveable salaries.

    Unless you rather go with all minimal length deals, or mercenary additions, then do it all over again. Main thing going to be the obvious that we will want to keep Randle, his hold will be 30M regardless, unless we are extending him for less
    correct and exactly the point , at some point you have to use the cap, and waiting you could lose a lot of players that got your here then get less when we do use it.

    and RJ keeps going up as well, at some point you can't have stability on one and done deals. These guys are playing for the future they are no playing like they are playing for their next deal and being selfish at all.

    That is the best part of this roster we have Noel, Rose, Burks, Bully all playing on end of contract yet they are all playing like they are here for the next few seasons.

    Bully with a cap hold of 5.4 to me is an easy call you keep his cap hold and sign him to a deal.
    Rose you have to bring him back at a min of 8-10 pending the years, he may like the 3 year deal and take that
    Burks he is important because he does everything, this guy just gravitates grabbing rebounds, he handles the point, he can shoot long and mid, he can drive, and play defense, i think if you can give him a two year deal at 16 he's a keeper as well. Noel im not sure with Mitch you can keep him and Knicks have pelle locked up for 1.7m and will get Taj back on the vet min, so i'm thinking unless Knicks strike out he's not back and will get some nice offers.

    So that makes it Randle, Mitch, Obi, Knox, Rose, Burks, Bullock, IQ, RJ, Pelle, (Noah's cap) for a grand total of 72m giving Rose 10 and Bully's cap hold and Burks 8m.

    Keeping all these guys leaves 38m for FA which includes Ghosts.

    38 can get you a max which doesn't seem possible in this FA that is supermax territory
    Get you a borderline allstar for say 25 leaving 13m for a nice player (Lowry + whoever)
    Get you two 19m guys which could be a Ball and Powell

    That's ten players which makes sense to follow the suns and add a lowry for two seasons who can really up this team big time.

    I'm thinking if we need we can let Knox go also for a 2nd and free up another 5.4m.

    That all said you only have a 10 man rotation so I'm thinking Burks will be the guy that gets scratched and we are adding Taj on vet min.

    You know what we have flexibility when all is said and done. This can go in so many different directions lol

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    A one year deal with the intent of keeping Rose longer doesn’t make sense, unless you’re telling him that, but don’t plan to follow through, as his cap hold will still be there. Unless he’s signing for less, to keep it lower
    Rose is a great guy but with his knees and age why would he do that? I wouldn't after the season he's having you have to take advantage of it, and he had to fight back into the NBA so it's not even fair to ask him to that.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    A one year deal with the intent of keeping Rose longer doesn’t make sense, unless you’re telling him that, but don’t plan to follow through, as his cap hold will still be there. Unless he’s signing for less, to keep it lower
    agreed. Rose deserves at least 2/16-18m, maybe a TO for a 3rd year.

    I also thought maybe we could do something like 4/24m. give him more guaranteed $ but contract starting at under $6m. Keep him signed throughout Thibs contract. A contract like that though you have to understand he could be completely done the last year or two, but it saves us cap the first two years when we might need it.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    correct and exactly the point , at some point you have to use the cap, and waiting you could lose a lot of players that got your here then get less when we do use it.

    and RJ keeps going up as well, at some point you can't have stability on one and done deals. These guys are playing for the future they are no playing like they are playing for their next deal and being selfish at all.

    That is the best part of this roster we have Noel, Rose, Burks, Bully all playing on end of contract yet they are all playing like they are here for the next few seasons.

    Bully with a cap hold of 5.4 to me is an easy call you keep his cap hold and sign him to a deal.
    Rose you have to bring him back at a min of 8-10 pending the years, he may like the 3 year deal and take that
    Burks he is important because he does everything, this guy just gravitates grabbing rebounds, he handles the point, he can shoot long and mid, he can drive, and play defense, i think if you can give him a two year deal at 16 he's a keeper as well. Noel im not sure with Mitch you can keep him and Knicks have pelle locked up for 1.7m and will get Taj back on the vet min, so i'm thinking unless Knicks strike out he's not back and will get some nice offers.

    So that makes it Randle, Mitch, Obi, Knox, Rose, Burks, Bullock, IQ, RJ, Pelle, (Noah's cap) for a grand total of 72m giving Rose 10 and Bully's cap hold and Burks 8m.

    Keeping all these guys leaves 38m for FA which includes Ghosts.

    38 can get you a max which doesn't seem possible in this FA that is supermax territory
    Get you a borderline allstar for say 25 leaving 13m for a nice player (Lowry + whoever)
    Get you two 19m guys which could be a Ball and Powell

    That's ten players which makes sense to follow the suns and add a lowry for two seasons who can really up this team big time.

    I'm thinking if we need we can let Knox go also for a 2nd and free up another 5.4m.

    That all said you only have a 10 man rotation so I'm thinking Burks will be the guy that gets scratched and we are adding Taj on vet min.

    You know what we have flexibility when all is said and done. This can go in so many different directions lol
    Knowing the mentality the coach (and this team) have, I just don’t see any possibility we sit still, waiting for some future possibility. Keep who we want, give them reasonable deals, maybe with some option years. Sign 2 large-ish FAs now. Extend Randle, get that out of the way, maybe at a slight savings for doing it early. Go to war next season, and see what we have

    Let the chips fall where they may, maybe some trade possibilities pop up, and we figure it out then. Maybe explore the option of trading a 1st for one in a later draft, with a sweetener for us, as having 2 first rounders that likely won’t play isn’t helping much. And would keep that asset at higher value in a package moving forward

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Knowing the mentality the coach (and this team) have, I just don’t see any possibility we sit still, waiting for some future possibility. Keep who we want, give them reasonable deals, maybe with some option years. Sign 2 large-ish FAs now. Extend Randle, get that out of the way, maybe at a slight savings for doing it early. Go to war next season, and see what we have

    Let the chips fall where they may, maybe some trade possibilities pop up, and we figure it out then. Maybe explore the option of trading a 1st for one in a later draft, with a sweetener for us, as having 2 first rounders that likely won’t play isn’t helping much. And would keep that asset at higher value in a package moving forward
    And that’s why the coach got fired from his last job when he had GM duties as well.

    It’s not his decision to make and I hope the front office keeps the bigger picture in mind. If reports from last offseason are any indication, I can’t see Brock Aller going for that at all. They sided with him this time around (and it worked), let’s see what happens his upcoming offseason.

    I’m fine with anything they do aside from ruining their last foreseeable chance to take a significant leap.

    They are a four seed now without making those kinds of moves. Is doing all of that going to put them in the conversation with the Nets, Bucks and Sixers? What about a fully healthy Miami team next year that will also have room to make one decent sized move?

    Improvement is fine and they should not sit around and do nothing. It’s just not worth going all in this offseason to basically be a better team while stuck in the same place on the totem pole. The competition has to be kept in mind...can’t just build in a vacuum.

    I don’t disagree with making any one or two of the moves you listed. They just can’t make all of them. That puts them in a similar situation as signing Ball and DeRozan.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    And that’s why the coach got fired from his last job when he had GM duties as well.

    It’s not his decision to make and I hope the front office keeps the bigger picture in mind. If reports from last offseason are any indication, I can’t see Brock Aller going for that at all. They sided with him this time around (and it worked), let’s see what happens his upcoming offseason.

    I’m fine with anything they do aside from ruining their last foreseeable chance to take a significant leap.

    They are a four seed now without making those kinds of moves. Is doing all of that going to put them in the conversation with the Nets, Bucks and Sixers? What about a fully healthy Miami team next year that will also have room to make one decent sized move?

    Improvement is fine and they should not sit around and do nothing. It’s just not worth going all in this offseason to basically be a better team while stuck in the same place on the totem pole. The competition has to be kept in mind...can’t just build in a vacuum.

    I don’t disagree with making any one or two of the moves you listed. They just can’t make all of them. That puts them in a similar situation as signing Ball and DeRozan.
    I’ve spoken a lot about the types of moves I’d make. Derozan isn’t one of them.

    I like the 2 signing approach, as long as they are moves/contracts that make sense. That obviously improve the team. And aren’t anchors that we cannot get out of if we need to

    The dangerous thing, is sitting back, and assuming that if a big target becomes available, we are somehow the leaders to get it done. If someone like that becomes available, you can bet other teams will also figure out how to make the move too

    Not to beat the horse further, but signing guys when they were available at lesser amounts would have set us up further. Guys that make us better now, and that would be attractive as a part of a package and helping match salary for a bigger deal. We can still look to go that route
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 05-04-2021 at 05:24 PM.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I’ve spoken a lot about the types of moves I’d make. Derozan isn’t one of them.

    I like the 2 signing approach, as long as they are moves/contracts that make sense. That obviously improve the team. And aren’t anchors that we cannot get out of if we need to

    The dangerous thing, is sitting back, and assuming that if a big target becomes available, we are somehow the leaders to get it done. If someone like that becomes available, you can bet other teams will also figure out how to make the move too

    Not to beat the horse further, but signing guys when they were available at lesser amounts would have set us up further. Guys that make us better now, and that would be attractive as a part of a package and helping match salary for a bigger deal. We can still look to go that route
    I agree that they can’t just sit around and do nothing. I just think there’s a way to accomplish everything and that they shouldn’t ruin their chances before it happens.

    Some advantages they have:

    Up and coming, already good team
    Only big market team left
    Cap space
    Draft assets
    WWW (literally what he’s known for doing)

    That’s why I’m more confident this time around in comparison to previous years. The competition won’t be as stiff. They have more money than any other team and they can outbid every team except OKC in a trade. They are in an advantageous position for once.

  9. #384
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    Nerlens Noel (sprained left ankle) is questionable for Wednesday's game vs. Denver.
    Norvel Pelle is questionable for Wednesday's game against the Nuggets due to a sprained right ankle.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I agree that they can’t just sit around and do nothing. I just think there’s a way to accomplish everything and that they shouldn’t ruin their chances before it happens.

    Some advantages they have:

    Up and coming, already good team
    Only big market team left
    Cap space
    Draft assets
    WWW (literally what he’s known for doing)

    That’s why I’m more confident this time around in comparison to previous years. The competition won’t be as stiff. They have more money than any other team and they can outbid every team except OKC in a trade. They are in an advantageous position for once.
    so i'm not following the difference between what you are saying and shady is saying?

    We have the cap and if a FA is available that makes sense you go for it. Now not everyone is going to agree with what makes sense.
    I think we all know that Bully and Rose will be back and we all have a good idea for what value and 2m is not changing what anyone is saying so i'm not sure why that amount makes a difference? Bully is a cap of 5.4 and Rose is 9.9 that is the numbers you use right now but Bully will get more and rightfully so but take advantage of the cap hold to retain him for now and not renounce him.

    We've all done the numbers and it appears that Burks could be the guy that we lose and possibly Noel. It's pretty clear we will have Taj back and for Vet min and use him much less we all hope next year but he still brings the fire and desire.

    I'm not sure and either is anyone and that is a major difference with this FO if they are going for a Lowry big contract short term or going for a Ball est 18-20 deal , we heard the interest in Powell to go along with Ball, that will run us upper 30's near 40m.

    I'm thinking your being short sided if you don't want to use all the cap and think you can't move players if a superstar wants out? there is nothing wrong with having young talented players on reasonable contracts that can be moved.

    We will not have this cap next year in trade situations bank on it so you might as well sign great young potential players that will either thrive and be here long term or can be moved.

    I'm not saying move these guys not at all but think about it with our picks the attraction:

    RJ, Mitch, IQ, Powell, Ball, add in a vet and picks two 3 of the five and you have a nice trade package for a top notch player. We all don't want it to be Rj before anyone starts that again lol

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJay View Post
    Nerlens Noel (sprained left ankle) is questionable for Wednesday's game vs. Denver.
    Norvel Pelle is questionable for Wednesday's game against the Nuggets due to a sprained right ankle.
    and old man Taj keeps marching along, wow

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    so i'm not following the difference between what you are saying and shady is saying?

    We have the cap and if a FA is available that makes sense you go for it. Now not everyone is going to agree with what makes sense.
    I think we all know that Bully and Rose will be back and we all have a good idea for what value and 2m is not changing what anyone is saying so i'm not sure why that amount makes a difference? Bully is a cap of 5.4 and Rose is 9.9 that is the numbers you use right now but Bully will get more and rightfully so but take advantage of the cap hold to retain him for now and not renounce him.

    We've all done the numbers and it appears that Burks could be the guy that we lose and possibly Noel. It's pretty clear we will have Taj back and for Vet min and use him much less we all hope next year but he still brings the fire and desire.

    I'm not sure and either is anyone and that is a major difference with this FO if they are going for a Lowry big contract short term or going for a Ball est 18-20 deal , we heard the interest in Powell to go along with Ball, that will run us upper 30's near 40m.

    I'm thinking your being short sided if you don't want to use all the cap and think you can't move players if a superstar wants out? there is nothing wrong with having young talented players on reasonable contracts that can be moved.

    We will not have this cap next year in trade situations bank on it so you might as well sign great young potential players that will either thrive and be here long term or can be moved.

    I'm not saying move these guys not at all but think about it with our picks the attraction:

    RJ, Mitch, IQ, Powell, Ball, add in a vet and picks two 3 of the five and you have a nice trade package for a top notch player. We all don't want it to be Rj before anyone starts that again lol
    Shady and I are saying the same exact thing for the most part. We’ve been on the same page when it comes to this subject.

    We’re more discussing the new wrinkle that people are bringing up in terms of bringing most of the vets back and still making a signing in the $18-20 million range this offseason.
    Last edited by smood999; 05-04-2021 at 06:33 PM.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Shady and I are saying the same exact thing for the most part. We’ve been on the same page when it comes to this subject.

    We’re more discussing the new wrinkle that people are bringing up in terms of bringing most of the vets back and still making a signing in the $18-20 million range this offseason.
    and why can't you do that? I've shown the numbers its easily attainable to do.

    More interesting however is what I just posted in the IQ thread, if we do keep Rose, IQ, Bully and RJ, where are the minutes coming from to sign for example a Powell and Ball? The quick answer there isn't so why waste the money. A decision will be made between again for example Powell and Bully you can't keep both and Burks is gone for sure.

    there are only 144 minutes for 3 positions the math has to work if your paying that kind of money. That is why there is vet min deals created lol

  14. #389
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    and what if we do sign Luca, then what? Do you pay 2m in a buyout to sit the kid?

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    and why can't you do that? I've shown the numbers its easily attainable to do.

    More interesting however is what I just posted in the IQ thread, if we do keep Rose, IQ, Bully and RJ, where are the minutes coming from to sign for example a Powell and Ball? The quick answer there isn't so why waste the money. A decision will be made between again for example Powell and Bully you can't keep both and Burks is gone for sure.

    there are only 144 minutes for 3 positions the math has to work if your paying that kind of money. That is why there is vet min deals created lol
    The whole reason they started to preserve flexibility is that it makes things easier. There’s no need to go from it takes two to tango to now needing three plus teams. Right now they can offer a team that’s trading a star cap space, draft picks and young players which are the three things most valued in deals like that. They are in an advantageous situation because of that. How many other teams can do the same?

    They have two offseasons (roughly one calendar year) to get this done. There will be options available now and later because there always is when we’re talking about that level of player.

    I would prefer to see the process through rather than prematurely end it.

    A savvy front office would figure out how to do both.
    Last edited by smood999; 05-04-2021 at 06:41 PM.

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