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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    The ship has sailed on us getting that pick by default, but we have a chance to win the lottery.
    Its very likely the Rockets, Twolves, Magic, and Pistons get the top 4 picks, and then you got the Cavs and Thunder. We have a chance at a top 10 maybe, but it would be like winning Lotto Max to get in the top 5.

    if we make the play in I really think were picking somewhere between 11-14 which isn't bad. The schedule is gonna be really tough to close out the season, so lets see how it shakes out my man.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    - Bring back Trent Jr, Boucher, Birch and Gillespie
    - Get rid of Baynes, Hood and Lowry
    - Take a flyer on Andre Drummond and Jeff Green

    Then your 21/22 Raptors squad would look like this:

    PG- VanVleet
    SG- Trent Jr
    SF- Anunoby
    PF- Siakam
    C- Drummond

    2nd unit

    PG- Flynn
    SG- Whoever your 2021 draft pick ends up being; I would draft a shooting guard
    SF- Jeff Green
    PF- Boucher
    C- Birch
    Please elaborate on why Drummond would help us win games.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I think its safe to assume that ship has sailed.

    I'm curious to find out more about GTJ contract cap hold. If I'm understanding you correctly, it is possible to only have his 5 million count against the salary vs what we actually sign him for? It seems less and less likely that we can retain both Lowry & GTJ other wise.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    The ship has sailed on us getting that pick by default, but we have a chance to win the lottery.
    I mean technically there is lottery ball chance today if it was held that the Raps land there. Just a much lower chance. Still a dozen or so games left. Chance plays a big role (whether high or low probability).

    For bird rights, NBA created a measure called “cap holds” to prevent teams from signing UFA’s with cap space before resigning player with bird rights. There is a formula to determine the number that counts against the cap to retain bird rights which is based on previously earned salaries. Such a formula indicates that Trent Jr would have a cap hold of 2.5 million, but if he met a certain games played and minutes limit, it grows over 5 million (which he will) Lowry for example has a cap hold of over 40, based largely on the high salaries he has earned recently. So there is a mechanism for Raptors to count Trent under cap hold to retain bird rights, then dabble in UFA market before making signing official with Trent. It is the type of cap circumvention the league tries to limit with its system, but the low salary of Trent for his career makes his case one that teams can take advantage of. Which the team clearly knew well when they traded Powell for him
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 04-22-2021 at 04:33 PM. Reason: pressed edit instead of quote by mistake.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Please elaborate on why Drummond would help us win games.
    Well defensively especially on the defensive end he would help you guys out tremendously. I mean have you seen what he averages for a career in terms of overall RPG? Plus Drummond has made All Star teams and in Toronto, he would give you guys a threat on the glass not just defensively but offensively he would just add to your firepower. I mean wouldn't he not?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Well defensively especially on the defensive end he would help you guys out tremendously. I mean have you seen what he averages for a career in terms of overall RPG? Plus Drummond has made All Star teams and in Toronto, he would give you guys a threat on the glass not just defensively but offensively he would just add to your firepower. I mean wouldn't he not?
    Drummond’s teams traditionally allow more points to the opposition when he is on the court vs when he is on the bench.

    Per game stats are a really poor statistic to evaluate how a player impacts a game.

    My question to you. If Drummond impacts the game so well, how come no one wanted to trade for him this deadline? How come only Cleveland would trade for him last deadline? And they only dealt a 2nd round pick to acquire him?

    His per game stats have never matched his actual impact

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Well defensively especially on the defensive end he would help you guys out tremendously. I mean have you seen what he averages for a career in terms of overall RPG? Plus Drummond has made All Star teams and in Toronto, he would give you guys a threat on the glass not just defensively but offensively he would just add to your firepower. I mean wouldn't he not?
    I get what you're saying, but Drummond is the biggest case of an empty stat guy that there is. He just doesn't contribute to wins. Im actually curious to see if he can help the Lakers in the post season. That might be the best place for him as it takes pressure off of him to be a star and just be who he is, a glass cleaning machine.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I mean technically there is lottery ball chance today if it was held that the Raps land there. Just a much lower chance. Still a dozen or so games left. Chance plays a big role (whether high or low probability).

    For bird rights, NBA created a measure called “cap holds” to prevent teams from signing UFA’s with cap space before resigning player with bird rights. There is a formula to determine the number that counts against the cap to retain bird rights which is based on previously earned salaries. Such a formula indicates that Trent Jr would have a cap hold of 2.5 million, but if he met a certain games played and minutes limit, it grows over 5 million (which he will) Lowry for example has a cap hold of over 40, based largely on the high salaries he has earned recently. So there is a mechanism for Raptors to count Trent under cap hold to retain bird rights, then dabble in UFA market before making signing official with Trent. It is the type of cap circumvention the league tries to limit with its system, but the low salary of Trent for his career makes his case one that teams can take advantage of. Which the team clearly knew well when they traded Powell for him
    sounds like a rare opportunity for our FO to take advantage of. Geez theres alot more to this than I thought. Its almost impossible to know what our cap situation is gonna be based on all the different variables.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Drummond’s teams traditionally allow more points to the opposition when he is on the court vs when he is on the bench.

    Per game stats are a really poor statistic to evaluate how a player impacts a game.

    My question to you. If Drummond impacts the game so well, how come no one wanted to trade for him this deadline? How come only Cleveland would trade for him last deadline? And they only dealt a 2nd round pick to acquire him?

    His per game stats have never matched his actual impact
    Well maybe cuz no one was really interested in him even though I can't imagine why foreal. The man on the defensive side of the ball is a rebounding and block machine. Not to mention offensively he contributes. He is a prototypical big man. Everything you would want your 5 (C) to be, he is exactly that. But I guess in that case yeah you right, but then again crazy that he was an All Star not that long ago in Detroit and you tellin me you wouldn't want him on your team? Man is a straight dog especially as a 5.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I get what you're saying, but Drummond is the biggest case of an empty stat guy that there is. He just doesn't contribute to wins. Im actually curious to see if he can help the Lakers in the post season. That might be the best place for him as it takes pressure off of him to be a star and just be who he is, a glass cleaning machine.
    Yeah that is all true but if he were on your team here in Toronto, he would help you get back to what y'all pride yourselves on and that is being a defensive minded team for crying out loud.

  10. #25
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    Bro... Drummond is not a good defender. There isn’t a stat in this world that would support your belief.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Well maybe cuz no one was really interested in him even though I can't imagine why foreal. The man on the defensive side of the ball is a rebounding and block machine. Not to mention offensively he contributes. He is a prototypical big man. Everything you would want your 5 (C) to be, he is exactly that. But I guess in that case yeah you right, but then again crazy that he was an All Star not that long ago in Detroit and you tellin me you wouldn't want him on your team? Man is a straight dog especially as a 5.
    For a price he can be helpful. Teams value playing "5 out" on offense. Players that can't shoot clog the lane for the teams' playmakers. Finishing above the rim helps.

    On defense, bigs have to be able to switch against smaller defenders. Drummond gets completely exposed in space against guards. He is awful on switches. As such, in today's NBA he is poor defensively most nights. He can excel in certain matchups (where his value lies), but most teams can draw him out of the paint on defense with smaller lineups. Drummond isn't good enough offensively to exploit smaller mismatches.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    sounds like a rare opportunity for our FO to take advantage of. Geez theres alot more to this than I thought. Its almost impossible to know what our cap situation is gonna be based on all the different variables.
    Prior to the Powell/Trent swap, Raptors has the following off-season options:

    a) resign Powell and/or Lowry, resign other players on roster, plus have MLE in UFA
    b) let Powell and Lowry walk and have 25+ million in UFA

    After deal, the have the following options:

    a) resign Trent and/or Lowry, resign other players on roster, plus have MLE in UFA
    b) resign Trent, let Lowry walk, have 25+ million in free agency

    The biggest benefit was an exercise in capology.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    Prior to the Powell/Trent swap, Raptors has the following off-season options:

    a) resign Powell and/or Lowry, resign other players on roster, plus have MLE in UFA
    b) let Powell and Lowry walk and have 25+ million in UFA

    After deal, the have the following options:

    a) resign Trent and/or Lowry, resign other players on roster, plus have MLE in UFA
    b) resign Trent, let Lowry walk, have 25+ million in free agency

    The biggest benefit was an exercise in capology.
    would it be possible to do all 3? if so then

    Lowry/FVV
    Trent jr/Powell
    Og/Yuta
    Siakam Boucher
    Birch/Gillespie

    + add a first round pick

    Id be ecstatic.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    would it be possible to do all 3? if so then

    Lowry/FVV
    Trent jr/Powell
    Og/Yuta
    Siakam Boucher
    Birch/Gillespie

    + add a first round pick

    Id be ecstatic.
    I wonder how Kyle's market is going to shape up this offseason, and what his mindset is towards it. Reportedly, he wants $20 mil a year. Before the trade deadline I thought that was a lock to happen. However, with what little teams were willing to give up to get him, I started to think that the free agency market may not be where he wants it to be either. Just a thought.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Raptor View Post
    I wonder how Kyle's market is going to shape up this offseason, and what his mindset is towards it. Reportedly, he wants $20 mil a year. Before the trade deadline I thought that was a lock to happen. However, with what little teams were willing to give up to get him, I started to think that the free agency market may not be where he wants it to be either. Just a thought.
    I think we’ll be bidding against ourselves. Any team with the money to offer won’t be somewhere he wants to end his career.

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