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Thread: Rodgers trade

  1. #46
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    Iíd liked Gute so far, but this pretty well ruins him. Makes you wonder if Elliot Wolf wouldíve gotten us into a mess like this.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigCheese12 View Post
    If they get rid of Love then Gute should be fired anyways. You canít just say oh letís get rid of Love if thatís what Rodgers wants. They traded up to get Love. Wasted draft picks to get him and then you just send him packing is a really big stain on Gutes resume. They screwed up, period. They drafted a QB 1-2 years too early. Hell even if Love isnít ready to play yet then why tf are you trading up in the first round for a project qb then? At this point you have to resign Rodgers and just keep love as a backup unless you get a nice offer for him which everyone knows we wonít. Or you have to move Rodgers itís that simple. And I donít find it hard to believe that Rodgers would phone it in. Heís already done that once and he got what he wanted. Why wouldnít he do that again?
    Why wouldn't he do it again? He's 37 with a super bowl caliber roster. You onto get so many shots. He's not an idiot.

    The only way you fire Gute is if he moves on from Rodgers and Love sucks. First round picks bust all the time. If we trade Love and resign Rodgers, we're a super bowl contender. You're not going to fire your GM over one bad first round pick when he's built a super bowl caliber roster. That's just foolish talk.

    Drafted after Love was Jordyn Brooks, who only played 30% of Seattle's defensive snaps and wasn't anything special but at least graded out okay. Next was Patrick Queen, who made a crapload of tackles but was truly awful by PFF grading. He had a ton of AJ Hawk type tackles where he was 8 yards downfield and was bad in coverage. Next was Isaiah Wilson, who's out of the league. Then it was Noah Igbinoghene, who played under 30% of the snaps and graded out as truly awful when he did play. Jeff Gladney who improved but still wasn't very good and CEH rounded out the first round. Sure Higgins went early second, but it's not like it was exactly murderers row to pick from.

    What very likely happened is the Packers board fell in a way where they only had 20-25 1st round grades and Love was the last guy available with that grade. And they thought the drop-off after he was fairly steep. And they saw they had a 36 year old qb who was coming off a few years where he wasn't his usual self and has been banged up a few times even if he can play through some of it.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Why wouldn't he do it again? He's 37 with a super bowl caliber roster. You onto get so many shots. He's not an idiot.

    The only way you fire Gute is if he moves on from Rodgers and Love sucks. First round picks bust all the time. If we trade Love and resign Rodgers, we're a super bowl contender. You're not going to fire your GM over one bad first round pick when he's built a super bowl caliber roster. That's just foolish talk.

    Drafted after Love was Jordyn Brooks, who only played 30% of Seattle's defensive snaps and wasn't anything special but at least graded out okay. Next was Patrick Queen, who made a crapload of tackles but was truly awful by PFF grading. He had a ton of AJ Hawk type tackles where he was 8 yards downfield and was bad in coverage. Next was Isaiah Wilson, who's out of the league. Then it was Noah Igbinoghene, who played under 30% of the snaps and graded out as truly awful when he did play. Jeff Gladney who improved but still wasn't very good and CEH rounded out the first round. Sure Higgins went early second, but it's not like it was exactly murderers row to pick from.

    What very likely happened is the Packers board fell in a way where they only had 20-25 1st round grades and Love was the last guy available with that grade. And they thought the drop-off after he was fairly steep. And they saw they had a 36 year old qb who was coming off a few years where he wasn't his usual self and has been banged up a few times even if he can play through some of it.
    But a heads up call telling Rodgers this or not trading up for Love couldíve also helped this situation.

    But they made the boneheaded move on a whim.

    Itís still dumb end of story

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
    But a heads up call telling Rodgers this or not trading up for Love couldíve also helped this situation.

    But they made the boneheaded move on a whim.

    Itís still dumb end of story
    I never said it was a great move and the communication wasn't great either. But we've all fallen in this mindset that the draft is so linear, that there aren't massive dropoffs in tiers and they quality of players available in the late first is always the same.

    Its entirely possible the Packers had a top 15 grade on Love and there wasn't another guy on their board with better than a mid 2nd round grade. And in a draft that was possibly fairly weak, they didn't have callers wanting that pick.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I never said it was a great move and the communication wasn't great either. But we've all fallen in this mindset that the draft is so linear, that there aren't massive dropoffs in tiers and they quality of players available in the late first is always the same.

    Its entirely possible the Packers had a top 15 grade on Love and there wasn't another guy on their board with better than a mid 2nd round grade. And in a draft that was possibly fairly weak, they didn't have callers wanting that pick.
    I see what you are saying and Iím not arguing with you. Just showing my point of view.

    I also see Higgins, Pittman, and Claypool all right there to achieve potentially Rodgersí satisfaction. Iíd love any of those 3 guys as our #2.

    And we would still have our 4th rounder...


    Gute botched it. Sorry. He deserves the repercussions of that.

    And honestly if he loses his job over it I think itís VERY valid.

  6. #51
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    As far as I can see, the only thing Gute did wrong was poor communication.

    What I'm interested in now, is what MLF and the front office really think of Jordan Love. Gute is clearly trying to play both sides of keep ARod for this year and keeping the option open of playing Love next year. Rodgers clearly doesn't like that (essentially playing on a one year deal) and that's understandable.

    I feel like Love had to have shown something development wise towards the end of the year that is keeping the front office in this middle ground of making a commitment. If Love sucked in practice or wasn't developing, there would be no reason to not commit to Rodgers with an extension with more guaranteed money after he wont MVP. They probably should have done that anyway which would pretty much eliminate any Jordan Love plans, unless they truly think they have something here like they did when Rodgers was sitting on the bench behind Favre.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
    But a heads up call telling Rodgers this or not trading up for Love couldíve also helped this situation.

    But they made the boneheaded move on a whim.

    Itís still dumb end of story
    I would hate to say it, but Rodgers has very little business in personnel decisions. In fact, Aaron himself has stated he doesn't seek to put input to the front office either. Sure they could have made a call, but at the end of the day, it's buisness. I mean personally, I don't think a phone call makes that big of a difference. I feel like this phone call story is only applicable to advance the media Rodgers narrative so these analysts can say at the end "and they didn't even give him a phone call." I think the bigger communication gaff is not the fact of not calling him, but it seems there is no communication of when they want to or envision making the transition.
    Last edited by IRNMN; 05-07-2021 at 10:28 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by petrey10 View Post
    I see what you are saying and Iím not arguing with you. Just showing my point of view.

    I also see Higgins, Pittman, and Claypool all right there to achieve potentially Rodgersí satisfaction. Iíd love any of those 3 guys as our #2.

    And we would still have our 4th rounder...


    Gute botched it. Sorry. He deserves the repercussions of that.

    And honestly if he loses his job over it I think itís VERY valid.
    If you fired a GM for making a bad first round pick every team would be cycling GMs every few years.

    If Gute moves on from Rodgers to start Love and Love is awful and we miss the playoffs a time or two, then yes he deserves to lose his job. But that's about the only scenario where Love costs him his job.

    Otherwise, it's pointless to isolate the Love decision. Because you then need to credit him for every great decision. Z and Amos have been great. P and Turner both had one really good year and could still be good. His decision to trade down in the first still got us an All Pro caliber guy in Jaire while also getting us the pick that turned into Savage.

    Gute took over a roster that missed the playoffs. He missed the playoffs in his first year without too much room to tinker with the roster. Then he proceeded to make some big FA changes and went 26-6 in the rugular season and made 2 straight NFCC games. Firing that dude because of one bad pick is dumb, unless that bad pick is compounded by forcing out our MVP. And even if that happens, I say we need to give Love a season or two to play before we can determine if it was a bad pick.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would hate to say it, but Rodgers has very little business in personnel decisions. In fact, Aaron himself has stated he doesn't seek to put input to the front office either. Sure they could have made a call, but at the end of the day, it's buisness. I mean personally, I don't think a phone call makes that big of a difference. I feel like this phone call story is only applicable to advance the media Rodgers narrative so these analysts can say at the end "and they didn't even give him a phone call." I think the bigger communication gaff is not the fact of not calling him, but it seems there is no communication of when they want to or envision making the transition.
    But to your last point, there's way too many variables to communicate that last point. If love comes in and after sitting for a year, looks like Pat Mahomes, then you move on regardless. If Love is awful, Rodgers is there much longer. Or if Rodgers continued on his downward trajectory from previous seasons, you may move on. Or if Rodgers bounces back and plays like an MVP, you may not move on regardless.

    Communication was an issue, but I strongly doubt there's any real communication you can do to overcome that. There's too many unknowns.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    But to your last point, there's way too many variables to communicate that last point. If love comes in and after sitting for a year, looks like Pat Mahomes, then you move on regardless. If Love is awful, Rodgers is there much longer. Or if Rodgers continued on his downward trajectory from previous seasons, you may move on. Or if Rodgers bounces back and plays like an MVP, you may not move on regardless.

    Communication was an issue, but I strongly doubt there's any real communication you can do to overcome that. There's too many unknowns.
    I would agree there are too many variables. I think the organization is trying to ride it out. I think no one in the organization is willing to say even with 90% certainty Love will be future QB1. Still at the same time I think Aaron wants to know he's there guy for more than one season. All inside sources close to Rodgers has indicated he wants to see their committed to winning and winning with him. When ESPN, Fox, etc. don't put their twist in it it really often boils down to this.

    Despite statements in pressers the organization can't truly say we're 100% committed to Rodgers if Love really starts to break out. I donít doubt they're committed to him. But they can't say Love is the guy without knowing because they can't afford to lose Rodgers. I'm guessing we likely see an extension to Rodgers, but the team still not be certain. Because in the back of their minds has to be an extension helps them win now, maybe get a rental guy. But if Love is good, then Rodgers contract is marketable. You get cap space and picks to make the team around him better. If Love is a bust you have Rodgers long term and just have to admit they messed up, but too early to make that call.

    Likely Love showed enough last year to justify their investment, but not enough to move on from Rodgers, especially with no games to look at namely the pre-season.

  11. #56
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    With how the media is running with everything these days how has a Watson and Rodgers trade not been brought up. Honestly if the Watson scandal wasnít there that would be a great replacement for Rodgers. And wouldnít cost a lot of draft capital for either team. Thoughts?

  12. #57
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    Watson is basically untouchable at the moment. I dont think anyone has a guess to where his legal situation is going, so until that's resolved, I can't see anyone looking at him.

    Honestly, prior to the Rodgers trade news and prior to the Watson news coming out, I talked with a friend just theoretically would you trade Rodgers for Watson. You would sacrifice a few years of the very top level qb play but you'd basically guarantee yourself 10ish years of really, really good qb play. At the time, I said I probably would not have done the deal straight up, but it was tough. If Watson didn't have legal issues I would for sure do it now assuming the Rodgers bridge is somewhat burned.

  13. #58
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    I would admit legal issues or not it may be a long shot. But looking at it in a bit of a different light, not disagreeing with some of the other points. I think there are some more layers to the cake if there was any realistic chance.

    One would be, would you want to. I think it's pretty clear the team doesn't think Love is ready to start this season. Now not ready to start doesn't mean he couldn't if needed to be. I would argue that means he's not at the level in his development to jump on to the scene yet and play at the level we expect him to. With no game or pre-season looks, it's super hard to know if any of those throws in practice actually translate to the field. I get tired of guys like Cowherd for example saying they haven't made the move because Love can't play. On the contrary, I think they have a good sense he can play, but the reasons above are not ready to hand over the keys. Rushing a guy can severely stunt confidence and development. With this in mind to the point of Love. If Love is the QB they think he is and some scouts continue to think as well then trading for a QB, even as gifted as Watson is moot. If this portion is true then we're likely going to see the organization kiss up to Aaron until the time comes to peel the bandaid. If Jordan Love is still seen as the potential guy then no need to make such a move.

    Another layer would be, I know the legal issues may be an issue. If maybe you're not 100% on Love but think he will be at a minimum a decent starter. The legal issues make the move almost possible. They could almost take the risk knowing they have Love. If the issues are worse you have Love. If the issues clear up you figure out what to do with Jordan Love, if not you transition to Love and see what he can do. However, because of the next issue, this point becomes moot.

    This being all said, the elephant in the room. The deal on face value makes sense, but in terms of financials is nearly impossible, it would up them -$27 mil in cap space to work this deal out. If you post June 1 designation that would be still over I think -$10 mil and put them -$45 mil or so going into 2022. You almost take away the value of adding Watson vs. playing Love. With handing it all over to Jordan Love you get some extra cap space in which you can boost the defense and get more weapons via free agency to compensate for any issues Love may have early.

  14. #59
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    Yea, Love is the absolute wildcard. We have no clue what type of player he is. I don't think the Packers are all that sure either. If Love is even average, the type of players you could get with major cap savings could be huge. But if he's below average or even worse, then it really doesn't matter.

  15. #60
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    I have to think the Packers believe that Love has it and will at least be above average. If they didn't think that, they certainly should have tried to commit more to Rodgers after his MVP year.

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