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  1. #316
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by flclfanman View Post
    Trading up only hurts when you miss on a pick/prospect. Yes, it's annoying that he does it so much, but his hit rate is so high that it offsets the lack of picks. It does put more pressure on Pace to hit on those picks, but since he's so good at a) hitting on players and b) scooping up late round gems

    https://twitter.com/Jason_OTC/status...93001032060936

    I agree that paying a 3rd was a big price to pay to secure a tradeup for Jenkins, but if that pick loss is offset by another late round hit (odds say it will be) then its a wash.

    People praise teams like the Pats and Packers for trading back to get more picks, but they both have a high miss rate and are bailed out by (until recently by the Pats) elite QB play.

    And sure, there re other teams like the Ravens and Vikes that trade back and draft well, but the goal is the same for every team; hit on talent in the draft.
    Trading up decreases your margin of error. And that's not true that it only hurts if you miss on the prospect. I'd argue it's only a win to trade up if the player you take is substantially better than the other players available, and I just don't think that's very common when we're talking about non-QB picks.

    The graphic you cited surprised me, but I don't know that you can say a high number of rookie snaps means you're necessarily hitting on draft picks more than other teams. It can also indicate that your roster simply isn't very deep, and also Pace has utilized UDFAs probably more than most GMs.

    I've liked plenty of Pace's picks, and he's done well in later rounds in particular, but it's not like he's plucking out all-pros left and right.

    Finally, it's just false that the "odds" shows a late round pick will offset an earlier pick. Aside from the two picks being completely independent of each other, later picks hit at a lower rate than higher picks, so yeah.

  2. #317
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    4,100
    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Trading up decreases your margin of error. And that's not true that it only hurts if you miss on the prospect. I'd argue it's only a win to trade up if the player you take is substantially better than the other players available, and I just don't think that's very common when we're talking about non-QB picks.

    The graphic you cited surprised me, but I don't know that you can say a high number of rookie snaps means you're necessarily hitting on draft picks more than other teams. It can also indicate that your roster simply isn't very deep, and also Pace has utilized UDFAs probably more than most GMs.

    I've liked plenty of Pace's picks, and he's done well in later rounds in particular, but it's not like he's plucking out all-pros left and right.

    Finally, it's just false that the "odds" shows a late round pick will offset an earlier pick. Aside from the two picks being completely independent of each other, later picks hit at a lower rate than higher picks, so yeah.
    I agree it's not common for GMs to trade up for non-QBs, but that just seems to be Pace's MO by this point. I personally wish he'd trade back so he could get more bites at the apple, but he's got that much faith in his scouts and personnel team that he just keeps doing it.

    His track record speaks for itself.

    While I agree tht having more rookies playing snaps doesn't necessarily make it a hit, it DOES mean that he's getting more production out of younger players instead of relying on overpaying FAs (as much) Pace does have some bad FA signings, but most of the roster (pre-covid) was drafted.

    He's not plucking All-pros out of the late rounds, but to get players that turn into solid contributors or consistent starters is noticeable. 1 or 2 is luck. 5-6 is a trend. This doesnt even include the UDFAs he's turned out:

    Robertson-Harris
    Bryce Callahan
    Cam Meredith
    Sam Mustipher
    Alex Barrs

    his eye for talent is uncanny and frankly our biggest asset.

    Lastly, when I said odds I was referring to the likelyhood of Pace getting something with his late round picks. It is true that most teams are less likely to hit on late picks, Pace has been the exception to the rule:

    2015: Adrian Amos

    2016: Nik Kwitkowski, Jordan Howard, Deandre Houston-Carson, Deon Bush

    2017:Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen

    2018: Bilal Nichols

    2019: Duke Shelley? This may be the one year he missed

    2020: Darnell Mooney, Kindle Vildor?

    2021: ?

    Like I said earlier, I agree that sacrificing that 3rd rounder to move up for Jenkins hurt, but if anyone of Dazz Newsome, Khalil Herbert, Thomas Graham, or Larry Borom make the roster and produce, it's a wash IMO.

  3. #318
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by flclfanman View Post
    I agree it's not common for GMs to trade up for non-QBs, but that just seems to be Pace's MO by this point. I personally wish he'd trade back so he could get more bites at the apple, but he's got that much faith in his scouts and personnel team that he just keeps doing it.

    His track record speaks for itself.

    While I agree tht having more rookies playing snaps doesn't necessarily make it a hit, it DOES mean that he's getting more production out of younger players instead of relying on overpaying FAs (as much) Pace does have some bad FA signings, but most of the roster (pre-covid) was drafted.

    He's not plucking All-pros out of the late rounds, but to get players that turn into solid contributors or consistent starters is noticeable. 1 or 2 is luck. 5-6 is a trend. This doesnt even include the UDFAs he's turned out:

    Robertson-Harris
    Bryce Callahan
    Cam Meredith
    Sam Mustipher
    Alex Barrs

    his eye for talent is uncanny and frankly our biggest asset.

    Lastly, when I said odds I was referring to the likelyhood of Pace getting something with his late round picks. It is true that most teams are less likely to hit on late picks, Pace has been the exception to the rule:

    2015: Adrian Amos

    2016: Nik Kwitkowski, Jordan Howard, Deandre Houston-Carson, Deon Bush

    2017:Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen

    2018: Bilal Nichols

    2019: Duke Shelley? This may be the one year he missed

    2020: Darnell Mooney, Kindle Vildor?

    2021: ?

    Like I said earlier, I agree that sacrificing that 3rd rounder to move up for Jenkins hurt, but if anyone of Dazz Newsome, Khalil Herbert, Thomas Graham, or Larry Borom make the roster and produce, it's a wash IMO.
    Pace can get value with late round picks whether he trades up earlier in the draft or not. I don't see any argument which suggests it's been beneficial for him to trade up as he has. My argument isn't that Pace sucks or that he doesn't do anything right. I think overall, it's hard to argue that he hasn't been overly aggressive in ways that have hurt the current roster pretty substantially. Those misses on trade ups add up.

    Also, I don't agree with the hindsight is 20:20 logic. Whether any of Newsome, Herbert, Graham, or Borom become good players or are out of the league in 2 years, it's not a good roster building strategy to fill your holes with late round picks and UDFAs. The bottom will fall out eventually.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 05-06-2021 at 11:11 PM.

  4. #319
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    In a house in a Coldesac in Lake in the Hills, Il
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    Another simi crazy development.... The vikings wanting fields.... Even with Kirk. Meaning they see him as a potential upgrade at QB. And right now your sitting here with the Rodgersless Packers and Detroit Goffs as the other QBs in division. Gotta love it.

    Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  5. #320
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  6. #321
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    https://twitter.com/bearsfilmroom/st...695138307?s=21

    I canít get over the fact that heís wearing Bears stuff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #322
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    Mar 2013
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    Columbus, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    https://twitter.com/bearsfilmroom/st...695138307?s=21

    I canít get over the fact that heís wearing Bears stuff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    He's been repping Bears and Chicago since he got drafted on IG. He's definitely excited to be a Bear and I believe will be giving everything he's got to prove he was worth the move. Can't wait until minicamp and training camp.


    Chicago Bears Mock Offseason Champion

  8. #323
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    Jan 2009
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    Los Angeles, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaBear View Post
    He's been repping Bears and Chicago since he got drafted on IG. He's definitely excited to be a Bear and I believe will be giving everything he's got to prove he was worth the move. Can't wait until minicamp and training camp.
    I just noticed he has a Bears shirt on too. Love it.

    Itís still hilarious to me how he wears his hats like Chance the Rapper. The man was meant to be here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #324
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    Jul 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaBear View Post
    He's been repping Bears and Chicago since he got drafted on IG. He's definitely excited to be a Bear and I believe will be giving everything he's got to prove he was worth the move. Can't wait until minicamp and training camp.
    The haters are desperate for him to bust because they canít fathom that the Bears might finally have a QB. Itís either 1. ďHeís mad the Bears drafted himĒ, or 2. ďOhio State QBs are all busts and he will be no differentĒ


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #325
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  11. #326
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oBgw0KDVyc

    The anticipation passes in this video got me droolin' man. I think we got a ****in' stud. Recommend that video series btw for anyone who still hasn't seen 'em

  12. #327
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    Apr 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oBgw0KDVyc

    The anticipation passes in this video got me droolin' man. I think we got a ****in' stud. Recommend that video series btw for anyone who still hasn't seen 'em
    The accuracy and anticipation outside the numbers is impressive. I'd always hold my breath whenever Mitch made those throws because they were either late or poorly thrown. Doesn't look like that's going to be a problem with Fields.

  13. #328
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glVUXaRy5PU

    This guy also doesn't seem super high on Zach Wilson. I don't want to do the homer thing, where now I'm all about Fields >>> Z Wilson I have no idea who will have the better career, but I do think he does a pretty reasonable job dissecting some issues Wilson has.

  14. #329
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    Apr 2009
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    Lynwood , IL
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    Bears take QB Justin Fields

    I think he had Herbert as QB8 last year , these scout guys be hit and miss sometimes

  15. #330
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
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    I just watch all these QBs and Fields was really the only one I saw make perfect throws consistently at all three levels. Plus we know heís fast as **** and can read defenses. And heís smart. And heís got a big *** chip on his shoulder because people looked past all the aforementioned traits. Itís just hard not to be excited about him.


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